Should I use a Shinai or Bokken?

[Mankal]

This will end up have several questions in it but, oh well. First off, which is better for sparring Shinai or Bokken? Second, if only one of those is for sparring, what is the other one for? Third, what are the proper methods of taking care of each? Finally, what are some of the best places to shop for both shinai and bokkens?

Thanks

[Genya]

You think bokken is for sparring? I wouldn´t do that...
Bokken is for kata and shinai is for kihon and keiko (sparring).

[Mankal]

That would probably explain why I've gone through about 3 bokkens in the past year or so. One lasted for about six months though surprisingly. What kind of care and preparation is necessary for shinai?

[tattooedasshole]

Bah, don't be a pussy, use a bokken. Get a good one and it won't break. I mean shit, you don't see them using shinai in The Last Samurai, do you? Remember, you can't make on omlet without breaking some eggs!!!;)

[Genya]

http://www.halifaxkendo.org/oil.html
That´s one way to do it. There are still many other ways.

I usually sand my shinai slats once or twice in a month, roll a wet towel around them for few hours, let them dry a bit and finally oil them.

[pgsmith]

First off, which is better for sparring Shinai or Bokken?
Neither. The best thing for learning sparring on your own is faces. You and your opponent will greatly increase your speed, timing, and proper distancing by attempting to hit your face upon your opponent's body. It can get sort of rough, and you can get bloody noses easily, but you can get really good at outwitting your opponent and not letting them get their body out of the way so you can hit him with your face. It takes speed, coordination, and extreme bravery to practice in this fashion. However, those are all qualities of bushido that modern samurai require of themselves. This is the only way to learn on your own effectively. The only decent alternative to this is to join a kendo dojo and learn from a qualified instructor.

[Genya]

Bah, don't be a pussy, use a bokken. Get a good one and it won't break. I mean shit, you don't see them using shinai in The Last Samurai, do you? Remember, you can't make on omlet without breaking some eggs!!!;)
Why not a real katana, things would be settled once and for all:D

[tattooedasshole]

Neither. The best thing for learning sparring on your own is faces. You and your opponent will greatly increase your speed, timing, and proper distancing by attempting to hit your face upon your opponent's body. It can get sort of rough, and you can get bloody noses easily, but you can get really good at outwitting your opponent and not letting them get their body out of the way so you can hit him with your face. It takes speed, coordination, and extreme bravery to practice in this fashion. However, those are all qualities of bushido that modern samurai require of themselves. This is the only way to learn on your own effectively. The only decent alternative to this is to join a kendo dojo and learn from a qualified instructor.
No, no, no. From now on i think all members of this board should recomend to people with this particular nobs disfunction to spar with bokken. Let Darwinism fix the problem. If they're stupid enough to want to swing big pieces of oak at each other, I say let them. After a few trips to the emergency room, they may just figure out exactly how stupid they were. Though the "face sparring" gave me one hell of a laugh.

[tattooedasshole]

Why not a real katana, things would be settled once and for all:D
I want them to get hurt, not killed. If they die, they haven't learned a damn thing. When you spend a few months in a cast, you have time to re-evaluate what got you to the position you're in.

[Mankal]

What is a good place to buy shinai?

[tattooedasshole]

What is a good place to buy shinai?
Get to a dojo first. They will tell you where to get your shinai.

[Mankal]

Get to a dojo first. They will tell you where to get your shinai.

Alas......if only there WERE a dojo in my area.....

[tattooedasshole]

Alas......if only there WERE a dojo in my area.....
Look harder. Check the U.S. kendo federation for a dojo list.
http://www.kendo-usa.org/statedojolist.htm
There, i've done half the work for you.
If it's too hard to get to a dojo, give up and play tiddly winks.

[h2o]

Alas......if only there WERE a dojo in my area.....
You'd be surprised to hear how many people have asked that question, and found out that there is a kendo dojo around the corner. But ofcourse, as long as you don't say where you live, no one can help you. :rolleyes:

[Mankal]

Is your nearest dojo well over 100 miles away? I personally can't afford to drive that far. So, do you have any suggestion of an online store to buy from?

Oh.....tiddlywinks if kind of fun btw

[h2o]

If it's too hard to get to a dojo, give up and play tiddly winks.Or move. :)

[Mankal]

You people aren't any help. Out of the 4 people to reply to my original message Genya has been the only helpful person. If this thread is any example of the rest of this board then that would mean that only 1 out of every 4 people actually give a damn? That's sad.

[sainueng]

If you don't at least post a city, no one is going to believe that the closest dojo is 100 miles away. As some others have suggested in other threads, if a kendo dojo really is too far, maybe see if there are other martial arts nearby that appeal to you. We all do kendo and love it, but it is not the only thing. You can always pick it up later on hopefully as your situation changes.

Personally, I hesitate to tell you where to purchase these equipment as I do not want to be responsible for you possibly hurting yourself without proper instruction. I've been practicing kendo for about 10 years now, and my bokken is still fine after all its abuse (which included suika wari, I'm ashamed to say :D) with no maintenance. If you broke 3 in the past year...

[Paikea]

You people aren't any help. Out of the 4 people to reply to my original message Genya has been the only helpful person. If this thread is any example of the rest of this board then that would mean that only 1 out of every 4 people actually give a damn? That's sad.Wow, what gives you your aparrent sense of entitlement?

The critical advice you have received here is that there is no such thing as learning this on your own. If you can't get to a dojo, you don't do kendo/iai/kenjutsu. Otherwise, just use Google and take your chances.

[Mankal]

I live in Waco, Texas. The closest dojo on the list that tattooedasshole gave me was in Austin.

[Paikea]

I live in Waco, Texas. The closest dojo on the list that tattooedasshole gave me was in Austin.One hours, twenty minutes each way - others here do more. Go once a month.

[Mankal]

Wow, what gives you your apparent sense of entitlement?

The critical advice you have received here is that there is no such thing as learning this on your own. If you can't get to a dojo, you don't do kendo/iai/kenjutsu. Otherwise, just use Google and take your chances.

Ok, listen jackjuice. I figured that a forum dedicated to kendo would ultimately end up containing some people willing to assist beginners. I'm not saying you can learn kendo or any other real martial art on your own but it's a damned good way to start. It also doesn't hurt to familiarize yourself with the equipment and basic necessary information of a martial art before you get into it and realize, "Hey, I don't like this. That was a waste."

[Kenzan]

uh oh....
(ducks for cover)

[runsyi]

I'm not saying you can learn kendo or any other real martial art on your own but it's a damned good way to start. It also doesn't hurt to familiarize yourself with the equipment and basic necessary information of a martial art before you get into it and realize, "Hey, I don't like this. That was a waste."

No, it isn't a good way to start. And I'll tell you why I think so... before I set foot in a dojo my line of thought ran somewhat akin to yours. I figured buy some books, familiarize myself with the essentials, etc. Luckily I went to the dojo soon after and had a friend that was already doing Kendo because frankly, I had it all wrong. I can't remember all the funky stuff I did but I do remember that I was bending my left leg, which is a big no-no.

You don't need to get into it right away. Most dojos will let you come and watch to see if you really want to get into Kendo. Heck, at my dojo we'll even let you come without paying one red cent for two weeks while you decide whether or not you want to do this.

[h2o]

I'm not saying you can learn kendo or any other real martial art on your own but it's a damned good way to start.No. You only have one chance to learn the basics. Learn them wrong (which you will, unless someone teaches you) and you will probably have more trouble than neccessary once you go to a real kendo beginners class.


It also doesn't hurt to familiarize yourself with the equipment and basic necessary information of a martial art before you get into it and realize, "Hey, I don't like this. That was a waste."
Familiarizing yourself with concepts of kendo and trying to get a grip on what it is all about i good. Really good.
Buying "equipment" that you have no clue how to use is just waste of money IMHO.
By the way, I'll give you an advice right away: Your attitude is not one that will be encouraged in a dojo. So drop it. Once in kendo you will be told that you do things wrong all the time, and be corrected. So getting used to it now might be a good idea.
Good luck with your future practice. :D

[tattooedasshole]

Ok, listen jackjuice. I figured that a forum dedicated to kendo would ultimately end up containing some people willing to assist beginners. I'm not saying you can learn kendo or any other real martial art on your own but it's a damned good way to start. It also doesn't hurt to familiarize yourself with the equipment and basic necessary information of a martial art before you get into it and realize, "Hey, I don't like this. That was a waste."
As soon as you step into a dojo, then you're a beginner. Untill then, you're just a dumbass.


P.S. Paikea is one of the people who are usually helpful (not an asshole like me). You might want to try being a little bit nicer when you've got your hand out.

[Charuzu]

Wooah!... It's been forever since I last posted here.(Thank you school/suburi)

Here is my advise.

1) Don't "spar"... trust me. I once had you views untill I almost killed my friend. Then I went to this forum. I went through the list of kendo dojo but atlas none were close. But I just lurked untill eventually I heard aboot this great batto-do dojo only 45 mins away from me. So you knever know what will happen.

2) Be willing to change your views. If you want some grade A stupidity feel free to look through my old posts. I have made many mistakes but I move foward.

3) If you are really restless you can weigh your options. What I did was carefuly study kendo online and only did shomen cuts and stuck to basic suburi. However, while I feel it calmend me down it had long lasting issues. I gave myself bad habits and I have to pay for them now. Tis is what h2o was kindly trying to point out.

4)The I go to my dojo 2x a week. It is 45 mins away. Try going to the closest dojo near you 2x a month(It's 1 1/2 hrs... right?). Ask the sensei for "Homework". Trust me. I think you'll like being in a dojo far far more than a backyard.

5) Work on faces and chores. I had to do alot to get my parents to take me. The 'puppy face', 'sad face' and 'I need a past-time' face kata are a must.

6) Ignore the scarcastic post but understand they have a point.

[Neil Gendzwill]

There's nothing in Waco, closest is either Austin or D-FW, both about 100 miles. Nobody here will give you advice on how to self-train as we don't believe that is a correct or safe way to start kendo, no matter your situation. My advice is to either have to be patient and wait until you live near to a dojo, or figure out how to get to where a dojo is.

[Paikea]

Ok, listen jackjuice. I figured that a forum dedicated to kendo would ultimately end up containing some people willing to assist beginners. I'm not saying you can learn kendo or any other real martial art on your own but it's a damned good way to start. It also doesn't hurt to familiarize yourself with the equipment and basic necessary information of a martial art before you get into it and realize, "Hey, I don't like this. That was a waste."Ah, the sass, piss and vinegar of the 13-17 year old male.:silly:

Aloha to you too, Tex. Knock yourself out, so to speak.

[Anime12478]

Ok, listen jackjuice. I figured that a forum dedicated to kendo would ultimately end up containing some people willing to assist beginners. I'm not saying you can learn kendo or any other real martial art on your own but it's a damned good way to start. It also doesn't hurt to familiarize yourself with the equipment and basic necessary information of a martial art before you get into it and realize, "Hey, I don't like this. That was a waste."
Trust me, we have heard it all before, which is why most of us here react the way we do. If there was some sort of sticky to expain this, then maybe things like this would be prevented.

Also, we know that the answers here were not what you wanted to hear. A lot of people come here expecting us to tell you where to get equipment and give tips on how to practice without the aid of a sensei. But we know that it doesn't work that way and we aren't going to butter up the news for anyone here.

If you are using the equipment to just swing around for fun, then that is fine. But finding the equipment is as far as we are going to take you. After that, everything is on your own.

[Ignatz]

Jackjuice? In less than 24 hours the kid is calling you jackjuice. How long do you think it would take for him to quit if he actually went to a dojo. An hour?
Can they put some kind of filter in so that any new thread with the word "spar" in it automatically gets plonked?

[Mr. Donigan]

They're right. Most dojos will let you participate for a week or three while you decide if it's for you. Most will have several students willing to let you borrow a shinai for the first couple classes too. Making you expense nill. However, most on this forum will not give you advice (beyond "go to ao dojo") until you actually go to one. Once you have, you'll find this site full of great friendly kenshi. (OK some are still a little brash) but most of us truely like to help as much as we can.

[Fonsz]

If you don't at least post a city, no one is going to believe that the closest dojo is 100 miles away. As some others have suggested in other threads, if a kendo dojo really is too far, maybe see if there are other martial arts nearby that appeal to you. We all do kendo and love it, but it is not the only thing. You can always pick it up later on hopefully as your situation changes.


Ok just to be a bit brash I would like to add some sense into this travesty. You mean to say that there are other things in life as enjoyable and rewarding beyond Kendo? I don't think so! :shocked:Jackjuice! (what the hell does that mean?)

[Paikea]

:shocked:Jackjuice! (what the hell does that mean?)Ever see Fight Club? Why should you not eat the chowder?

[pgsmith]

Ok, listen jackjuice.
Well, there is no kendo in Waco, but there is a dojo that teaches iaido and kenjutsu as a large part of their curriculum. However, they would probably never forgive me if I sent them someone that actually used the word "jackjuice" in a sentence. :D

What a dweeb. Face sparring is definitely the right thing for you sir! :D

[sainueng]

Ok just to be a bit brash I would like to add some sense into this travesty. You mean to say that there are other things in life as enjoyable and rewarding beyond Kendo? I don't think so! :shocked:Jackjuice! (what the hell does that mean?)

LOL. Ok, I stand corrected. There isn't anything else as enjoyable and rewarding as kendo. Everything else is more troublesome and not as enjoyable/rewarding. ;)

[nodachi]

To the original poster, it's called research. Not everyone advertises. Email the closest dojo, even if it is 200 miles away. Tell them your location and ask if there is anywhere closer. No list is complete and many dojo don't even bother trying to get on the list. So do your homework. Email and see if there is a place closer or someone who lives close to you and you can car pool, take turns, or pay for their gas to get you there.

To everyone else,

Capt. Picard: zzz...zzz...zzz... HUH! Mr. Data! Why didn't you warn me about this sooner!

Mr. Data: I didn't want to bother you with trivial sensor readings again, sir...

Capt. Picard: Dammit! I've been bored ever since we threw the Crusher boy out the air lock and now I have nothing to entertain me... I'll be in my ready room if anything happens... zzz...zzzz...zzzzzzz...

[samurai999]

It is up to sensei and their preferences as to how they teach, but I think a bokken should be used early on to teach ppl how to grip the shinai properly. So many times have I seen on beginners and some more advanced ppl grip the shinai with their palms visible and the end of the tsuka showing. Why do you think ZNKR came up with Bokutou ni yoru kendo no kata?

Tim

[sainueng]

It is up to sensei and their preferences as to how they teach, but I think a bokken should be used early on to teach ppl how to grip the shinai properly. So many times have I seen on beginners and some more advanced ppl grip the shinai with their palms visible and the end of the tsuka showing. Why do you think ZNKR came up with Bokutou ni yoru kendo no kata?

Tim

I agree. Nowadays I let beginners have a few swings with the bokken after a couple of lessons to show them the differences between the shinai and bokken and the reasoning behind the grip. I think it's especially helpful for explaining lining up the V in the grip between the thumb and fingers and tenouchi.

I'm not sure what you mean about palm visible and the end of the tsuka though. :confused: Don't you hold the bokken with the end slightly portruding because of the "endcap" on a real sword and not expose anything on the shinai? I could be wrong. :redface: Not many people pay attention to this part, I think. Not sure what you meant about palm visible...

[samurai999]

I agree. Nowadays I let beginners have a few swings with the bokken after a couple of lessons to show them the differences between the shinai and bokken and the reasoning behind the grip. I think it's especially helpful for explaining lining up the V in the grip between the thumb and fingers and tenouchi.

I'm not sure what you mean about palm visible and the end of the tsuka though. :confused: Don't you hold the bokken with the end slightly portruding because of the "endcap" on a real sword and not expose anything on the shinai? I could be wrong. :redface: Not many people pay attention to this part, I think. Not sure what you meant about palm visible...

As for the tsuka.. Maybe I had the terminology wrong, but I meant the end of the shinai (where you grip) is visible. Not the tip.

As for palms are visible, I meant that the inside of the hand is visible when looking at your group from a Birds eye view.

http://www.geocities.com/covinakendo/aboutus.html
Click on the "holding shinai" part. The pics are kinda small, but its explained sufficiently there.

Tim

[Dr. Hellsing]

i think there should be a big link on the site that says:
anyone who wants to start kendo click here and you'll get all the tips.

then they would read about how not to practice and all that so that would keep away all the people who want to spar w/ bokkens...

[ne0r]

Hey, that's a good idea! Let's do this! ;D
We need a little homepage and a good place on google, so everyone who googles "kendo" gets there first before everything other..

XD