Dear GOD!!

[Lone Kitten]

www.artsofthesamurai.net/ kendoclass.html

[Ganryu]

Kendo McDojo

[Lone Kitten]

Indeed... we have a guy outside work who hands out leaflets... his dojo is his front room with a tatami-coloured blanket put down on the floor - and apparently he teaches "every form of bushido known, including Aikido-te (Wtf???)"

[Michiyo Akimoto]

(snip)

Yeeeehaaaw! Tha' 2005 Southeastern Regional Open Tournament Endins!!:
On the year of our lawd, September 10th, the Arts of the Hillbilly Samurai be hostin the 2005 Southeastern Regional Open up in here in Lil 'Ol Knoxville, Tennessee!!!
Arts of the Redneck Samurai students be receivin' numerous medals and trophies and whutnot.

Congratulations and a slap on the knee to all them participating students -- we all look forward to seeing ya'll agin next year!
We'd also like to give a big hoot n' hollar to all ya'll who done helped with settin up and taking down the tournament and such, and as well all ya'lls kinfolk who be helpin durin the event.

(end snip)

[Lone Kitten]

heh heh! Only in America (not to insult Americans, but it just wouldn't happen in the UK!)

have you seen the pic of the cute little blonde girl breaking a board with her elbow... nuts!

[Morvran]

Wow, Sensei Trussel is studying for a black belt in kendo!

[Anime12478]

I've always wanted to go to a place like that just to see how they teach. There is such a place near my house so I can just go there and see what's up.

One thing I've always wondered is what their reaction would be if someone that practices the real martial art comes along.

[Neil Gendzwill]

heh heh! Only in America (not to insult Americans, but it just wouldn't happen in the UK!)You're kidding, right? Just have a peruse through the baffling budo section at e-budo to discover how many UK martial arts frauds there are.

[joekc6nlx]

I have to tell my sensei that he's teaching the wrong kendo. He makes us wear bogu, use shinais, and we can't stand still to let our opponents hit us without opposition.

He also doesn't let us use live blades, even when we reach yondan.

My kendo is so deprived............ :cry:

[Genya]

Just what is that. They have a sensei who got his firts dan last year ...

[Omnis]

Wow, Sensei Trussel is studying for a black belt in kendo!

That's quite impressive for a mere stag.

http://www.artsofthesamurai.net/senseimcsorley.html

Why does she looks like she came out of a bad anime? Is there even such a thing as the US National Martial Arts Hall of Fame?

[Anime12478]

Is it just me or is the guy in the kendo picture holding the bokken the wrong way? Also, I can understand children screwing up, but the woman with her back towards the camera should have her belt tied better so it doesn't look like it does now.

[KendoPadawan]

Hahaha.... what I cant get over is the photos of the senseis. You've got a rambo, a chinese wannabe (supposed to be teaching japanese arts), and another guy who wants to be in a samurai movie.

Sorry, cant stop rolling around on the ground....

[Neil Gendzwill]

Is there even such a thing as the US National Martial Arts Hall of Fame?Probably. You'll find that there are many organisations with names like that, or "World Sokeship Council" or whatever. They are sometimes run as money-making scams (pay me X dollars and I'll award you a big title), and sometimes are collaborations by the members to make themselves look good. You'll often find such an organisation will nominate many legitimate well-known instructors along with themselves, to give themselves the appearance of standing alongside the people who are the real deal. Whenever I see someone who claims recognition or membership in an organisation with such a title, I'm instantly suspicious. If they belong to multiple such organisations, I dismiss them out of hand.

[Cervantes]

Ok, that website is just downright depressing its so bad.

[Saigo]

http://www.artsofthesamurai.net/senseiben.html I love it he started in 2002 and is now teaching LOL

[Ignatz]

OK. I have seen tons of these threads where everybody does their nyuck, nyuck, nyuck, look at these silly people, they are so bad.
I'm going to be a bit of devils advocate and ask, what exactly does it matter that these people or others like them do what ever it is that they do? How is it any skin off your teeth? I'm not saying that they are "legit" but who cares? Are your arts so pure and true and so efficient in killing that the mere existence of these people is an insult?
At least they are not ninjers.:eek:

[Morvran]

Just nyuck nyucks...though I'd say that in this case, for me anyway, it's a matter of them claiming to be teaching kendo (with belts, bokuto, etc...).

If someone is teaching actual kendo, and just posting cheesy pictures posing in the gear, then it's just for laughs.

[pgsmith]

I'm not saying that they are "legit" but who cares?
Hey John,
Had a discussion with their instructor on-line a couple years ago. At the time he said that they had no real experience with Japanese swords, and no one out there to teach them. But, with all of the Kill Bill and Last Samurai excitement, they had most of their students clamoring to start learning the sword. So, he made some stuff up and was having them do it. Now, at the time I wasn't bothered by it. The instructor I was talking with had quite a number of years of karate instruction, and he assured me they were only practicing with bokken. I urged him to import an instructor for periodic seminars so they could actually learn something, but that was apparently ignored.

Now, as I just looked at their web site, I see that April 15 was "tater cuttin class". And all yellow belts and up, their first cut has to be from the draw. :scared: Now I'm hoping like hell that they are cutting potatoes because they are using iaito. Otherwise, that is a horrible accident just waiting to happen. If they really are using sharp swords, and one of their kids manages to drop their left hand on the ground because they don't know how to draw and cut properly, or loses their sword and it impales one of the audience because they don't know where the danger zones are, then we all stand to lose. The media would have a field day about "unsafe Japanese sword schools" even though they have no interaction with any instructor. This is what makes me nervous about these places. If they are actually using iaito, there's still a chance of someone getting impaled. However, the odds of tragedy are lower.

So, I really don't approve of anyone teaching sword without having proper instruction. It has the potential to have a very negative backlash on me. Gotta say that I've never cared for a lot of the "piling on" that tends to go with these sort of posts though.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I'm going to be a bit of devils advocate and ask, what exactly does it matter that these people or others like them do what ever it is that they do?It's not the specifics of what they do that bugs me. It's the misrepresentation of what they do as something else. If they called their class "Japanese-style swordsmanship" and described it as "learning to use wooden swords in a curriculum designed by our karate instructor", I would be completely fine with it. But nooooo, they always have to imply that they are teaching something they are not. Which reflects badly on all of us.

[Ignatz]

I understand the feeling and admit that it kind of bugs me too. Paul makes a very good point, it is dangerous. So is there anything we, as allegedly responsible people, can do outside of making fun of them?

[tango]

www.artsofthesamurai.net/ kendoclass.html

Kitten,

If you do a search on this forum for "Toni McSorley," you'll see that this club has actually already been discussed before...

[tango]

see this thread here:

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9096&highlight=mcsorley

[Anime12478]

I understand the feeling and admit that it kind of bugs me too. Paul makes a very good point, it is dangerous. So is there anything we, as allegedly responsible people, can do outside of making fun of them?
There are several things that we can do other than just making fun of the website.

1. Make sure that we spread the fact that REAL kendo exists and there is no substitute for it. That is done by giving demonstrations, talking about it in daily conversation and making webpages and giving links for it detailing what it is and where people can go for practice.

2. This one may or may not be considered rude, but it depends on how you go about it. You could go to the dojo and see the practice for yourself. Act like you are interested, but don't give any indication that you are planning to join. If the question of experience comes up, then you can tell them. This could go any number of ways though, but I wouldn't walk in with your chest poked our or anything.

#2 may not invoke anything, so you could always introduce yourself saying, "My name is _______ and I train with the ______ dojo in _____ and I hear you do Kendo here. Is it alright if I sit in for a class and train with you guys next time provided I have time to do so?"

Of course, #2 might be considered rude, but it's just an idea I came up with.

[kendonoobie]

(snip)

Yeeeehaaaw! Tha' 2005 Southeastern Regional Open Tournament Endins!!:
On the year of our lawd, September 10th, the Arts of the Hillbilly Samurai be hostin the 2005 Southeastern Regional Open up in here in Lil 'Ol Knoxville, Tennessee!!!
Arts of the Redneck Samurai students be receivin' numerous medals and trophies and whutnot.

Congratulations and a slap on the knee to all them participating students -- we all look forward to seeing ya'll agin next year!
We'd also like to give a big hoot n' hollar to all ya'll who done helped with settin up and taking down the tournament and such, and as well all ya'lls kinfolk who be helpin durin the event.

(end snip)


:D:D lmao!:D :D

[Michiyo Akimoto]

I think in cases like this, there's not much that can be done.
As with all M/A, students can be fiercely loyal to their school and sensei, almost fanatical you might say, and miss the facts surrounding their own schooling.

One of the greatest things to come around recently has been mixed MA competitions.
Not to say at all that they are the "end all be all", but since they are geared towards real combat sports, in a live setting, with real reputations (and bodies) at stake, their popularity has tended to put into perspective (and question) the differences between what some call "Dojo-do" styles VS what works when confronted on the street.
A lot of good work has been done recently on the subject by military and law enforcement, as well as private consultants.
You might say that "street tactics is emerging as the latest trend (with it's own share of fakers as well)
Still, even with that, there will still be some people who are fooled by these charlatans, and while it may burn us up to see it happen, the only real solution I think is that the student themselves will eventually come around and see the dojo for what it is.
At the very least, they are getting some exposure, no matter how diluted, to other cultures, and this perhaps will lead them to seek the real thing.

[kendonoobie]

two words for that dojo...homo sexual (the one this post was about)

[Ignatz]

two words for that dojo...homo sexual (the one this post was about)
Kid, you are probably the only one in this forum who has less experience than Michiyo Akimoto so perhaps you should concern yourself more with actually getting to the DFW dojo.

[kenshi07]

*shakes head in dissapointed manner* all i can say is that i hope no one dies. Is it just a bad picture or does her sword look wierd to anybody else, as well as her being stoned?

[Michiyo Akimoto]

Let me qualify this:
On Kendo, you are right, as previously mentioned, I know almost zero.
On the subject other Martial Arts, I have a lifetime of experience to draw upon.
I've been in more real fights that a word-twisting crusted old wanna-be-tough guy like yourself can ever dream of.
Let the kid say what he wants, and keep your comments to the things you know best, like insults, Kendo, and dealing with the low-life scum that a career of defending has smeared off onto yourself.

[Ignatz]

I've been in more real fights that a word-twisting crusted old wanna-be-tough guy like yourself can ever dream of.

I'll bet you got punched out a lot.
I have never thought that getting into a lot of fights was much to be proud of.

[Michiyo Akimoto]

I'll bet you got punched out a lot.
I have never thought that getting into a lot of fights was much to be proud of.

Yes. "punched" lots, but "out" only twice.
My youth was engaged in serving Uncle Sam, bouncing, and guarding people who mostly deserved to get smacked themselves, most of them connected in some way or another to your profession, so let's just say I'm "jaded" on that matter. And it does catch up with you the older you get.

You are right. It isn't anything to be proud of, and in hindsight, it was a fairly stupid career path, with the only redeeming caveat being to serve as an excellent indicator of what works and what/who is just plain bullshit.

So again, while you are the Kendo expert here, that does not necessarily mean that everyone else's opinion on other matters is invalid.

[Ignatz]

I'm a tough guy and blah blah blah. . .that does not necessarily mean that everyone else's opinion on other matters is invalid.
I think you are just full of shit.

[Michiyo Akimoto]

I think you are just full of shit.

And you are entitled to that opinion.
But It doesn't change things one bit.

[Michiyo Akimoto]

Oh and by the way:
You may want to look at this sometime:
http://www.finewoodcarver.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mmirrorfront.jpg

[Morvran]

Why do I get the picture that you two are sitting out on the front porch of a retirement home sipping scotch and sodas as a resident nurse types your crothety banter into her laptop and hits 'Submit Reply'?

Either that or you're just in love. :happy:

[Ignatz]

No, this guy is a dipstick and apparently has pissed off enough people to accumulate more neg rep points in a shorter time than anybody.

[Michiyo Akimoto]

Why do I get the picture that you two are sitting out on the front porch of a retirement home sipping scotch and sodas as a resident nurse types your crothety banter into her laptop and hits 'Submit Reply'?

Either that or you're just in love. :happy:

:ninja:
Dag nabit!
The jig is up!
Nurse! gits me a fresh one! (and a clean pair O' depends)

Yeah, Ignatz reminds me of the grandpappy I never had...that is, the one who screamed at brick walls and beat mailboxes with his cane before they carted him away to the loony bin...
:D

[Michiyo Akimoto]

No, this guy is a dipstick and apparently has pissed off enough people to accumulate more neg rep points in a shorter time than anybody.

Keep it up gramps, and I'll call the home and have them take away your net privilages.

[Michiyo Akimoto]

This is a pretty neat site:
http://www.new-year.co.uk/chinese/cookie.cfm

Hmmm..My fortune for today is:

Everybody sees what you appear to be. Some realise what you are, few realise who you are.

and

A person is just about as big as the things that make them angry.


CURSE YOU, FORTUNE COOKIE WEBSITE!!!!

....

[KendoPadawan]

I remember back in my joining days of kendo, I wanted to learn a kenjutsu style instead of kendo. However, in my city it was really difficult to find a kenjutsu style, nor in the country at all - especially with proper linage. Until one day, my friend told me he knew a guy that knows kenjutsu. I asked him whether if he knew what it was called, but because it was in Japanese he couldnt remember but it started with 'S'. So I asked him, was it 'Shinkage-ryu' and he said it sounds like it. I was thinking 'No way!' as if Shinkage-ryu would be taught here, so of course for my curiosity I would have to go and check it out.

So I went with my friend to go and check it out and met the sensei. I didnt tell him that I was doing kendo. The guy was wearing white taekwondo gear, instead of gi and hakama. He was trying to show me the jodan no kamae where his stance was all over the place. I've seen my sensei do it, and its a strong offensive position. This cheap ass teacher u could knock him over instant!

He did tell me the name of the style and it definitely wasnt Shinkage-ryu. Because it was a load of $hit, i didnt even bother to remember the name. So u know, I definitely had to ask him where u learn this kenjutsu style from. He said he learnt it overseas and when he came back, he's been learning from books............ hhhhhhmmmm.............

KendoPadawan

[Commander]

heh heh! Only in America (not to insult Americans, but it just wouldn't happen in the UK!)

have you seen the pic of the cute little blonde girl breaking a board with her elbow... nuts!

I have to agree, you wouldn't get that here. Still it is an amusing website.

[JBouch]

Another thing that can happen on top of what Neil mentions is that people will get good at one art and earn some respect that way, then 'explore' other arts and play themselves up as being 'well versed' in multiple arts, when their reputation is really built on just the one. I met a guy at a national tournament a couple years ago that my brother took part in (for isshinryu karate) and he was a pretty big deal in his region, i guess; he was something like 5 or 6 dan for that art. He said he had also trained in kendo and mentioned the names of sensei I knew and had fought, so I thought this guy was totally on the level, until he started up a conversation that went like this:

him: "so, what rank are you?"
me: "I'm 2dan."
him: "Huh. I'm 2dan. You know, I'm lookin' at you now...I'm pretty sure I could take you."
me: "...I beg your pardon?"
him: "I wish we had some gear here, some shinais or something. I bet I could lay you out! (laugh)"

He came back to this a couple times, while granting me many bits of wisdom he had acquired over the years as a student of the martial arts. Yadda yadda yadda, it was a 20 minute monologue. Maybe I didn't pay enough attention, but I didn't really see how claiming you could 'lay someone out' after just giving them a once-over tied into his messages about the true meaning of martial arts.

I've since asked our common acquaintances about him, and they all came up with the same response: (with a chuckle) "Yeah...he's an interesting guy."

[Ignatz]

I have to agree, you wouldn't get that here. Still it is an amusing website.
Please take a moment of your valuable time to read post #8. You might find it to be amusing.

[Commander]

Please take a moment of your valuable time to read post #8. You might find it to be amusing.

It wasn't meant to offend any American's but most stuff stems off from there. Not saying here is perfect but its not as bad.

:)

P.S remember i've been there, some things are outrageous and not what you would find here.

[Anime12478]

It's what makes America great!

[Morvran]

It wasn't meant to offend any American's but most stuff stems off from there. Not saying here is perfect but its not as bad.

:)

P.S remember i've been there, some things are outrageous and not what you would find here.

I know, it's weird...it's like, for some reason people around the world haven't taken to wearing skirts and eating haggis. :grin:

[Greger]

www.artsofthesamurai.net/ (http://www.artsofthesamurai.net/) kendoclass.html

i feel like throwing up... argh, somebody stop teh madness!!

[Commander]

I know, it's weird...it's like, for some reason people around the world haven't taken to wearing skirts and eating haggis. :grin:

It's tradition, being a very old country ;) and its KILTS! argh they are not skirts.

Just to everyone out there, have a great bank holiday weekend!

[Mr. T.]

These "samurai folks" are a sad bunch. I gave my opinion about them a long time ago. And they have become even worse:

Sensei Ben will Test for his Kendo Black Belt!
This spirit is certainly being carried into our dojo this month as Sensei Ben tests for his Kendo Black Belt. On Wednesday, April 12, he will appear before the testing board and demonstrate his skill with the katana. His second is Kylan Shireman. All are welcome to observe; students must be in uniform. The test begins 6 pm. We will most likely be heading out for a post-test celebratory meal so plan on joining us!
They basically admit that at least one of their teachers hasn’t even past shodan. How can you teach if you don’t know the basics?
And now they are becoming dangerous:

Tater Cuttin' Class!
This is a friendly reminder from your sensei that the Saturday 10 am Kendo class (4/15) is a ‘tater cuttin’ class. Please bring either potatoes or apples to use as targets. It is also important you bring your cleaning kits. Be in your shoes and ready to go outside at 10:00 sharp (ha-ha). You may wear a t-shirt instead of your jacket for this class, but you will still need your belt to hold your saya.
Leadership Team members, please take responsibility for having bags for garbage ready to go. You will find them in the first dressing room in the canister labeled “This is not trash”. Also have damp paper towels and dry paper towels ready for post-cutting cleanup. Feel free to recruit others to help you.
I will be out of town this weekend, so Sensei Billey and your various sempai have agreed to keep everyone on their toes.
I ask that everyone attempt all five cuts at least once each (yes, that also means tsuki). Yellow Belts and up, your first cut must be completed from a draw. Once you succeed at one of the cuts from draw, the remainder will be with the blade out of the saya.
White belts without swords will have the opportunity to share, but they may not have the chance to attempt from a draw. If a senior student is kind enough to share their sword with their kohai, the senior student will have first cut.
They will kill someone one day (one of their own:p ). They let a 5th kyu (yellow belt:rolleyes: ) draw a shinken and cut in one fluent movement. They are asking for a lawsuit.

For a the other comments I made about these idiots:
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9096&highlight=McSorley
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showpost.php?p=151602&postcount=31
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showpost.php?p=152086&postcount=38

[Morvran]

It's tradition, being a very old country ;) and its KILTS! argh they are not skirts.

Just to everyone out there, have a great bank holiday weekend!

A skirt by any other name...

And thanks for the weekend wishes...we have an important holiday to honor this weekend. This is our Memorial Day weekend (US). :happy:

[JBouch]

I kind of wish I could see him test...to see what he does, and to see who is grading him. Too bad I haven't bought any kendo pants yet. I wouldn't be in uniform.

[Nochi-no-tsuki]

love how they aren't even wearing hakama or keikogi and that it appears the 'kendo students' in the pic are wearing colored belts. am i really wrong in thinking that there are no colored belts in kendo?

[DarQik]

It's tradition... argh they are not skirts.Aren't we being over-sensitive...

Even my son didn't even bother to argue with me the last time I complemented his skirt (hakama), as he knew I was joking and didn't want to encourage it. I recall the guys dong the skirt and Gaelic language thing in high school having half their fun with the people going, "OMG, you're wearing a skirt!" Personally, I'm not daring enough to put on the traditional family plaid; not that I could identify it after so many generations here...

[tango]

ooo-rah!


I took a world championship in Cancun against the men’s Mexican National Champion. That was pretty good. I’m an 8th degree black belt, which, for a woman, is like being a unicorn. Now I outrank most of the men.


http://www.metropulse.com/articles/2005/15_32/street_talk.shtml

[DarQik]

I kind of wish I could see him test...to see what he does, and to see who is grading him. Too bad I haven't bought any kendo pants yet. I wouldn't be in uniform.Every time I see these, I think it might be fun to visit...maybe setup up a small group tour.

Did anyone else notice the odd wording? "he will appear before the testing board and demonstrate his skill with the katana. His second is Kylan Shireman." Somehow the word second (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaishakunin) stood out to me...

[tango]

interesting (sorry, i'm laughing so hard, can't really type much else...)

http://www.usnmat.net/Rank%20Advisory%20Board%20Members.htm

http://www.usnmat.net/dan_upgrades.htm

Attention Everyone .........
Rank is a valuable tool of our trade. As you are aware there are many instructors that give themselves whatever rank or pay big money to mail order organizations to obtain a rank or belt of their choice. This happens daily!

We agree it should not be this way. However, there is nothing like Authenticity!! That's Us, the Alliance. We do not grant rank to anyone! Each candidate must meet certain requirements before we will authorize rank. Our International Board of Advisors must all agree before ranks are bestowed.
[...]
Be aware: The information you provide regarding your background and training will be researched and verified.
Our Board of Review accept all styles, Traditional and American Free Style.


What we need from you (for dan upgrade)
http://www.usnmat.net/Documents/Rank%20Upgrade%20What%20We%20Need%20from%20you.pdf

What we will provide for you
http://www.usnmat.net/Documents/Rank%20Upgrade%20What%20We%20will%20provide%20you. pdf

Rank Upgrade Application (part of What We Need From You)
http://www.usnmat.net/Documents/RANK%20UPGRADING%20INFORMATION.pdf

Benefits of Joining the Alliance:

Alliance Benefits:

*You'll receive discounts at events and functions

*You'll receive an Alliance Patch

*You'll receive Official Alliance Membership Diplomas

*You'll be included in all mailings...etc.

*Your participation recorded for "Points"/Banquet

~NO POLITICS~

Alliance, a Fraternal Order of Brotherhood/Sisterhood unity within all Styles & Systems.

A network that includes everyone! All Schools...all members

Our goals achieved yearly due to Alliance memberships

If you're current...Great!

If not...register today!

Any questions call 765-939-0780

Dr. Jim Thomas

~President~



Who is Dr Jim Thomas? Of course, he's the founder of the "USA Martial Arts Hall of Fame"
http://www.streetsmart.50megs.com/photo6.html

Here's a doozy:
http://www.usnmat.net/index.html

The U.S.A. Martial Arts Hall of Fame was originally designed in the mid 70’s as a service to Karate practitioners with the U.S.K.A. the under co-creators Grand Master Robert Trias and Jim Thomas. During this period, there were no other ‘Hall of Fame’ types anywhere except the well-known Black Belt magazines-Black Belt “Hall of Fame”. After the passing of Grand Master Trias, student & co-creator Dr. Jim Thomas of the U.S.A. Martial Arts Hall of Fame decided to take this “Hall of Fame” to another level. In 1992, the all-new U.S.A. Martial Arts Hall of Fame began.

“Hall of Fame” is almost out of reach to most…unless of course you are a ‘Big Name’. However, you do not have to be a big name or in the movies to be good or admired! In most cases most don’t realize the duties what the duties are of the Instructor…a parent role, big brother/sister, counselor…they have to put on happy faces even when they are ill or under stress. Some work crazy hours or 2, 3 or even 4 jobs, it cost some financial distress, 2nd mortgages even some marriages and family difficulties plus more. People have no clue how much Instructors sacrifice!! We do at the U.S.A. Martial Arts “Hall of Fame”!!

For more details and or an Induction / Registration Packet to be sent:

Please call
Dr. Jim Thomas

765-939-0780


This isn't just a McDojo... It's a McFederation! ... a McOnglomerate! ...

[pgsmith]

heh heh! Only in America (not to insult Americans, but it just wouldn't happen in the UK!)
You're probably right Kitten. You folks over there just do things differently ... like resurrecting the samurai! :D
http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24326

[Commander]

Aren't we being over-sensitive...

Even my son didn't even bother to argue with me the last time I complemented his skirt (hakama), as he knew I was joking and didn't want to encourage it. I recall the guys dong the skirt and Gaelic language thing in high school having half their fun with the people going, "OMG, you're wearing a skirt!" Personally, I'm not daring enough to put on the traditional family plaid; not that I could identify it after so many generations here...

Well Scottish people get offended if you call us English or say we wear skirts, thats why it is called a kilt.

Just the same as i dont call southerners yankees cos i know it offends..

[Michiyo Akimoto]

Sorry I called you all Skirt-wearin' caber tossers.
I like golf though.. thanks for that!

[Lone Kitten]

You're probably right Kitten. You folks over there just do things differently ... like resurrecting the samurai! :D
http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24326

Ok... I give in here! Apparently there is (or was) a dojo near here that were a bit micky mouse... my sensei and a couple of big guys went - their "grand master" refused to fence because it was "unbecoming of a teacher" or something :laugh: and then stood by and let some guy tsuki our sensei in his bad (as in had just returned after surgery on it) shoulder... and said it was all his fault because she wasn't doing kamae properly (their version of kamae was pretty much the same... just involved bouncing their shinai off the floor before every cut... tits!)

I heartily apologise for the american slur - It's just that i spent two weeks in tokyo rooming with a group of preppy cheerleaders.... the torment... if i hear "okaaaay! lets go!" in that happy cherpy way again i'll vomit

It could be worse I suppose... there could be a US version of the Eurovision song contest, although i rather like this year's winner!:evil:

[pgsmith]

I heartily apologise for the american slur ...
No offense taken, you're absolutely correct that they have a tendency to run rampant over here. Just couldn't help twitting you a bit about the "just wouldn't happen here" part. :D

[Lone Kitten]

hey hey - I come from yorkshire (no flat-cap-and-whippet jokes please) - and we're God's own folk from God's own county... i'm narrow minded and proud of it!

do the americans actually know what the eurovision song contest is?

[Ignatz]

Well Scottish people get offended if you call us English or say we wear skirts, thats why it is called a kilt.

Just the same as i dont call southerners yankees cos i know it offends..
But apparently during your week in the U.S. you didn't learn that the confederate battle flag, the symbol of slavery, is one of the most offensive symbols there is.

[Commander]

But apparently during your week in the U.S. you didn't learn that the confederate battle flag, the symbol of slavery, is one of the most offensive symbols there is.

Well why is it still flown in some places then? I saw pleanty of them when i was there, travelling around.

[Lone Kitten]

true... i've seen loads on TV (I haven't been to the US)

I wouldn't take the mickey out of the scots... they might invade :sily:

[Ignatz]

Well why is it still flown in some places then? I saw pleanty of them when i was there, travelling around.
Only in the home of the sneaky, treacherous, traitors in the south.

[Commander]

Only in the home of the sneaky, treacherous, traitors in the south.

Oh, that has changed my view completely then, i was told it was just a "battle flag"

God, thats terrible.

[Lone Kitten]

ah... that's where it was!

[Commander]

true... i've seen loads on TV (I haven't been to the US)

I wouldn't take the mickey out of the scots... they might invade :sily:

Aye so watch it! :p

[Lone Kitten]

Aye so watch it! :p

hey, William Wallace invaded York... you lot might get ideas above your stations gain and decide to have another crack!:lick:

[Commander]

hey, William Wallace invaded York... you lot might get ideas above your stations gain and decide to have another crack!:lick:

Um, nope. We've got independance now, since England tried to claim Scotland :p

We have no need to envade. Quite happy with the size of our nation.

;)

[Morvran]

Well why is it still flown in some places then? I saw pleanty of them when i was there, travelling around.

Hehe...that would be impossible to explain if you're not 'from 'round here'.

But Ignatz, I heartily disagree about the confederate flag being a symbol of slavery. I *would* agree that some people view it as such, but that flag means so many different things to so many different people that it would be unfair to label it as a symbol of slavery. For many, many people it's a symbol of the past. A cultural symbol of resistance to northern aggression.

I'm as 'yankee' as they come, but I would never be offended by that flag in and of itself...only by some of the people that choose to fly it.

[DarQik]

Well why is it still flown in some places then? I saw pleanty of them when i was there, travelling around.What you're missing are the current rules of decency--they've been changing regularly. Finding things to be offended over has become a national pastime...

I'm just young enough to recall life before everything became politically correct. Back then the Navy Jack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_flag) was just some historical relic that southern people considered part of their heritage--like kilts to the Scotts and Irish.

Political correctness is now involved in everything. The rules seem to change weekly, if not monthly. Personally, I think it's stupid, but then again since I'm a male anglo-saxon/caucasian, and apparently I'm to blame for all the evils in the world... Uh oh, bordering into politics, I should just bite my tongue...

[Ignatz]

I'm as 'yankee' as they come, but I would never be offended by that flag in and of itself...only by some of the people that choose to fly it.
Who flies that flag? Rocket surgeons? Astrophysicists? Bishops? Nope, usually flown by white trash racists who think that looking down on blacks somehow raises their own esteem.
Symbol of the past? What past? The history of the Confederacy was one of slavery (supported by the UK too) A cultural symbol of resistance to northern agression? Wow, you have been living south of the mason dixon line too long.
They say that it is not the winner it is the one who defines the facts and this "war of northern agression" is a great example of that.
The inescapeable fact is that the south depended upon slavery. I lived in N.C. for 10 years and it is my opinion that racism is still alive and well, just sneakier and without the lynchings (which were still going strong when I was a teenager.)
Thus part of my rant.

[ScottUK]

Racism has it's place, only if there to keep the English from being European... :D

[Morvran]

Who flies that flag? Rocket surgeons? Astrophysicists? Bishops? Nope, usually flown by white trash racists who think that looking down on blacks somehow raises their own esteem.
Symbol of the past? What past? The history of the Confederacy was one of slavery (supported by the UK too) A cultural symbol of resistance to northern agression? Wow, you have been living south of the mason dixon line too long.
They say that it is not the winner it is the one who defines the facts and this "war of northern agression" is a great example of that.
The inescapeable fact is that the south depended upon slavery. I lived in N.C. for 10 years and it is my opinion that racism is still alive and well, just sneakier and without the lynchings (which were still going strong when I was a teenager.)
Thus part of my rant.

Oh c'mon, there's as much racism to be found in the North as there is in the South. It's not like the northern whites wanted slavery to end so that blacks would flock to their areas...they weren't hoping for the mass migrations of blacks that were soon to follow, particularly to areas like Chicago and Detroit. And really, the northern soldiers weren't fighting to end slavery, they were fighting to keep their nation whole. They were putting down the southern 'rebels' who had the audasity to say they were sick of the way they were being treated and who "started" a war to preserve their lifestyle/rights.

Many southerners felt that their way of life was being threatened. Yes, that way of life involved slavery. But the war was more about states' rights than it was about slavery.

To say that flag is flown mainly by white trash racists is a sweeping generalizition.

[pgsmith]

To say that flag is flown mainly by white trash racists is a sweeping generalizition.
He he he ... Yea, it is a sweeping generalization. However, it is a fairly true sweeping generalization. The vast majority of people that I've run across that personally display the Confederate battle flag are as racist as they come. Now there are various places where it is still flown as a symbol of the past and of the south, but most people that feel the need to display it themselves are seriously bigoted. And not just about blacks, or foreigners, but about anyone that is different from them.

[joekc6nlx]

I don't think they're that far from Maeda-sensei at TMG. It's possible that they might know about his dojo, but feel "threatened"(?) if they go in.

Anyway, Neil's right, we shouldn't make fun of them.

Ignatz, according to my history professors, the Confederacy seceded due to states rights, which is why they never had a strong central government in Richmond. It's also probably why they couldn't agree on who and how the war should be fought.

[Anime12478]

As far as the confederate flag being flown, it depends on the manner in which it's being shown. Some people do use it to show that they have pride in their southern heritage while others use it to show that they are all-powerful beings.

There is this funny story I have to tell about the state of Georgia. We actually changed our flags twice because the original, which was first flown in the 50s, had the confederate battle emblem. People were angry so the governer at the time changed it to the "ugliest flag in the US." When it was changed, one group was happy while the other felt betrayed. Then we elected a new governer and there was a vote as to changing the flag again, which it was in it's current form. Note that this all happened within 2-3 years.

http://www.sos.state.ga.us/museum/html/georgia_flag_history.html - here's what they looked like

[David]

Man, $20 says that if you went up to one of these people and asked them if they used shinken in any of their classes, they'd be like, "Shinken? We only use real katana! No silly little practice swords!"

I also find the fact that katana and wakazashi are both listed on their Kendo Supplies list, but shinai and bogu are no where to be found one of the most disturbing things I've ever seen in my life.

Honestly, isn't their someway to report these guys or something? This can't be legal!

[nodachi]

Totally legal. Dumb... but legal...

Really the only thing any of us can do is keep posting on places like KWF to safe as many people as we can. When kendo and real dojos grow and people become more knowledgeable about it, only then will other people know what is legit and what is not.

[Mr. T.]

Unfortunally this dojo will be around until one of it's students gets killed or seriously injured and it goes to court because the dojo's instructors endangered their student on purpose. Until that happens they are allowed to teach this kind of BS:down: . The only way to make those folks leave that mcdojo is to educate them and show them the real deal. And maybe, maybe, they can be convinced to leave the dojo, if they aren’t brainwashed already.

[kendonoobie]

(snip)

Yeeeehaaaw! Tha' 2005 Southeastern Regional Open Tournament Endins!!:
On the year of our lawd, September 10th, the Arts of the Hillbilly Samurai be hostin the 2005 Southeastern Regional Open up in here in Lil 'Ol Knoxville, Tennessee!!!
Arts of the Redneck Samurai students be receivin' numerous medals and trophies and whutnot.

Congratulations and a slap on the knee to all them participating students -- we all look forward to seeing ya'll agin next year!
We'd also like to give a big hoot n' hollar to all ya'll who done helped with settin up and taking down the tournament and such, and as well all ya'lls kinfolk who be helpin durin the event.

(end snip)



LOL LMFAO!

[Lone Kitten]

:alien:
LOL LMFAO!
Indeed!:laugh: :rambo: :cool2: :smoker: :lick:

[GoldenShinai]

Did anyone else catch this on the website? It sent me to the ground laughing.

Tater Cuttin' Class!
This is a friendly reminder from your sensei that the Saturday 10 am Kendo class (4/15) is a ‘tater cuttin’ class. Please bring either potatoes or apples to use as targets. It is also important you bring your cleaning kits. Be in your shoes and ready to go outside at 10:00 sharp (ha-ha). You may wear a t-shirt instead of your jacket for this class, but you will still need your belt to hold your saya.

[Mr. T.]

Did anyone else catch this on the website? It sent me to the ground laughing.

Tater Cuttin' Class!
This is a friendly reminder from your sensei that the Saturday 10 am Kendo class (4/15) is a ‘tater cuttin’ class. Please bring either potatoes or apples to use as targets. It is also important you bring your cleaning kits. Be in your shoes and ready to go outside at 10:00 sharp (ha-ha). You may wear a t-shirt instead of your jacket for this class, but you will still need your belt to hold your saya.

I was more supriced by the fact that they know what a saya is:tongue:

[Omnis]

I wouldn't be suprised if they were going up in kyus, not dans. So much for being "bLaCk BeLt SeNsEizzz!"

[ScottUK]

Anyone going to observe?

Why does he need a second? Does he intend to commit seppuku? :)

[Ignatz]

Ignatz, according to my history professors, the Confederacy seceded due to states rights, which is why they never had a strong central government in Richmond. It's also probably why they couldn't agree on who and how the war should be fought.

Sure, they wanted to have slavery in their states and didn't think the Federal Gov. should be able to stop them. We have become much more sophisticated in our prejudice and racism nowadays so it is easier to pass muster in the courts with oppressive laws.
The South wanted to go for the knockout and kept spending major resources in winning battles without a thought about winning the war. They didn't have a chance and Lee and the smart generals knew it but they stayed on purely out of loyalty, not for the "cause" but to their state. Misplaced loyalty.

[Kitsune]

Been reading this post very carefully and still don't know what's the problem exactly. Maybe it's because I'm from Chile and I don't really know who are you talking about or what's wrong withg that web page, but I really don't get it.

Maybe I'm just a lilk bit slow today.:tired:

[Anime12478]

Been reading this post very carefully and still don't know what's the problem exactly. Maybe it's because I'm from Chile and I don't really know who are you talking about or what's wrong withg that web page, but I really don't get it.

Maybe I'm just a lilk bit slow today.:tired:
What it is is that you have people that teach some sword/MA style that probably didn't have any experience in besides reading books and stuff. To the untrained eye, it does look like a viable place to learn a martial art, but there are a few things that have been mentioned in this thread that makes things seem weird.

- The poses for some of the pictures might look cool in theory, but in practice, they look rediculous.

- Gotta be careful for those that display lots of medals

- In the descriptions, they do mention credentials, but then we don't know whether or not they are real things. As Neil already mentioned, these organizations might be real but the real purpose is just meant to put their own people through the system to make things seem legit.

[Kitsune]

OOOh, I see pretty bad then. Thanx for telling me

[Mr. T.]

Why does he need a second? Does he intend to commit seppuku? :)

Wouldn’t that be nice :D

They sell kung fu uniforms, I thought they where playing samurai. :pThey also sell Martial Arts Collectables, probably medals and a place in some dubious Hall of Fame :D The more you look at the site of these jokes, the dumber they look.

[bullet08]

Well Scottish people get offended if you call us English or say we wear skirts, thats why it is called a kilt.

Just the same as i dont call southerners yankees cos i know it offends..

actually.. kilt is something totally different from 'skirts'. kilt before damned english folks decided to make it into 'kilt and plaid' was one long wool that will wrap around the waist and rest thrown over the shoulder, tied around the waist with belt of some sort. normally the worsted wool that is used for this purpose was at least 8 yards or longer.

the modern kilt is product of some english fashion thingy, i think either it has something to do with making it simple for british military or queen elizabeth to make her scottish boys more pleasant to look at. now the kilt and the bit that gets thrown over the shoulder are seperate. still the kilt is made out of 7-8 yard of worsted wool, and held by buckle and strap.

however, more importantly, kilt and plaid shows one's colour, or tartan. it shows ones association to clan that person belongs to. while i was actively playing the pipes with band, i was given permission to wear clan McLeod tartan, specifically McLeod of Harris. as there are folks here who are allow to wear kamon of japanese family/clan, being allow to wear tartan of some clan is considered an honor to some degree (not that most people really care).

if for some reason, one does not want to be associated with a clan, they have choice to wear government tartan, or district tartan. believe it or not, NC has it's own state tartan that is registered with some official body in scotland.

bottom line.. IT'S KILT, not SKIRTS :) besides, can't show off one's ghillie without the kilt..

pete

[Commander]

actually.. kilt is something totally different from 'skirts'. kilt before damned english folks decided to make it into 'kilt and plaid' was one long wool that will wrap around the waist and rest thrown over the shoulder, tied around the waist with belt of some sort. normally the worsted wool that is used for this purpose was at least 8 yards or longer.

the modern kilt is product of some english fashion thingy, i think either it has something to do with making it simple for british military or queen elizabeth to make her scottish boys more pleasant to look at. now the kilt and the bit that gets thrown over the shoulder are seperate. still the kilt is made out of 7-8 yard of worsted wool, and held by buckle and strap.

however, more importantly, kilt and plaid shows one's colour, or tartan. it shows ones association to clan that person belongs to. while i was actively playing the pipes with band, i was given permission to wear clan McLeod tartan, specifically McLeod of Harris. as there are folks here who are allow to wear kamon of japanese family/clan, being allow to wear tartan of some clan is considered an honor to some degree (not that most people really care).

if for some reason, one does not want to be associated with a clan, they have choice to wear government tartan, or district tartan. believe it or not, NC has it's own state tartan that is registered with some official body in scotland.

bottom line.. IT'S KILT, not SKIRTS :) besides, can't show off one's ghillie without the kilt..

pete

Well said Pete!

My clan has its own tartan too. http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp/s.matheson/Origin.SC/sId./qx/coatofarms_details.htm

Charlotte's city flag is actually the Scottish Saltire, or otherwise know as the St Andrews flag with an emblem in the middle. How cool :)

[joekc6nlx]

actually.. kilt is something totally different from 'skirts'. kilt before damned english folks decided to make it into 'kilt and plaid' was one long wool that will wrap around the waist and rest thrown over the shoulder, tied around the waist with belt of some sort. normally the worsted wool that is used for this purpose was at least 8 yards or longer.

the modern kilt is product of some english fashion thingy, i think either it has something to do with making it simple for british military or queen elizabeth to make her scottish boys more pleasant to look at. now the kilt and the bit that gets thrown over the shoulder are seperate. still the kilt is made out of 7-8 yard of worsted wool, and held by buckle and strap.

pete

I recall watching the show "Connections" with James Burke on The Learning Channel. He said that the reason the English changed the design of the kilt was that the original long kilt kept getting caught in the spinning machines. So, they made them change the design.

Oh, and I recall that the pipes were also banned for a time on the grounds that a piper could foment an uprising.

England forever, but Scotland a wee bit longer! Nemo me impune lacessit.

[Commander]

I recall watching the show "Connections" with James Burke on The Learning Channel. He said that the reason the English changed the design of the kilt was that the original long kilt kept getting caught in the spinning machines. So, they made them change the design.

Oh, and I recall that the pipes were also banned for a time on the grounds that a piper could foment an uprising.

England forever, but Scotland a wee bit longer! Nemo me impune lacessit.

Come on the Scots! :D

[Ignatz]

I guess I'm the only person in the world descended from ignorant peasants.:(
No coat of arms, no kings. Of course we had to be quite clever and quite tough.:rambo:

[bullet08]

Oh, and I recall that the pipes were also banned for a time on the grounds that a piper could foment an uprising..

interesting bit about the pipes being banned is that in scottish regiments under british military, officers still kept there pipers. since highlander will not march without the pipes. so the kilt and pipes were banned only from the general public and since the association between scottish regiment and pipe band is something we imagine now days when we think of the pipe bands.

so the damned english played their fine game when they needed highlanders to go die for them over the channel. :) no offense to our fine english kenshis on this board.

pete

[Commander]

I guess I'm the only person in the world descended from ignorant peasants.:(
No coat of arms, no kings. Of course we had to be quite clever and quite tough.:rambo:

Hmm, you must have one, what is you're surname?

[David]

lol

I love how this thread keeps changing between people bashing the McDojo, and people talking about their Scott/Brit ancestry.

[Morvran]

...and American slavery!

[ScottUK]

Hehe, thread drift extraordinaire...

How about that Eli Manning? Is he the next Simms?

[Ignatz]

Thread drift waza is very important.:eek:

[joekc6nlx]

...and American slavery!

Let's not forget that the English kept slaves here when they built up the colonies. Let's not forget that many slaves were sold by their own people, and that many tribes went on slaving raids. The Romans kept slaves, the Greeks kept slaves, and slavery is not something that's unique to this country.

[Commander]

Let's not forget that the English kept slaves here when they built up the colonies. Let's not forget that many slaves were sold by their own people, and that many tribes went on slaving raids. The Romans kept slaves, the Greeks kept slaves, and slavery is not something that's unique to this country.

Thankfully the Scottish didn't.

[ScottUK]

The Scots were the slaves... :D

[pgsmith]

Thankfully the Scottish didn't.
Actually, slavery was a common and accepted part of Scottish life until about the 12 century.

[LNGUYEN]

The Scots were the slaves... :D

Slave with beautiful skirt... Oh sorry, kilt. :laugh:

[Ignatz]

The Scots were the slaves... :D
Maybe at home but as soon as they got to the Carribean and the U.S. the ones that could became slave owners or worse.
Here is a link from Glasgow about this:
http://www.scan.org.uk/exhibitions/blackhistory/blackhistory_1.htm

[Obukan_dude]

www.artsofthesamurai.net/ (http://www.artsofthesamurai.net/) kendoclass.html

An intervention is needed NOW!!!! And I'm only half joking!

[Obukan_dude]

Kitten,

If you do a search on this forum for "Toni McSorley," you'll see that this club has actually already been discussed before...

That's really not a good thing.

[Maro]

I guess I'm the only person in the world descended from ignorant peasants.:(
No coat of arms, no kings. Of course we had to be quite clever and quite tough.:rambo:

Same here. It's like people who claim they're reincarnated - never a servant but always a King/Queen!

[raccoon]

Perhaps we at Arts of the Samurai have better things to do than work on the website and try to impress 20-year olds who think they know everything.

[KhawMengLee]

Perhaps we at Arts of the Samurai have better things to do than work on the website and try to impress 20-year olds who think they know everything.

Sure, trying to con 20-year olds who know nothing takes a lot of time, eh?

[xvikingx]

Perhaps we at Arts of the Samurai have better things to do than work on the website and try to impress 20-year olds who think they know everything.

So that's why you came here and posted the above? Because you have better things to do? "20's who think the know everything" <-- That's cute. Certainly anyone who has only just signed up here and dug up an old thread is entitled to make that call. Go away now.

*Edit: Damn! The Menger beat me to it.

[Anime12478]

Raccoon, there is a reason why we mock your thread here. Trust me, you certainly aren't the first and you won't be the last.

According to your website, you claim to teach Kendo and Naginata, but the description shows nothing of the sort. I really can't say anything about Naginata since I don't take it nor do I know much of anything about it, but the same thing that I say about the Kendo and the rest of the site shall apply.

1. As I said before, the Kendo and Naginata that you teach really isn't the Kendo and Naginata that we are familiar with. What we do has a history and reasoning behind the techniques, rules and concepts. Based on the picture anyways, it's nothing more than learning to swing a sword.

2. The pictures and descriptions seem pretty strange to me. The descriptions really scream of McDojo. You can take a look at any site like yours and you will see countless descriptions like yours that outlines how long they did an art (nothing wrong with that) and the various awards they won which is nice if it's one or two notable awards or something, but then gets fishy once they grow in number. Most notable descriptions would talk about this kind of stuff in a more reasonable manner.

Also, not many of us have heard of this National Alliance Ranking Board or US National Martial Arts Hall of Fame. If there is information about what these organizations are and what they stand for, then feel free to post them.

3. I sort of had a third reason, then I sort of didn't but, in the end, I felt that it is important to say this. When you come to a message board full of people that truely practice the arts like you do in a thread that is over 4 months old with a remark like that, then it only worsens your cause. If you want to state your case, then go on ahead. While it doesn't seem like it, we are willing to listen...within reason.

I guess I should also mention this before I close this message. This is the internet so millions of people have access to any website that exists within the tubes. So naturally, you may or may not get snide remarks at your website. But again, read the thread and see what we had to say about your site, then come up with a response that isn't like the one you posted. We need dialogue people, dialogue.

Okay, now I wasted enough time here yet again. I need to continue on my homework on control systems and aerodynamics before I study for my exam on friday for Dynamics and Vibrations.

[kurisu]

Perhaps we at Arts of the Samurai have better things to do than work on the website and try to impress 20-year olds who think they know everything.

What exactly is a (green) rank in kendo?

[Lloromannic]

This? (http://www.rovang.org/timeline/bigpics/green_ranger.jpg)


i think these guys are awesome

[David]

This? (http://www.rovang.org/timeline/bigpics/green_ranger.jpg)


i think these guys are awesome
^Win.

Alliance was one of the first things I learned about when I started doing kendo. I learned that I should avoid all of their Dojo like the road kill infront of my house.

[nebosuke]

Perhaps we at Arts of the Samurai have better things to do than work on the website and try to impress 20-year olds who think they know everything.

We all think it's great that you have better things to do, it's just a shame that kendo isn't one of them.

[Anime12478]

I googled the ranking board and I didn't get anything right off the bat. But I did do the same with the US Martial Arts Association and I got this (http://www.mararts.org/). I thought that this would be sort of legit until I read the bullet points in the "about us" section and read the information about the Life Membership pyramid scheme.

[rottunpunk]

Perhaps we at Arts of the Samurai have better things to do than work on the website and try to impress 20-year olds who think they know everything.
some pictures of you training in the dojo would be nice. and some comments on what you do (apart from th EZ defence training of course)
this thread is waaay old
im especially impressed with your mister benjamin
a sensei after only practicing since 2002 eh? he must be very gifted :D
:p

[Ignatz]

I googled the ranking board and I didn't get anything right off the bat. . . .
I know one of the people on the board of directors, Ed Burgess.
www.danzan.com/HTML/PEOPLE/burgesse.html
I met him back in the early 90's not too long after he was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease. He was a Judo Godan at the time and his Judo was very, very good. He was teaching at Don Cross's dojo (one of my teachers and a good friend) You can find info on Don at
www.ajjf.org
under black belts, he is AJJF 7 dan and has a series of tapes out on DanZanRyu JuJitsu (I have not seen them but I know Don and I'm sure they are good)

Anyhooo. I can attest that Ed was (I haven't seen him in about 10 years) a legit player. However, and this is a big however, that does not mean that this association is not a ponzi scheme or that this racoon school has any idea about kendo. In fact, the description in racoons web page leads me to believe that they don't know the first thing about kendo.
This is America and you can call yourself whatever you want but this is a KENDO forum and folks here take their kendo pretty serious.

You can't just go to a couple or three classes or seminars and then teach "kendo". It is a lifetime pursuit. I have been doing it for about 17 years and I suck at it.

[raccoon]

some pictures of you training in the dojo would be nice. and some comments on what you do (apart from th EZ defence training of course)
this thread is waaay old
im especially impressed with your mister benjamin
a sensei after only practicing since 2002 eh? he must be very gifted :D
:p

At last, a thoughtful question, rather than the subjective recriminations I had begun to think were required. My thought here is to not have to move the thread to the Flames area.

The Kendo World forum community has of course done us some favor: apparently our web site is not a good marketing device, being stale and all, especially since it does not offer much description of what it is we are doing.

We do Agedo karate (the way of the open door), a Japanese family style dating back more than a hundred years, and each generation adds something to the mix. It is considered a hard style, incorporating elements from shotokan karate, savate, bando, kung fu, boxing, and others. By family style I mean that it is passed down to descendants and kohai as well as being operated like an extended family. One of the pictures I would like to put on the web site is that of me doing pushups in class with my 3 year old son on my back, but I can only imagine how that would be interpreted here. My 3 year old son has had 3 karate lessons. If all goes according to plan, when he is 18 years old he will have 15 years of martial arts instruction.

We do kendo, but our goal is not primarily sport kendo as probably most people here are doing, but we do have and wear hakama & keikogi, and we do use our bogu and shinai as part of our curriculum. We learn kata (forms) that perhaps some of you have heard of before: happo giri, sho dan no, ni dan no, goho battoho. We use wood bokken until we are individually approved by our sensei, then move on to live steel. In my case, I have a very ordinary 440 Stainless katana as my first sword, and a rather nicer pre-WW II folded steel katana. I use one or the other most of the time, as Musashi indicated that a person should not have favorites. All of our kendoka go through Go Rin No Sho (Book of 5 Rings) every year with practical exercises from the Fire scroll. We also do tameshigiri (test cuts) on bamboo, tatami, and also do candle wick cutting (cut just the flame off of the lit candle, using the compressed air in front of the blade to extinguish the fire). Obviously, a good time had by all. Since the sword is seen as an extension of the body, little distinction is made between cutting and breaking - open-hand board breaking is a normal part of classes, as is breaking river rocks, bricks, and so forth. I have my eyes on getting a pump handle fairly soon against the day when I can break that too.

We also do Naginatado. Our Shihan, Toni Sensei, learned all of these things while a live-in student ("uchi deshi" if I spelled it right) in a Japanese dojo. She still complains about barefoot morning runs in the snow. The naginata class is nominally by invitation only, though applications are considered.

I noticed in the older thread that our sensei (no plural form in nihongo) have taken a bit of unwarranted abuse. I would respectfully ask that you consider the time you have spent in martial arts - weeks, months, years? Where do you think your study will take you with 40+ years of effort, as our Shihan has? It is very impolite to be so disrespectful. In ancient times, such disrespect would easily be seen as an opportunity for "tensugi giri" (test-cut on a passerby). Fortunately, we are not in feudal Japan anymore - but such abuse diminishes the speaker (or writer in this case).

Our school is certainly not a McDojo! No student is promised a black belt, much less a contract stating when they can expect theirs. There are no contracts at Arts of the Samurai. Most students who reach 1st Dan took 4 or 5 years to get there. We are taught from yellow belt that we will also learn to teach as well as learn, since one must know a thing internally, rather than just a nodding acquaintance with it, in order to teach. 1st Dan is not the destination - it is the beginning of the journey.

So yes, I get that we need to renovate our web site. And to prevent the brittle people from fretting about whose belt is not perfect, we will of course have to vet the pictures carefully before posting, lest someone should become offended by seeing a girl break a board or someone's belt imperfectly tied.

Sheesh. Are some of you just in martial arts for the clothes?

David

#---------------------------
Pain is fear leaving the body.

[Neil Gendzwill]

A 440 katana is dangerous. The very fact that it would be allowed in your dojo is a red flag that you don't know what you are doing.

Go Rin No Sho is not a technical manual. It only makes sense from the point of view of someone who is a practising member of Niten Ichi Ryu, which you are not. It is often used as a way of making a dojo seem authentic when it is not.

Weapons change everything. Instructors who say thing such as "just an extension of the body" and "no difference between cutting and breaking" are typically bad karate instructors trying to add weapons as another source of income.

"Agedo karate" sounds to me like just another eclectic modern system. Why try to pass it off as traditional when you're throwing everything but the kitchen sink into the style?

[Kenzan]

We do kendo, but our goal is not primarily sport kendo as probably most people here are doing,


I could be mistaken, but I think there would be very few people here would classify Kendo as a "sport."



All of our kendoka go through Go Rin No Sho (Book of 5 Rings) every year with practical exercises from the Fire scroll.


That's quite interesting. So this is sort of your Sensei's interpretation of that book? Is your Sensei part of the AUSKF?



In ancient times, such disrespect would easily be seen as an opportunity for "tensugi giri" (test-cut on a passerby).


I have always believed that titles are something bestowed, (Or made up) and respect is a precious thing which is always earned.

[ScottUK]

David (Raccoon),

Can you tell us about your sensei, and where he studied kendo/battodo/whatever and his level?

Kind regards,

Scott

[Ignatz]

We do kendo
I doubt it. You most likely do something with bokken and shinai and foamy sticks and call it kendo but I'm pretty sure it is not kendo at least not the way 5 or 6 million people in the world do it.
I like the clothes but more importantly I want to get "The Look" as you folks have mastered it. That good old "I'm a Martial Arts Master" look. Cool

[Fonsz]

At last, a thoughtful question, rather than the subjective recriminations I had begun to think were required. My thought here is to not have to move the thread to the Flames area.

.................................................. ...................

Sheesh. Are some of you just in martial arts for the clothes?

David

#---------------------------
Pain is fear leaving the body.
Are you guys for real? Judging by the pictures you haven't got a clue about Kendo, Kenjutsu, and Naginata. You are as Neill described Karate folk lost from the beaten track. There's a certain school in Minesota which may be to your liking they have reinvented Kendo/Kenjutsu and have been known to do tameshi giri without a sword. Bet you can't beat that.
By the way the term for slashing up passersby is Tsui Tachi. And are you threatening us? If so we will report this to the ever vigil Neill and then see who laughs last.:devious::silly:

[Ignatz]

Uh oh. Fonz is on the warpath ooh ooh.
I guess you are still all wound up by the part in Samurai William about the Dutchman with the "Naked dagger in his codpisse".

[Fonsz]

Uh oh. Fonz is on the warpath ooh ooh.
I guess you are still all wound up by the part in Samurai William about the Dutchman with the "Naked dagger in his codpisse".
I think that my fellow countrymen do not come over very well. But then again all the European characters in this epic story are quite the Barbarians if I may say so. At least the Dutch sticked around longer in Japan because they were staunch traders who would sell their mother and their soul if they had one. (What else is new?) "A naked dagger in his codpisse" I bet it would be very uncomfortable and you shouldn't make any sudden movements....
Back to the thread, what do you think of these clowns? Snide remarks about tsui tachi and stuff. As our in house lawyer and voice of reason here, what do you make of it. Can we take action or should Neill intervene and make him go away?

[raccoon]

I could be mistaken, but I think there would be very few people here would classify Kendo as a "sport."


That's quite interesting. So this is sort of your Sensei's interpretation of that book? Is your Sensei part of the AUSKF?

I have always believed that titles are something bestowed, (Or made up) and respect is a precious thing which is always earned.

We interpret 5 Rings every year from scratch, just as Musashi intended. Membership in some organization is nice, but hardly necessary. Ponder this. I do not claim that we have everything right and our friends on Kendo World have everything wrong, just that the world view here could use some expansion. Does an organization have to tell you what to think for you to think it, or can you learn from your own experience as well as others?

Kendo means "the way of the sword." What do you think is meant by "sport" ? Dueling to the death has been outlawed in most if not all countries, so if you are not actually going to kill each other how is it not "sport" ? So if your martial art is kendo, it is so much sophistry to say who is doing it and who is not based on whether the weapon is live steel or a reasonable approximation, such as a shinai or bokken. Musashi used a hand carved boat oar at least once - would you go as far as to say that his brand of kendo is inferior to yours?

Arts of the Samurai does use the padded sword (chanbarra) and also uses the bogu & shinai. I agree, chanbarra degenerates very quickly to something very like softball if one has no kendo training or chooses to ignore it. I heartily prefer the shinai to chanbarra, but that does not prevent me from participating.

oh, yeah. Disrespect is earned. Respect is part of being civil.


David

(foot notes are a cultural gift to you - things heard around the dojo)
#--------------------------------------
It is a sin to die with a weapon sheathed.

[ScottUK]

Musashi used a hand carved boat oar at least once - would you go as far as to say that his brand of kendo is inferior to yours?David, the word 'kendo' generally refers to shinai kendo. Musashi practiced kenjutsu - very different animals.

To read more about kenjutsu (specifically, Musashi's art), have a look at this page on my website:

http://www.heijoshin.co.uk/kenjutsu/

[Neil Gendzwill]

We interpret 5 Rings every year from scratch, just as Musashi intended.Musashi intended go rin no sho to be left as a legacy to his students, not guessed at by a bunch of dilettantes outside the ryu.

[Ignatz]

Back to the thread, what do you think of these clowns? Snide remarks about tsui tachi and stuff. As our in house lawyer and voice of reason here, what do you make of it. Can we take action or should Neill intervene and make him go away?
Well, I have already weighed in on the organization thing. I know one of the people they say is on the "Board of Directors". A real judo player but he has had Parkinson's Disease for about 14-15 years. If I thought they were using him as a shill it would be really upsetting. I will make some inquires.
My position on their teaching kendo, without seeing it and only going on the pictures with the poses and "The Look" is that it is bullshit.
On the other hand, seeing the use of the word dilettant by the great northern plonk god certainly reinforces my belief that granting him plonk power was a wise decision.
Right now I say let the racoon go, he is still humorous and not totally offensive and of course thread drift is always amusing. When he starts repeating himself- - - -plonk.

[rottunpunk]

We do kendo, but our goal is not primarily sport kendo as probably most people here are doing, but we do have and wear hakama & keikogi, and we do use our bogu and shinai as part of our curriculum. We learn kata (forms) that perhaps some of you have heard of before: happo giri, sho dan no, ni dan no, goho battoho. We use wood bokken until we are individually approved by our sensei, then move on to live steel. In my case, I have a very ordinary 440 Stainless katana as my first sword, and a rather nicer pre-WW II folded steel katana. I use one or the other most of the time, as Musashi indicated that a person should not have favorites. All of our kendoka go through Go Rin No Sho (Book of 5 Rings) every year with practical exercises from the Fire scroll. We also do tameshigiri (test cuts) on bamboo, tatami, and also do candle wick cutting (cut just the flame off of the lit candle, using the compressed air in front of the blade to extinguish the fire). Obviously, a good time had by all. Since the sword is seen as an extension of the body, little distinction is made between cutting and breaking - open-hand board breaking is a normal part of classes, as is breaking river rocks, bricks, and so forth. I have my eyes on getting a pump handle fairly soon against the day when I can break that too.
.
that doesnt sound like kendo to me.
we do kata with bokken (eventually, many years in the future moving up to a shiny blade, but not live?)
what you describe sounds more like battodo/jutsu
though am i correct in thinking there is sword work in karate too, like with aiki? could this then not be what you are learning?
as already mentioned, a 440 is a bit dangerous for partner work.

just because your sensei was an uchi deshi, it does not make them a master.
where did she train? for how long was she uchi deshi? who was her sensei? does she still go to japan for lessons? do any of her sensei come to visit your dojo?
am i correct in thinking she is gaijin AND female.
not trying to disrespect her. just curious as to how much you lot know
:p

[David]

though am i correct in thinking there is sword work in karate too, like with aiki?
There is no swordwork in karate. Atleast, none that I've ever seen.

[raccoon]

that doesnt sound like kendo to me.
we do kata with bokken (eventually, many years in the future moving up to a shiny blade, but not live?)
what you describe sounds more like battodo/jutsu
though am i correct in thinking there is sword work in karate too, like with aiki? could this then not be what you are learning?
as already mentioned, a 440 is a bit dangerous for partner work.

just because your sensei was an uchi deshi, it does not make them a master.
where did she train? for how long was she uchi deshi? who was her sensei? does she still go to japan for lessons? do any of her sensei come to visit your dojo?
am i correct in thinking she is gaijin AND female.
not trying to disrespect her. just curious as to how much you lot know
:p


Yes, I did mention that what we are doing and what most of you are doing are two different things, though there is some shared space. Our kendo is based on toyama ryu, (http://toyamaryu.org may be a good reference). I may have mentioned that our dojo style of martial arts is not pretty, flashy, or showy like wu shu, some tae kwon do styles, or XMA. It is functional. For this reason we generally do reasonably well in karate tournaments in sparring and breaking, though some people do not appreciate our kata: they are nearly all modified sword forms for open hand work. We learn the katas all over again with katana and wakazashi at or near 1st Dan.

We do not use 440 stainless for partner work. 440 stainless is a beginner sword. One must learn and start somewhere, right? I also have a folded steel sword made in 1927. I have resisted the temptation to ask the FBI to test it for blood residue - I think I do not want to know.

Our Shihan's sensei was a Japanese man named Fred, who opened his dojo in Montana after World War II. Fred was old then, probably deceased now :o(. She did not have to go to Japan to live in a Japanese dojo - she was there long enough to get 1st Dan at least, so 4-5 years minimum.I will be quite honest - I do not have every detail. I do know that some of her training included 8 years of bando while associated with a professional soldier, but there is a fair amount of mystique here. Conversations with her sometimes include phrases like "the time I got shot" and "what great guys Navy SEALs are". I will not want to get in trouble for telling her life story without her permission, probably ought to knock out a few hundred pushups now just to save time later :o) for as much as I have related already. Yes, she is gaijin and female - If I was 6' tall, 300 pounds and been a green beret I think I still would not want to be on her bad side. Wing Chun was invented by a female - if someone reading this has issues over a person's plumbing, please just skip it.

What do we lot know? I suppose the answer is "not nearly enough". Our most dire issue is probably a matter of photography and website authoring, judging by the many harsh misconceptions that have been put forth. We are very much like any other good martial arts school - we learn by crossing swords together.

I would be very interested in seeing the websites from some of the others represented here. I promise to treat you better than we were treated.

David

heard around the dojo:
#--------------------------------
The only perfect martial artist is a dead one,
because he has stopped improving.

[Ignatz]

. . .Our kendo is based on toyama ryu. . .
Oh, I sooo doubt it.
Somebody get Paul Smith here, toot sweet:D

[Neil Gendzwill]

Toyama-ryu is not kendo. You either study it or you don't. If you're basing your "kendo" on it, you're just making crap up. I'd hate to see old Nakamura's reaction to someone who trained with toy foam swords and called it kendo based on his work.

A 440 katana isn't safe to even swing in the air. The metal is brittle and not meant to be used for working blades of that length, and cheap swords of that nature have fittings that are likely to fall apart on you.

The problem with her being a gaijin female isn't her plumbing, it's that she would be unlikely in the extreme to be uchi-deshi for anybody. People in charge of koryu in Japan are conservative. All her little phrases and vague qualifications are typical smoke and mirrors for a pseudo-sensei.

Just click on my username to get to my website. If you have any questions about my kendo qualifications, I'm glad to clarify.

[ScottUK]

Our Shihan's sensei was a Japanese man named Fred, who opened his dojo in Montana after World War II. Fred was old then, probably deceased now :o(. She did not have to go to Japan to live in a Japanese dojo - she was there long enough to get 1st Dan at least, so 4-5 years minimum.I will be quite honest - I do not have every detail. I do know that some of her training included 8 years of bando while associated with a professional soldier, but there is a fair amount of mystique here. Conversations with her sometimes include phrases like "the time I got shot" and "what great guys Navy SEALs are". I will not want to get in trouble for telling her life story without her permission, probably ought to knock out a few hundred pushups now just to save time later :o) for as much as I have related already.Not sure if you're aware, David - but we have heard this dozens of times from people who have no verifiable history, grades, experience etc. A long gone sensei (who is ALWAYS Japanese) and us lower minions don't know the full facts etc etc. but it is 'on the mat experience that counts'... blah blah blah.

It looks like your sensei has learned a few techniques from sources known only to her and she is passing it off as kendo to her unknowing/unquestioning students.

Do you have any videos that can destroy my theory? I hope so.


Yes, she is gaijin and female - If I was 6' tall, 300 pounds and been a green beret I think I still would not want to be on her bad side. Wing Chun was invented by a female - if someone reading this has issues over a person's plumbing, please just skip it.My iai teacher is gaijin (eurgh) and female. So what? I only have issues with their legitimacy, not their equipment...

Our website is in my profile/sig...

[Kenzan]

We interpret 5 Rings every year from scratch, just as Musashi intended.


I think it may be relatively safe to assume that no really "knows" what Musashi intended. I for one, would never assume to know the mind of a man who lived several hundred years before my existence, and obviously knew more about fighting that I'll ever come close to.



Membership in some organization is nice, but hardly necessary.


I disagree on the grounds that with organization, comes standardization, peer review, and a grounding pillar of legacy, formulated from a genuine, transparent history. This has the effect, but not always,(as in the case of "Made up" organizations) of providing a scope of legitimacy to the art, rather than people just "making things up" to suit them.



Does an organization have to tell you what to think for you to think it, or can you learn from your own experience as well as others?


As the quintessential Kendo scrub, on this subject, this is what I have learned thus far; in as much as I "think" I have absorbed it properly:

1. One cannot, no matter how hard one tries, learn proper or even barely passable Kendo without a legitimate Kendo Sensei (which means a Kendo Sensei who has received a Grade of Yondan or above from the proper Kendo Organization) to instruct you. To think otherwise is a grievous error in the understanding of Kendo.

2. Therefore, on the matters of Kendo, I rely solely on my superiors and teachers for knowledge, guidance, and structure. So yes, at my level, I have a necessity and obligation to the men and women kind enough to teach me this art to shut my mouth, offer NO opinions, do EXACTLY what they say, when they say it, ask lots of questions, work hard, and learn, learn, learn learn. You are right about one thing though, I do learn a lot from my experiences, in that whenever I try to do Kendo "My" way, and not as I was instructed, I always fail. Of course, that said, everyone's Kendo looks *slightly* different, but the basics are always the same to most degrees, with the only fluctuations I have seen are of those vastly above my skill level.



Kendo means "the way of the sword." What do you think is meant by "sport" ? Dueling to the death has been outlawed in most if not all countries, so if you are not actually going to kill each other how is it not "sport" ?



I think Kendo means many things to many people.
And even to some, it may be merely a sport, not unlike soccer or football.
But to dismiss it as such casually is to miss something quite rare, unique and special in this world.
To me, I am starting to understand that as I progress, while Kendo may look like mere "sword fighting" from the outside, but there is something very deep, very profound, and ultimately for me, it boils down to one thing. Developing my mind, something I personally have found in no other martial art.

[ScottUK]

I think it may be relatively safe to assume that no really "knows" what Musashi intended.I'm fairly sure Musashi sensei didn't intend this (http://www.artsofthesamurai.net/images/p3138071.jpg).

The next time I am at Musashizuka I will make the appropriate apologies... :)

[KhawMengLee]

Yes, I did mention that what we are doing and what most of you are doing are two different things, though there is some shared space. Our kendo is based on toyama ryu, (http://toyamaryu.org may be a good reference). I may have mentioned that our dojo style of martial arts is not pretty, flashy, or showy like wu shu, some tae kwon do styles, or XMA. It is functional.



Really? So I guess 'Sensei' Mindi here (http://www.artsofthesamurai.net/images/p3138071.jpg) is preparing to take of into outer space or something eh?

And I suppose 'Sensei' Mcburger is trying out her "Stop! in the name of love..." Waza here (http://www.artsofthesamurai.net/images/p3138071.jpg).

Before you try to spin anymore of your crap please at least try to learn how to wear your hakama properly...

p.s.

Nice Uniform on 'Sensei' Billey...all those pretty braids and whatnot...

[Kenzan]

Our school is certainly not a McDojo! No student is promised a black belt,

Your'e right, it's not a McDojo...

IT's.......AMWAY!!!!!!
RUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!
:D

From http://www.artsofthesamurai.net/announce.html

Dojo Bucks are Back!
Starting in September, we will begin the annual Dojo Bucks distribution. As usual, you will have the opportunity to earn dojo bucks through regular attendance, by bringing guests, and by signing up new students. Students earn $25 for each class attended, $100 for bringing a guest to a class or a dojo event, and $500 for signing up a new student. Bonus bucks ($100) are given to those with eight or more classes attended per month in either agedo or kendo, or both (you could earn an extra $200 a month)! Dojo Bucks are good during our Halloween party/auction. The costume theme for 2006 will be animation. If it’s been in any type of cartoon, it’s fair game. Use your imagination and start planning for the dojo’s favorite party! As usual, please bring a pot-luck contribution and a baked good for the cake walk. Guests and family are welcome to attend.

[KhawMengLee]

Toyama-ryu is not kendo. You either study it or you don't. If you're basing your "kendo" on it, you're just making crap up. I'd hate to see old Nakamura's reaction to someone who trained with toy foam swords and called it kendo based on his work.


Hahaha...Ole' Dave here reminds me of Matahachi in Musashi...where he walks around trying to bullshit he's Sasaki Kojiro and then gets caught out by someone that know's the Ryu he claims to be of and the real Kojiro.

Mate, stop the bullshit...you're only digging a deeper hole for yerself...:D

[Paikea]

I have resisted the temptation to ask the FBI to test it for blood residue For that, I believe they may be grateful. They're kinda busy...

David, you are being taken for a ride.

[Ignatz]

. . . "what great guys Navy SEALs are". . . .
She must be talking about the other navy seals.;)

[Paburo]

raccoon, cant you just change the name of your dojo to 'samurai swordmanship inspired karate kai' or something like that?

reading this post, i think it just boils down to you guys using the name kendo on your site and art, when it's clear it has no relation whatsoever to real kendo as the IKF/FIK, ZNKR, and the rest of the world knows it.

really mate, no matter how many links and associations you try to make here and there it won't work. it just doesnt work that way. if you want to teach kendo at your school, get a real kendo sensei. i'm sure there are some in TN. otherwise you should really consider changing the name of your dojo and art to something more accurate to what you guys really do.

if you don't, you guys will be labeled as a mcdojo. here, there, worldwide.

aaaaaand just like honniden matahachi almost lost his head trying to pretend he was sasaki kojiro when he had no friggin clue about kanemaki jisai or chujo-ryu :D

[ScottUK]

if you don't, you guys will be labeled as a mcdojo. here, there, worldwide.Yep, another one for E-Budo's 'Bad Budo' list. Unless, of course, your sensei has verifiable grades?

[kurisu]

I would be very interested in seeing the websites from some of the others represented here. I promise to treat you better than we were treated.

http://www.kendo-pnkf.org/

http://www.auskf.info/

http://www.kendo-fik.org/english-page/english-top-page.html

[Ignatz]

try this one:

www.kenshin-kai.com

[Bennosuke]

I don't mean to attack you, but to bring up a point. In the picture of the lady with the sword above her head, what is she doing? What is the name of the technique? Why is she doing it? I've never seen a Toyama demonstration, but I can only assume that there is no position like that.

[ScottUK]

No, there isn't... :) but we all knew that anyway. Toyama Ryu my arse.

[raccoon]

I don't mean to attack you, but to bring up a point. In the picture of the lady with the sword above her head, what is she doing? What is the name of the technique? Why is she doing it? I've never seen a Toyama demonstration, but I can only assume that there is no position like that.

greetings,

Has anyone noticed that I respond mostly to the ones that treat me reasonably well? Not that everyone is being a putz, but I simply cannot respond to all of them since I have apparently turned over a hornet's nest.

What Sensei is doing in this picture is posing for a camera. It is a high guard position, don't know a japanese name for it. The next thing after that might be a tsuki over something, for example. Have you ever noticed how particularly difficult it is to photograph martial arts in such a way that no one can make fun of it? If the point is to put down something someone else is doing, there is always a way. It gets tiring after a while.

I will look at the various links that have been provided.

David

[Bennosuke]

I'll let others with more experience talk about why that would not be a good block. I will say that there should be no reason for her hand to be out like that. That just screams suki to me.
Wold you please post more about the family style that you have learned. I think it would be enlightening for both parties to know more about the orgin of your ryu.

[Kenzan]

This is taken from their info page on Kendo.

http://www.artsofthesamurai.net/kendoclass.html

Our Kendo classes are safe, fun, and educational. Students learn the history of Japanese Swordsmanship, beginning with the basic cuts and stances. All beginners work with a wooden bokken until they have achieved enough skill that the instructor recommends a live blade. Both beginning and advanced kendo students utilize Chanbarra (a state-of-the-art soft weapon) to practice and hone their skills during a variety of sparring situations. This unique workout is both safe and fun.


I feel the need to point out a few things:

1. Um....My first question is....Where's the Bogu?
2. Training unarmored, with a Bokken, is neither safe, nor fun. It can get you seriously injured or killed. No joke. That is why Kendoka train with protection...and with Shinai, and even with that, I'm here to tell you serious injury is still possible.
3. To my knowledge, there isn't "live" blade training at all in Kendo. I believe this is more of an Iaido or Kenjutsu method, and I may be wrong, but it is my understanding that even in these arts, live blade training only comes after years and years of arduous training, and even then only very sparingly.

Racoon, I think I can reasonably say that you've been duped here at your Dojo, and for that you have my deepest sympathies. It's not an easy thing to face, but the fault really lies in the people who run your Dojo, for whatever they are teaching, it isn't Kendo, or for that matter, anything which even resembles Kendo.

Now, if it's a legitimate Ryu, that's another story, but ponder this:
Why are they calling it Kendo, when it clearly isn't?

Also, I was attempting to research some of the credentials which are on the website, but I can't seem to locate any corroborating information for verification. Do you have any ideas where I might be able to look online?
I've pretty much exhausted Google on the subject.

[Kenzan]

This is strange...
They offer..

Kendo Supplies

* Katanas
* Wakazashis
* Bokken
* Sword Cleaning Kits
* Sword Racks
* Carry Bags

Sparring Gear and Bags

Other Weapons



Strange....
I shop at Eiguchi USA on a regular basis, and except for Bokken and Carry Bags , they don't seem to offer any other of these "Kendo" supplies....
..Then again, Eiguchi does sell a very cool Cellphone Mascot!
:D

[Anime12478]

Here is the general consensus on why we think the way we do.

We don't have a problem with people swinging a sword around as long as they are being smart about it. What we do have a problem with is people swinging swords around and calling it Kendo, Iaido, Naginata, etc.

Think of it this way. The art you are doing is The Art of the Samurai. If we were to take whatever you are teaching and spin it off into our own thing and call it The Art of the Samurai, then that is something that you might not like. Nobody likes something that they like to do to be misrepresented in any way shape or form that may cause harm, right?

Nobody here is claiming to own the art or anything. It is just that we all respect the art of Kendo and we want it to proliferate in the way that it was meant to be, which you might have seen in the above links. Kendo is something that we all love and strive to do our best in and we don't like it when people can just make something up and all of the sudden become masters at it.

Here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kendo) another link dealing with the kendo we all know and love that you can take a look at. It even shows pictures of the martial art in a way that people don't make so much fun of.

[rottunpunk]

a japanese man called fred.
hmmn. do you know more about his credentials etc?
:p

[ScottUK]

What Sensei is doing in this picture is posing for a camera. It is a high guard position, don't know a japanese name for it. The next thing after that might be a tsuki over something, for example.Its ok to pose for some promotional shots, but this is just an ego pose. It is not a high guard, nor is it a precursor for a tsuki. It is just a nonsensical pose.


Have you ever noticed how particularly difficult it is to photograph martial arts in such a way that no one can make fun of it? If the point is to put down something someone else is doing, there is always a way. It gets tiring after a while.True, but stand there in something that resembles a kamae/technique, rather than something that can be shot down by kyu grades.

I agree with Paikea - you're being taken for a ride by your superiors. Would it be too much to ask your sensei to attend this discussion? Maybe she can throw some light on our questions?

[rottunpunk]

unless the superiors were also under the impression that they were doing proper stuff, but were misslead themselves?
:p

[Fonsz]

greetings,

Has anyone noticed that I respond mostly to the ones that treat me reasonably well? Not that everyone is being a putz, but I simply cannot respond to all of them since I have apparently turned over a hornet's nest.

What Sensei is doing in this picture is posing for a camera. It is a high guard position, don't know a japanese name for it. The next thing after that might be a tsuki over something, for example. Have you ever noticed how particularly difficult it is to photograph martial arts in such a way that no one can make fun of it? If the point is to put down something someone else is doing, there is always a way. It gets tiring after a while.

I will look at the various links that have been provided.

David
What your Sensei is doing belongs to a fantasy world! What you all are doing belongs to a fantasy world. It is a Mc Dojo if I ever saw one. The fact that you have the guts to call the travesty that is seen on the pictures, Kendo, is insult to injury. It has nothing to do with the Samurai, Musashi ryu, Toyama ryu or everything else you can dish up. It is fantasy ryu! It's not even based on an anime ryu! Dream on and the bad real world might go away.

[KhawMengLee]

You know I think this analogy best describes your situation...you are like a little girl who has found a turd in the gutter(Kilgore/chikara) and tried to polish it up and approached us with a proud smile on your face asking us, "what do you think?"

Well, no matter how much you polish it up girl, its still a shit.
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showpost.php?p=171382&postcount=222


You know, the comment above applies to this situation here. Our friend here is one of those people who cannot admit he/she has been taken in for a bum deal.

They are the type of person who buys a lemon from a used car dealer and no matter how hard you try to point out the car is a piece of crap they will not believe it...even when the engine falls out at 30kmph, they will insist that its a new german aerodynamic feature to decrease car weight etc etc

Mate, wake up...do some research...pork aint kosher and bullshit ain't martial arts.

[DarQik]

If the point is to put down something someone else is doing, there is always a way.There has been a certain amount of giggling and finger pointing about the website's representation of the dojo and art. I think most important points are that you are enjoying what you are doing, doing it safely, and not misrepresenting what you are doing. Scrolling back to page 1 and 2. Neil clearly spelled out why it is of interest to us.
It's not the specifics of what they do that bugs me. It's the misrepresentation of what they do as something else. [...] Which reflects badly on all of us.For most people hobbies like these tend to become a part of our identity and very important to us. Some of the things you say are very typical of bad teaching. Normal progression in proper study isn't bokuto/bokken to a cheap commodity live blade.

Nobody studies a traditional art in a vacuum. You don't base something on something like Toyama Ryu unless you have obtained a very high level of mastery. You become based on, because you have split off from the hombu on either friendly or unfriendly terms. Sadly, there are a lot of appealling frauds out there. It can be very hard for a person with knowledge to see through it. That's why references are important.

When I recently considered attending a small local dojo teaching something based an old Japanese family style, I started with the web site. It had almost no pictures and really left me wondering whether it was worthwhile or not. I didn't start by asking the teacher his qualifications or seeing how tough he was. I found out who his instructor was, and evaluated his instructor's reputation and qualifications, and likewise the reputation and qualtification of his instructors, going back up the chain several steps until I stopped at Takeda Sokaku and Takeda Tokimune. Then I came back looking at the instructor's instructor and fellow students had to say about each of them. Are still affiliated and recommended by the hombu in Japan? Does the most senior instructor still maintain conversation and training with this distant group? What have other reputable groups that have interacted with them at seminars had to say about them? There was quite some controversy with the art's lineage so this took me quite a bit of effort to sort out. Then when the background said this is the real deal, I visited to see if I was interested.

Some of the folks here have been suckered into bad dojos, and sincerely want to help prevent others from spending time doing things that aren't what they claim to be. Believe me, we understand that Japanese swordwork isn't flashy looking. It certainly looks nothing like what I expected from TV and movies, but it is very functional. It's not just that we think your dojo is silly or the instructor is a fraud--we can only intrepret the clues from the information presented. That's why it would be nicer to visit and see what you are doing rather than guess from a website, but given distance it's not really an option just to satisfy our curiosity.

If you have any misgivings, please consider making a trip out to visit another dojo that maintains their relationship to the traditional organizations to compare. The organizations exist to help validate instructors and find reputable ones. As you can see we can hand out plenty of references; we can help you find some references for non-kendo dojos studying other traditional arts if you would like. As a student, it is up to you to seek the type and level of instruction you want.
Our kendo is based on toyama ryu... our kata: they are nearly all modified sword forms for open hand work. We learn the katas all over again with katana and wakazashi at or near 1st Dan.

We do not use 440 stainless for partner work. 440 stainless is a beginner sword. One must learn and start somewhere, right? I also have a folded steel sword made in 1927.

Our Shihan's sensei was a Japanese man named Fred, who opened his dojo in Montana after World War II. Fred was old then, probably deceased nowI'll point out the big red flags here. Based on Toyama Ryu without any stated link back to Toyama experience. A purely sword based form adapted to open hand kata. Use of 440 blades rather than a zinc/aluminum alloy Iaito. While an old folded steel sword sounds impressive, a recently made traditional shinken serves the same purpose for cutting practice. Finally, the instructor's instructor was some obscure Japanese person in an unknown but traditional art with no way to verify it. The only dojo affiliations are with coalitions of other unaffiliated dojos.

That's not to say that it's worthless, silly or should be ridiculed. Just that it doesn't sound like "traditional arts of Japanese Karate and Kendo." And since my interest was in a truly traditional art, I would not be interested. It's a hobby, if you enjoy it--enjoy it. It's only the misrepresentation most people have issue with. (I won't deny some do enjoy the bashing, just try not to let them bother you much.)

You do realize that karate was imported to Japan, and there is no "Agedo Karate" outside of Knoxville, right?

[raccoon]

This is taken from their info page on Kendo.

http://www.artsofthesamurai.net/kendoclass.html

I feel the need to point out a few things:

1. Um....My first question is....Where's the Bogu?

the bogu, both sets, is present and ready for use. we generally expect at least an Orange belt in our school before letting people try it. Until then, we let them get the softball out of their systems with the padded sword (chanbarrra). I know, it is not the same. Bogu is expensive, like $395 a set for the least I have been able to find; far more than the price of a chanbarra, caged headgear, and a cup. We are working on making the website more informational and more useful. Hakama and Keikogi are not expected until Orange belt, nearly mandated by blue belt, but did I mention that we are not all about the clothes? More and better pictures are forthcoming, just dont have a timetable or anything yet.

2. Training unarmored, with a Bokken, is neither safe, nor fun...

yup! Bokken is for training on how to hold the sword, where do your feet go, learning kata. Novices still have to learn somehow (even Musashi had to learn somehow, though he wrote that he had no teacher). A shinai would work fine too, but a bokken is $10, shinai at least $35.

3. To my knowledge, there isn't "live" blade training at all in Kendo...

You are correct, or mostly. Someone correct if I have the wrong word, but the goal here is "tachiuchi" - sparring with live steel. None of our kendoka is ready for that anytime in the foreseeable future.

4. Racoon, I think I can reasonably say that you've been duped here at your Dojo, and for that you have my deepest sympathies...Now, if it's a legitimate Ryu, that's another story, but ponder this: Why are they calling it Kendo, when it clearly isn't?

It is a small school - only two Agedo schools in the whole USA. Dont know if any exist anywhere else. Not sure how one decides legitimate - things have to be some certain size to have a lot of administration dont they?

Still looking for a better word for it that would not condemn us to a life of "Learn Japanese in one really-over-answered-question" every time someone asked what we were doing with all those katanas? even though the common understanding of kendo could be referred to as "japanese fencing" or so my friend Sakura called it. In some respects it may be closer to the older "kenjutsu", since some kendo schools may not do cutting exercises with live steel as we do. (I understand that the cutting/not cutting is a subject of a whole other bailiwick that I would be happy to go into, but I am trying not to digress.) but the focus is in the character development and personal improvement associated with kendo...so the jutsu "art" is close in a way, but the "do" part is important to us. We arrive at "kendo" because of the literal interpretation "the way of the sword" rather than because of more widely accepted use of it.

>Also, I was attempting to research some of the credentials which are on the website, but I can't seem to locate any corroborating information for verification. Do you have any ideas where I might be able to look online?
I've pretty much exhausted Google on the subject.

I am only a green belt. Some of these things I just havent worried about, but I will work on that part for you. The Alliance that we are a member of (that was mocked, if I recall) is not a terribly large group, and their website is occasionally down...I will see if I can get the URL for you.

I am told the defining factor in kendo is the cut (probably have this oversimplified or imprecise wording): in the end, the goal is an impeccable cut. Two years ago I was all bent out of shape over whether I could break a board or two, let alone cut bamboo of any useful diameter. I am still really only a novice, not even 1st Dan, so not too much should be expected - but I can break a board tossed in midair (speed break) fairly reliably, and I have done some decent cutting for my level. But you want corroboration. I do know that our black belts are indepently registered, so that the promotions are credible and recognized somewhere, but again, only a green belt.

That said, please do not think for one second that we would not do kendo with you guys given the opportunity. (yeah, we probably get beat first time out - who doesnt?)

I am still looking around at the links to kendo sites provided. not done looking yet.

Raccoon

#-----------------------------------------
"put a picture of his thumb on the bamboo,
he is sure to be able to cut it then!"

[ScottUK]

No-one cuts bamboo as part of their kendo practice - that is an auxiliary skill that some people practice called tameshigiri.

I think you're mixing up iai, shinai kendo and kenjutsu. Can you post some pics or a video so we can what it is you're talking about?

[Anime12478]

The kendo that you guys do is completely different from the kendo that we do. If you ever want to join a practice with us or the iaido or naginata guys, then you are more welcome to. But if you expect to even at least hang with people on a similar level, then you are sorely mistaken.

[raccoon]

No-one cuts bamboo as part of their kendo practice - that is an auxiliary skill that some people practice called tameshigiri.

I think you're mixing up iai, shinai kendo and kenjutsu. Can you post some pics or a video so we can what it is you're talking about?

No one? I had thought that was one of those topics guaranteed to start a discussion. Until recently I had no idea that all kendo schools did not do tameshigiri. (grin) maybe they should.

Gladly. More pictures coming in October. I understand that there will be more bamboo cutting.


Raccoon

[raccoon]

The kendo that you guys do is completely different from the kendo that we do. If you ever want to join a practice with us or the iaido or naginata guys, then you are more welcome to. But if you expect to even at least hang with people on a similar level, then you are sorely mistaken.

thanks for the invitation. What? you dont have novices?:smiley:

Raccoon

[Neil Gendzwill]

Until recently I had no idea that all kendo schools did not do tameshigiri.No kendo schools do tameshigiri. We don't use live blades. You're not in a kendo school.

[Jung_Yul]

That's quite impressive for a mere stag.

http://www.artsofthesamurai.net/senseimcsorley.html (http://www.artsofthesamurai.net/senseimcsorley.html)

Why does she looks like she came out of a bad anime? Is there even such a thing as the US National Martial Arts Hall of Fame?

I hope you're ready for this...

There actually IS a US National Martial Arts Hall of Fame.
http://www.usmartialartshalloffame.homestead.com/index.html (http://www.usmartialartshalloffame.homestead.com/index.html)
On the surface, it doesn't look like a bad thing... their website could use a little work, but we're martial artists, not necessarily master web designers. What I found interesting is that I went into their archives...
http://www.usmartialartshalloffame.homestead.com/Inductees2001.html (http://www.usmartialartshalloffame.homestead.com/Inductees2001.html)
http://www.usmartialartshalloffame.homestead.com/Inductees2002.html (http://www.usmartialartshalloffame.homestead.com/Inductees2002.html)
http://www.usmartialartshalloffame.homestead.com/Inductees2003.html (http://www.usmartialartshalloffame.homestead.com/Inductees2003.html)
http://www.usmartialartshalloffame.homestead.com/Inductees2004.html (http://www.usmartialartshalloffame.homestead.com/Inductees2004.html)
http://www.usmartialartshalloffame.homestead.com/Inductees2005.html
... and I found absolutely NO INSTANCE of a Toni McSorley... anywhere. I searched all five years for "Toni McSorley," "McSorley," "Pioneer," "Pioneer Award," (just to see if there was a female that's been awarded... sorry ladies, no one as yet.) and "of the Year." (In order to check the name of every person given ANY kind of "of the Year" award.) Surprise, surprise, she's not listed anywhere. Whether or not this is a "McOrganization" or not is, in the context of this discussion, irrelevant. The fact remains that she is attempting to use erroneous information in order to bolster her own esteem for the purpose of exploiting people. If anyone can argue against that point, I'd be happy to read such an argument. As has been pointed out on this thread, they are simply begging for one of their students (why, by the way, are agreeing to be taught by these people with the understanding that they will not be expected to attempt anything that would be considered dangerous at their current skill level... as is always the case in any art.) to seriously injure or kill either themselves, or heaven forbid, someone else through negligence.

Hey, I've got a GREAT idea! Rather than actually study and train diligently in an established style, I'll invent my own... that way, I'm automatically the Grandmaster of it. THEN, rather than go through all the nonsense of actually being bestowed with any awards for my accomplishments, (because we all know that's all largely ceremonial anyway) I'll just make up some awards for myself... no one will check on it anyway.

John Anderson

[Jung_Yul]

[quote=ScottUK]Its ok to pose for some promotional shots, but this is just an ego pose. It is not a high guard, nor is it a precursor for a tsuki. It is just a nonsensical pose.

True, but stand there in something that resembles a kamae/technique, rather than something that can be shot down by kyu grades.

Why not simply stand in a dignified manner with your sword in its saya? Do we REALLY have to try looking like the Power Rangers' rejects when we take a picture? Sure, it's fine for personal use/display at home, but for public use, in my opinion, a more dignified approach is more mature, and invites far less criticism or ridicule. Just a humble thought, not an attack, nor a furthering of mockery.

John

[ScottUK]

I guess standing there in teito shisei doesn't really make for a very good promotional photo of the system, be it koryu or gendai.

Might be ok for formal portraits of practitioners, but in today's world of marketed martial arts, the sheep need images of coolness... :rolleyes:

[Jung_Yul]

I guess standing there in teito shisei doesn't really make for a very good promotional photo of the system, be it koryu or gendai.

Might be ok for formal portraits of practitioners, but in today's world of marketed martial arts, the sheep need images of coolness... :rolleyes:

... very, very true. Quiet dignity is truly lost on the masses.

[Ignatz]

So how's Va. Beach treating you John? Is there life after the Corps?

[Jung_Yul]

Yeah, it's been a while. I just ran across your e-mail address today, in fact, and was going to send you a message in the next day or two. I graduated from ITT last March, and I've just started working for EDS on the NMCI help desk. (No groaning from the military guys, please... I understand your pain, but it's a job.) Otherwise, I'm seeing an amazing woman, and trying my best to keep my little Kendo/Iaido group going with my limited knowledge. We make trips up to the Cherrypoint group as often as schedules and finances permit. With any luck we should be able to attend the annual Iaido seminar with the Shidogakuin in January.

Jim's doing well last I heard. He and his wife recently welcomed a baby boy into their family, and he's been promoted to Master Sergeant. That and the fact that he's getting to train in Okinawa as much as the current op tempo permits... yeah, he's probably doing very well.

Hit me back and let me know how you've been. Take care, my friend.

John

[Mr. T.]

Hi David,

Before I start, I’m one of the guys that made fun of your dojo. So please try and prove me wrong. So, what are the credentials of your sensei? I’m sorry to say, but what I’ve read, she is kind of a fruitcake.

There is a good reason we make fun of you guys, besides the goofy site your dojo has. First, naginata-do nor kendo use coloured belts. They use kyu and dan grades and if they’re very old, menkyo.

My second point, just because you where a hakama doesn’t make you legit. I’ve seen loads of fakes wearing a hakama (have you ever watched Discoveries XMA docu?). Kendo and live steel for you-know-who’s sake, are you crazy? Even 8th dan kendo sensei rarely does it. It’s freaking dangerous, especially with one of those stainless steal cheap things. If you are crazy enough to practice with a live blade, buy a proper one. Even beginner need to use save swords. Musashi’s book technical data was meant for his own school niten ichi ryu (Scott, am I correct?). It isn’t a kendo manual, never was, never will be. It’s useful literature and almost mandatory for every JSA practitioner. But it’s not a manual, each ryu use different principles. As far as I know Musashi never said “read my book every year and study it”. I’ve read the book, but I must have missed that part.

My third point. 40+ years in the martial arts doesn’t mean anything to me, sorry. Ashida Kim has been around for ages and if you want to know what we think of him, use the search function and have fun.

Please don’t get me wrong, your sensei might be good. It just sound very fishy to me. You folks do chanbarra tournaments, no kendo dojo does that? They might try it for some fun, but no serious dojo does it as a part of their curriculum. May I ask, have you or any of your dojo buddies ever been in a real (open) kendo tournament? Just because we’re not allowed to kill each other anymore doesn’t mean you have to stop thinking like that when we (you kendoka) are having a shiai (that doesn’t sound right, but you know what I mean). Kendo was invented so that samurai could attack each other without killing. A well trained samurai was very expensive, so wasting his live during training was pretty stupid.

Another point: Toyama isn’t kendo, it’s iai/batto.

I’m sorry David, but so far you haven’t convinced me. Even worse, the answers you have given us convinced me even more that you are a member of a mcdojo. I know that what I’ve written, has been said before, but please read my post and try to convince me you guys aren’t a bunch of flakes)

(Damn, and I promised myself to stop writing long post, better luck next time)

[Mr. T.]

Hi David,

It's been a while ago, but I took another look at your site, I found info about this tournament (http://www.artsofthesamurai.net/Resources/SERO%2006%20Flyer.pdf). Can you explain a few things to us?

1. All black belts where expected to judge. Ehhh... Where other people from other organisations expected to judge as well? Even shodans?
2. Different events: Musical forms, WTF!!! What has music to do with MA? Could you elaborate and explain what this is about.
3. Synchronized Forms, be serious was this for real. Kata, I understand, but synchronized competition forms. What's the purpose of that?
4.
Open Handed and Weapon Forms: There are no restrictions as to the type of form you choose. We recognize there are many styles of martial arts in the world, and celebrate their differences. Different weapons cannot be compared. It's like comparing apples and oranges, it's just plain stupid. No judge can have enough experience with all the weapons used during competition. Only during those XMA like tournaments do this kind of armed competition BS. Or am I wrong?
5. Point sparring. I'll let you get away with that one.
6. The worst offence of all:

Chanbarra Point Sparring: Chanbarra are flexible foam swords used in
kendo.
WTF where you guys/girls thinking? Are you nuts? KENDO DOESN'T USE CRAPPY FOAM TOYS :mad: . Next you are going to tell me that you do iai as with a partner and a shinken (please tell me you do :D)

[rottunpunk]

there are 3-6 year old catagories.
is this not a little younge an age to be competing. not to mention the differences between a 3 and 4 year old physically etc let alone 3 to 6.

raccoon hasnt posted in a while. do you reckon his sensei laydee has banned him from talking to us?
:p

[Dervish]

Haha, dojo bucks!

[Mr. T.]

raccoon hasnt posted in a while. do you reckon his sensei laydee has banned him from talking to us?
:p

Maybe David could ask his sensei to come to this forum and awnser some of our questions. Now that could be a lot of fun :rolleyes:

[David]

>.< Please, call him racoon. I don't want people getting the wrong impression here.

[Mr. T.]

Sure, no problem. Sorry David, it won't happen again.

[Andrew S]

Maybe if this "sensei" shows up, her username should be "Lemming"...

[pgsmith]

I talked with this bunch a couple years ago on another forum. e-budo maybe? Ended up trying to give them some sincere advice and suggestions on how to arrange for some honest to goodness actual sword training since it came out that they simply made theirs up. No dice. They aren't doing it to really learn anything, they are just doing it because it looks and sounds cool. The fact that they are only learning foam boffer fighting and movie sword ryu doesn't seem to bother them at all.

Such is life! :)

[Andrew S]

[voice suggestive of an IQ of 62] "Well, if it's in the movies, it's gotta be real. Where else did they get the samurai for that flick with Tom Cruise?"

[Jung_Yul]

[voice suggestive of an IQ of 62] "Well, if it's in the movies, it's gotta be real. Where else did they get the samurai for that flick with Tom Cruise?"

:eek: What??? You mean the samurai in that movie weren't REAL samurai??? NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[Newbie]

I know of a couple dojo where after kendo training they give the kids these foam toy things and let them go mental and have little competitions with these things, etc. It's reversed the retention rate. Instead of the 10-20% retention most kendo dojos have, they retain about 80%. And of course, this is just some fun that's coupled with serious training.

What offends me most about the place being discussed here is that they have the gall to call it kendo!!

[Lounge]

It is the same as me running down a hill and telling everyone I'm an expert in absailing...

It may seem trivial to them but to the people who actually commit a good chunk of their lives (time and money) to train hard and represent the MA that they train in it is an insult. I hope that they understand this!!! Call it sword arts based on Japanese styles; call it Japanese infulenced sword style... but to call it kendo/iaido/kenjustu/bottojutsu/etc... is in my opinion wrong :mad:

[Kenzan]

I say, at the end of the day, it should be buyer beware.
If I'm paying hard-earned cash to a school to learn something, it behooves me to check out the school to ensure that it is teaching something which will actually benefit me.

[I_am_Cthulhu]

bottojutsuYou are the greatest.

[Lounge]

You are the greatest.
Arse biscuits!!! I should never type angry!!!

[I_am_Cthulhu]

How about Battyjutsu (http://www.data-recon.com/~ivank/public/pics/alig/Ali%20G%20vs%20Darth%20Maul.jpg)?

[Lounge]

How about Battyjutsu (http://www.data-recon.com/~ivank/public/pics/alig/Ali%20G%20vs%20Darth%20Maul.jpg)?
Mint :D

I hear this is a Cthulhu speciality ?!?

[I_am_Cthulhu]

At 8:45 tonight all will be revealed. I will strike you so hard your unborn children will feel your pain.

[Lounge]

At 8:45 tonight all will be revealed. I will strike you so hard your unborn children will feel your pain.
The rate I'm going with relationships ain't gonna be no chillen to worry about!!! :D

[Washington]

Maybe they will go corporate.. then I can get my own nerfjutsu franchise.. beats working for a living. People apparently will buy anything.

[I_am_Cthulhu]

I will sign up to Nerfjutsu. Superb idea.

[Lounge]

...then I can get my own nerfjutsu franchise...
When is the first seminar? and whats the cost?

[Newbie]

If I'm paying hard-earned cash to a school to learn something, it behooves me to check out the school to ensure that it is teaching something which will actually benefit me.

But if you don't know, if you're new to it all, how do you know it's not a McDojo, the real deal? How do you know what the right questions to ask are? I mean, they could tell you that they were taught by the 38th Grand Master of FangDangleWu and how would you know it's a crock if you're the average joe off the street who would like to learn JSA? That's what bugs me most - fooling the innocent and well-meaning. It's partly why I didn't get into MA for so long, I didn't know who to trust, what was genuine and what was crap. And that's why I feel sorry for the backyard samurai we get on here who try to impress us with their McDojo teachings and then get their backs up when we try to point out the errors of their ways.

[shred_lord]

I mean, they could tell you that they were taught by the 38th Grand Master of FangDangleWu and how would you know it's a crock Be still Unbeliever! I have taught many, the most secret techniques of FangDangleWu. :ninja:

[Jesus]

Dear God!!

Am i close enough or should i send for dad....

[Washington]

It doesn't matter who your dad is.. I will still need to see picture I.D. before I accept any checks for nerfjutsu lessons :)

[Kaoru]

But if you don't know, if you're new to it all, how do you know it's not a McDojo, the real deal? How do you know what the right questions to ask are? I mean, they could tell you that they were taught by the 38th Grand Master of FangDangleWu and how would you know it's a crock if you're the average joe off the street who would like to learn JSA? That's what bugs me most - fooling the innocent and well-meaning. It's partly why I didn't get into MA for so long, I didn't know who to trust, what was genuine and what was crap. And that's why I feel sorry for the backyard samurai we get on here who try to impress us with their McDojo teachings and then get their backs up when we try to point out the errors of their ways.

A complete beginner won't. That happened to me when I first started swordarts. I saw an ad in the phone book for Kumdo, thought it was the real deal and went to the dojang to try a class and asked some questions, and as far as I knew, he was legit. I never had seen real kendo/kumdo before except in an anime, and that's what got me interested.(You can guess what anime it was... *Points to avatar*)

It took 5 1/2 months for me to learn they were NOT the real deal, and the only way I found out was when I posted here about an incident that happened to me at that dojang. They toss you into bogu from day one and you think it's cool and fun. Gads, there's so much more that was wrong with that place. I suspected something about the teacher, but didn't know what. All I knew, was that he showed up to class in a dirty musashi keiko-gi and TKD pants and tennis shoes to each class and our floor had TKD mats. I thought the flooring was correct since I'd never seen any diferent anywhere. He never took part in any training and spent his time watching and saying things here and there. Since I'd taken TKD years before, and the dojang I had gone to was strict, I did think his total lack of etiquette was insulting. I wrote one post about that a month after my first class on another well-known forum(For some reason the name is escaping me... My post is still there, too.) about this and got told that there was nothing wrong with it and his clothes. So, how could I have known? I didn't make another post on this place until September a few weeks after I discovered this forum.

For all I knew, the uniform was normal. Hardly anyone wore the correct uniform too. Every single one of them was in this teacher's TKD classes except me. He tried to talk me into it, but I politely declined.

So yes, it's very easy to snow someone who has never had any experience with a sword art.

I completely agree with you on everything you said, too. I hate when people who claim to be what they are not.

Kaoru

[Kenzan]

But if you don't know, if you're new to it all, how do you know it's not a McDojo, the real deal? How do you know what the right questions to ask are? I mean, they could tell you that they were taught by the 38th Grand Master of FangDangleWu and how would you know it's a crock if you're the average joe off the street who would like to learn JSA? That's what bugs me most - fooling the innocent and well-meaning. It's partly why I didn't get into MA for so long, I didn't know who to trust, what was genuine and what was crap. And that's why I feel sorry for the backyard samurai we get on here who try to impress us with their McDojo teachings and then get their backs up when we try to point out the errors of their ways.


As you know, the internet is ubiquitous at this juncture. It's at darn near Magic Mirror-like proportions!
Sure, you have to wade through the crud to get what you need, but hell, search for the term, Dog crap and you'll receive 68,100,000 hits on the subject.
To further the vein, 365,000 hits are returned for Chicken-fried dog crap!! :D
Anything you would want to know about is *somewhere* on the web now.

So that said, I can't justify feeling sorry for anyone who has not at least taken a moderate effort to find out the truth about something which they will be paying money for, AND investing both trust and time into.
Do you buy anything big without doing research?
Many people do, and they are foolish for doing so.
Should we feel sorry for the lazy person that bought a lemon car because they chose from pure emotion, failed to look at the facts or the documentation, or the details OR the contract?
~ Or should we weep for those who are weak-minded enough to give in to sales pressure, bad advise, or the disease of the impulse buyer's excited dreaming?
Sure, it's always wrong when someone is taken advantage of, but certainly at least some responsibility must be taken by the consumer?
In the case of an M/A school, it would have taken maybe 30 minutes for someone with a PC to do some research.
No PC? There's the Public Library, and the Librarians will even do the research for you if you act kind enough.
So I say, in this day and age, there is simply no excuse for not knowing the who, the what and the why of what one is getting into regarding a (whatever) school or martial art.
If reserve my sympathy for those who after they have done all their research, find out later by no fault of their own, that they were being duped surreptitiously
That's my 2 shoto.

[Kaoru]

As you know, the internet is ubiquitous at this juncture. It's at darn near Magic Mirror-like proportions!
Sure, you have to wade through the crud to get what you need, but hell, search for the term, Dog crap and you'll receive 68,100,000 hits on the subject.
To further the vein, 365,000 hits are returned for Chicken-fried dog crap!! :D
Anything you would want to know about is *somewhere* on the web now.


So... Just how bored were you to actually go find out this useless(but funny) information?? hehehe! :D Goodness, what made you think of those particular things to look up? ROTFL

Kaoru

[Kenzan]

So... Just how bored were you to actually go find out this useless(but funny) information?? hehehe! :D Goodness, what made you think of those particular things to look up? ROTFL

Kaoru


It was just a random pick.
My mind has a strange and vivid imagination.
I blame the books of H.P. Lovecraft and his tentacle fetishes..

But shockingly enough, apparently there are lots of people in the world interested in both
Crap, Dog crap, and the nuisances of breading and Frying it.
It's a sick, strange and bizarre world out there.
Don't ask me....I just work here.

:D

YEEECCCHH! (http://1kbwc.gemini6ice.com/cards/000413.jpg)

[Kitsune]

How about Battyjutsu (http://www.data-recon.com/~ivank/public/pics/alig/Ali%20G%20vs%20Darth%20Maul.jpg)?


Why I was hoping that it was Batman with bogu??? Why?!

[Kaoru]

It was just a random pick.
My mind has a strange and vivid imagination.
I blame the books of H.P. Lovecraft and his tentacle fetishes..


Ahhh... I see. Strange and vivid imaginations are good. hehehe! :D

I'm not familiar with H.P. Lovecraft's books though. Oh well. :)


But shockingly enough, apparently there are lots of people in the world interested in both
Crap, Dog crap, and the nuisances of breading and Frying it.
It's a sick, strange and bizarre world out there.
Don't ask me....I just work here.

That's disgusting! hahaha... Ewwww, who'd want to BREAD and FRY it for goodness sakes?!? People sure can be strange... ok, bizzare might be a better word. :D



:D

YEEECCCHH! (http://1kbwc.gemini6ice.com/cards/000413.jpg)
ROTFL, Did you draw that??? Too funny... I didn't quite expect that one... :D :rolleyes: :D

Kaoru

[Kenzan]

Ahhh... I see. Strange and vivid imaginations are good. hehehe! :D

I'm not familiar with H.P. Lovecraft's books though. Oh well. :)


You are in for a treat.
Here is a site where you can read pretty much the complete works:
For free.
I recommend your first story to be "The Call of Cthulhu"
Enjoy. I am certain you will never find an author quite like him.

http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/



ROTFL, Did you draw that??? Too funny... I didn't quite expect that one... :D :rolleyes: :D
Kaoru

No, Had I drawn it, I would have made the eyes more emotive.
:D

[nodachi]

I love the work of HP Lovecraft. Although I actually prefer some of his short 10 page or less stories to the longer ones. I would also like to highly recommend them. The freaky thing is that many of them came from the nightmares he had as a child. Definitely not a picture perfect childhood.

One of my favorites begins with "It is true that I sent six bullets through the head of my best friend, and yet I hope to show by this statement that I am not his murderer."

[I_am_Cthulhu]

I love "From Beyond"... superb.

Clive Barker reminds me of Lovecraft at times. "Cabal" is a good example of this.

[目の届く限り]

www.artsofthesamurai.net/ kendoclass.html
They've updated the website err, hmmm, yesterday?!
Most of the old pages aren't there anymore...

Has anyone saved it for future reference?! :silly:

[Anime12478]

It seems like most of the old information is there except for the news and announcemnets about the tater cuttin' class. But now, the website looks better.

[Jung_Yul]

It seems like most of the old information is there except for the news and announcemnets about the tater cuttin' class. But now, the website looks better.

Yes, it's very pretty and shiny. To continue some of the points I made in my earlier post, I went back and was a bit more thorough in my checking of the good sensei's' US National Martial Arts Hall of Fame award claims. For the sake of civility, I will refrain from any further sarcasm.
First, we have McSorley sensei. According to her website, she holds the following distinctions:
Woman of the Year (2001)
Female Master of the Year (2002)
Head Founder of the Year (2003)
Chaplain of the Year (2004)
the first female Pioneer Award Recipient (2005) (bold, underlining, and italics are my own for emphasis.)

First, the only instance of a "Woman of the Year" award was in 2000, and it was given to a Ruth Hunter. There are no awardees for the years 2001-2005 for Woman of the Year. In fact, the award isn't even listed other than for 2000.

Second, from 2000-2002, there are no listings for "Female Master of the Year." For the year 2003, there is one listing for the state of Wisconsin (yes, there are individual awards by state.) for a Lisa Heitke. There were no subsequent awards for this title in 2004 or 2005.

Third, for the title of "Head Founder of the Year," there are no listings at all from 2000-2005. For the sake of being thorough, I also searched every year for "Founder of the Year." In 2001, it was a Marty Cale. 2002 had one from the states Arizona, California, and Conneticut, and Arkansas and Texas had "Co-Founder of the Year," and Tennessee had just "Founder." Respectively, those names are: William McDonald, Bob Moses, Kevin Barry Sullivan, Rhuel Dean Luttrell, Charles Lee Bergeron Jr., and Jay Blanton. For 2003, We have Robert H. Hardin from Arkansas, Duane R. Ethington from Texas, Russell McCartney from Washington, and Bernie Fritz from Wisconsin. For 2004, Walt Lysak Jr. takes the award for "Reality Martial Arts Founder of the Year," Richard Ryan has "Combat Martial Arts Founder of the Year," Leonard Holifield has "International Executive Security Founder of the Year," and for just "Founder of the Year," we have Ronald Calpito from Hawaii. For 2005's "Founder of the Year," we have Rowdy D. Hall and David M. Morizot from California, and TA Frazer from Kentucky has "International Founder of the Year."

Fourth, the award "Chaplain of the Year," I searched from 2000-2005 for "Chaplain of the Year." This particular award does not appear on any archive list, leading me to believe that said award does not exist, and is therefore fiction. To be thorough (because that's becoming my favorite word) I searched all six years for the word "Chaplain." The only instance was in the 2002 bio of Garx Findley from California, stating that he serves full time as the Protestant Chaplain at Wasco State Prison.

Fifth and finally are the claims that McSorley sensei was the first female to be recognized with the "Pioneer Award." As I mentioned earlier, there have been no women recognized with this award to date. In 2002, Al Holcomb from Tennessee was recognized as a "Martial Art Pioneer," In 2003 Pat Burleson was "America's Karate Pioneer," (and I realize that "Pat" could be a woman's name, but no women were awarded the "Pioneer Award.") Paul N. Guilbeault from Massachusetts received the "Pioneer Award," as did Richard A. Petronelli of Rhode Island in 2005, and in 2005 Stephen "Steve" Clark received the "Martial Arts Pioneer Award."

[Jung_Yul]

Meyers sensei's profile claims that she was inducted as Female Martial Artist of the year for 2005. From Arizona we have Jesse "Ted" Molina as "Most Inspiring Martial Artist of the Year." Arkansas has Henry Deon Moser as "Martial Artist of the Year." Georgia has Michael Ehrenreich as "International Martial Artist of the Year." Allen Fischer of Missouri has "Multi-Disciplined Martial Artist of the Year." Joseph Richard Gelineau of Rhode Island has "Martial Artist of the Year," and Florida has JaVarez DaShonn Thomas as "Jr. Martial Artist of the Year." No mention of a Mindi Meyers was made anywhere, or even of the surname "Meyers" in any of the six years' archives.


Golden sensei claims on his profile to be awarded "Male Martial Artist of the year" for 2005, and "Instructor of the Year" for 2003, in that order. (I only distinguish that because it makes more sense to me to list them chronologically.) We've already explored the "Martial Artist of the Year" and found no instance of a Billey Golden, so let's check the second (first?) award. For 2003, John Stump of Alabama has "Shorinji Kempo Instructor of the Year." Steve Place and Farren L. Wadley of Arkansas both are "Taekwondo Instructor of the Year." (for the same state...) California has Kathleen Newhouse and Marty Zaninovich with "Female TKD Instructor of the Year" and "Master Instructor of the Year" respectively. Colorado has Sheldon Marr with "Defense Tactics Instructor of the Year." Conneticut has Daniel Semeraro Jr. as "Instructor of the Year," as does Indiana's Eric M. Gassin. Indiana has Jim Snowberger as "Tae Kwon Do Instructor of the Year," (I love how consistant this site is... Taekwondo, TKD, Tae Kwon Do...) also from Indiana is Kelli Snowberger as "Female Tae Kwon Do Instructor of the Year." Massachusetts has Kathryn Bailey, Robert Bronson, Jay Brunetta, Dean Gaudet, Joshua Ryan Lott, Mark Anthony Montaquila, Steven Robillard, and Ken Woodside as "Instructor of the Year," (all eight are THE Instructor of the Year...) and Bruce McCrorry is "Master Instructor of the Year." Minnesota has Harold J. Mead as "Master Instructor of the Year." Missouri has Robert Lee Jones with the same award. New York has Michelle A. Smith with "Female Instructor of the Year." Ohio has L.J. Blevins with "Shorin-Ryu Instructor of the Year," Russ Cambarare as "Instructor of the Year," and Anna M. Smith as "Female Instructor of the Year." Rhode Island has Alan R. Fortes as "Instructor of the Year," and Alan S. Reedy as "Law Enforcement Instructor of the Year." South Carolina has Tracy D. Stephens as "Ninjitsu Instructor of the Year." (I won't touch that.) Tennesse has Chad Netherland and James Edward Ogle as "Master Instructor of the Year." Texas has James Edward Cox as "Kajukembo Instructor of the Year," and Parish Matthew Cronen, David J. McLaughlin, and Justing Ryan White as "Instructor of the Year." Washington has Doris Elaine Reed as "Ishi Yama Ryu Instructor of the Year." The U.K. has Allison Phipps as "International Instructor of the Year." Arkansas has Victor Romero as "Latino Instructor of the Year." Illinois has Vladimir Djordjevic as "Distinguished Master Instructor of the Year." Serbia and Montenegro have Ana Vracarevic, Bratislav Stajic, and Radojica Spasovic as "International Instructor of the Year."


Trussel sensei and Crocker sensei have no listing for any awards by the US National Martial Arts Hall of Fame on their profile.


Now, this has been quite a bit to search, type up, and I’m certain it’s been quite a bit to read. I only listed all the actual inductees of these awards to highlight a point. By falsely representing themselves as having been given these awards, they are dishonoring themselves, and, in my humble opinion, mocking everyone that was legitimately awarded. I am not casting stones, nor am I making any accusations. I am merely presenting the facts in the most unbiased way I can think of. As I have stated before, if anyone can disprove anything I’ve put here, I’ll be happy to hear him or her out. On that note, I’ve noticed that Raccoon has been silent for a while. On one hand, I can’t really blame him, as he is a student of this organization, and really shouldn’t be held accountable for what they do. Further, he did throw his two cents in at the risk of being verbally attacked, which in my opinion constitutes a measure of courage, which should be applauded. I’m not sure if anything here has reached him, and certainly if he’s happy with this organization, there’s nothing wrong with that in and of itself. I only know that if it came to light that any of my martial arts instructors had made similar statements about their achievements, and that such achievements were not capable of being substantiated, it, at the very least, would give me pause. I have left a martial arts school due to personal moral issues with the school’s instructor, so I can, at least, speak intelligently on that issue. Everything else, I leave to the judgment of others. At any rate, I would like to know Raccoon’s thoughts and feelings about all this, or even the thoughts and feelings of the assorted instructors of this organization. I swear decency and civility, and feel safe in ensuring the general group here will do the same.


Yours in Budo,
John

[Kenzan]

That's good stuff John!
I was surprised to see the name Duane R. Ethington on that list.
I've worked with him before, and I can say that he is the real deal as far as M/A is concerned. But that was over 15 years ago, and the guy was in his late 50's!
Good to see he is still active.
-Made my day, actually.
:)

[Jung_Yul]

That's good stuff John!
I was surprised to see the name Duane R. Ethington on that list.
I've worked with him before, and I can say that he is the real deal as far as M/A is concerned. But that was over 15 years ago, and the guy was in his late 50's!
Good to see he is still active.
-Made my day, actually.
:)

I'm glad that my toils and efforts were so well received by someone. As I said in my earlier post, I don't know what this Hall of Fame organization is about, but they seem to be on a good level... still not sure about the fact that they induct numerous people in the same state for some of their "of the Year" awards, but such is life. ^_^ Take care.

[Mr. T.]

Kenzan isn't the only one who's happy with your research, good work. All of this shows, again, that they have a good chance of winning the "mcdojo of the year award". :D

[Jung_Yul]

Kenzan isn't the only one who's happy with your research, good work. All of this shows, again, that they have a good chance of winning the "mcdojo of the year award". :D

THAT, at least, would be a legitimate award! Thanks for the vote of confidence. :cheerful:

[hobbit]

"Our Kendo classes are safe, fun, and educational. Students learn the history of Japanese Swordsmanship, beginning with the basic cuts and stances. All beginners work with a wooden bokken until they have achieved enough skill that the instructor recommends a live blade." ???????
Doesn't sound like any kendo I've ever seen or practiced . . .

[Kenzan]

10 to 1 says they have a wholesale account with Budk for when students are "ready" for a "live blade."
:D

[Jung_Yul]

10 to 1 says they have a wholesale account with Budk for when students are "ready" for a "live blade."
:D

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Okay, Kenzan, now THAT made MY day... sheer brilliance. I guess we're even now.

John

[Jung_Yul]

Well, a week has come and gone with no reply from anyone... did I kill this thread, or did everyone just lose interest? ^_^ I'm also still waiting for some response from Raccoon. As I said before, I'm just curious about what his thoughts are about this.

John

[David]

Right now, the only thing that'll get this thread going again would be be a responce from one of this dojo's students. As well researched and informative as your previous posts have been, they pretty much point out in text book form what the rest of us have been saying in laymen's terms all this time: The owner's a fraud, and so is what she teaches.

[Jung_Yul]

Yes, I know, but it's been an interesting journey, and I really am interested to hear what reaction my research had on someone who's not a long-term resident of these forums.

[KhawMengLee]

I love "From Beyond"... superb.

Clive Barker reminds me of Lovecraft at times. "Cabal" is a good example of this.

I liked the movie too...a pity the studio cut it up...Barker is still digging in the vaults for the lost scenes so he can release a special edition dvd.


It seems like most of the old information is there except for the news and announcemnets about the tater cuttin' class. But now, the website looks better.


yes...tater cuttin...right next to the banana cutting session where male student hold the ole' nanaba's out at crotch level and Sensei McSorely proceeds to practice 'eemazukalate' waza to boost her ego...