Bored of seeing the "Calendar" thread in the jodo section

[Andy_Watson]

Aren't you?

Let's talk about the proliferation in thick jo's over the sleeker versions which are much better for SMR/Seitei jodo.

Wodjafinkisgoinon?

[Aden]

What is a thick jo? I assume you don't mean those 1 1/2 inch wide karate jo (source of much embarasment to me at my second ever seitei seminar - my normal dimension jo had warped a bit so I brought along a karate jo for the first day... sensei was not amused and threw it away).

My current Sakura jo's look to be a tiny bit (maybe 1 mm at most, probably less) wider than most of the other genuine Japanese jo in the club and a little bit heavier.

I like the weight, though it is still nowhere near as heavy as an old Rembukan jo with 50 years of sweat in it. It is however definitely both narrower and heavier than the cheaper (non Japanese) jo in the dojo - I assume the Taiwanese oak is less dense or something.

Aden

[Kim Taylor]

Thick as in 16/16th inch as opposed to about 15/16 inch I suspect... I prefer the latter, and I prefer a really light one. With 245 pounds to put behind it I don't need a lot of weight in the jo to move a sword.

But there's been a tradition of aikido jo around at 1 1/16 inch for a very long time and most beginners also like heavier woods since it's easier to smack the jo aside with the weight of the jo.

Just some observations from a fellow who sells them and uses them.

Kim Taylor

[Budo Angel]

Back to metric, there's a lot between sleeker thinner (usual in Japan) 24mm, and the thicker 27mm Jo - my apologies I can't comprehend inches measurements let along fractions... :cheeky:

As to weight, some aikido friends waved theirs & I had a go, they were SO heavy, like lumps of lead :down: but I am reminded aiki people are holding on to the jo one end, when invariably a person is holding on the other end being thrown. :cool: so it needs to be strong and Jodo is thus quite different in techniques.

As to suppliers, well they have something to sell, they need to sell to the max audience, may be why we're seeing only 27mm thicker size as the "norm" - but definately 24mm is available, but some effort may be required buying this size rather than the standard thick/aiki style one (unless you're in Japan when both 24 & 27 seem to be more commonly available). Here you have to pointedly ask/check.

Personally I just want to be allowed to paint it :grin:

[ScottUK]

Personally I just want to be allowed to paint it :grin:No need. Just give Playwell a call...

http://www.playwell.co.uk/store/acatalog/joprism.jpg

[Budo Angel]

ScottUK - laugh out loud...don't show my sempai :p

[ScottUK]

He's probably got one hidden for secret ninjer keiko at the bottom of his garden... :D

[Andy_Watson]

What do you think I've been doing all day today. Can't wait to get the stars 'n' stripes jo that I've ordered.

Speaking seriously for a change, I am a bit frustrated with the lack of access to good quality, light and light oak jo. They all seem to be telegraph poles at the moment and highly polished or varnished to boot. They are impossible to use quickly and all the forms end up being clunky. Even the Eurobogu ones are a little bit on the heavy side.

One of our dojo members had an ultralight jo from years back and it was very interesting to use. It had very little momentum and you could feel all the impacts against the sword. It really showed you where control was lacking though as it would react to any slight flinches of movement.

[ScottUK]

What about the big suppliers - can't they get you something decent? How about Koei or Aoi?

[runsyi]

He's probably got one hidden for secret ninjer keiko at the bottom of his garden... :D

Like you could hide one of those.

[Fudo-Shin]

Yes, I am tired of seeing the Calender thread. Thanks for reviving the Jodo section.

I recently made a mistake upon buying a new Jo while in Japan. I was rushed and although I checked it was straight I didn't notice it was thicker than a usual Jo, but not one of those huge Aikido Jo's. This one is 24mm. Anyway, I persisted with it ever since and I must say that I really like the extra weight of it now. I have been doing Jodo for about one year now so maybe it is a beginner thing but for now I am happy with the thicker Jo.

[Kim Taylor]

What about the big suppliers - can't they get you something decent? How about Koei or Aoi?

Well I'm holding a pro-budo 24mm (15/16) shiro kashi jo in my hand right now.

It's what we sell as a jodo jo through sdksupplies.com and have been for quite a while now.

Kim Taylor

[Fudo-Shin]

My current Sakura jo's look to be a tiny bit (maybe 1 mm at most, probably less) wider than most of the other genuine Japanese jo in the club and a little bit heavier.

Is it actually made from Sakura or is this a name of the make or something?? Isn't Sakura, Cherry Blossom??

[Aden]

Sakura is a shop near the Tokyo Budokan - their bokken and jo are recognisable by the logo on the end, because of the convenient location their jo are relatively common (in my limited circle of acquaintance anyway). It is all normal white oak gear, not cherry blossom wood :) - have to ask a wood aware person like Kim Taylor if cherry could be used at all, given the Japanese cherry blossom tree looks all gnarly to me....

The range of jo that unaware (or just evil minded) shops (especially here in Australia) sell jodo people seems endless, one beginner in our the dojo was sold a tapered jo, @ 27 or 28 mm in the middle and narrower than usual at the ends - as you would expect it did not work well for our purposes, and my first genuine japanese jo while correct in dimension turned out to be varnished, wound up sanding it back to try and stop it sticking on humid days.

Aden

[Aden]

Ooohh - just went into the Playwell link listed earlier - most of their jo are tapered / toothpick / diameter length varies...... amazing, you can get a 1 inch centre diameter tapering to 1/2 inch (from @ 24 to 12 mm for metric people) in prismatic red blue silver or gold....

[Kim Taylor]

Fruitwood (cherry, apple, pear, biwa etc. etc.) is tight grained, often very dense and with beautiful grain.

It's usually not all that tough though, as defined by how much punishment it can take before it breaks. This is due to short grain and often to that gnarly way it grows especially if it's being pruned for fruit production.

Shiro kashi is dense, hard, and reasonably flexible. It's a very good wood for weapons.

Hickory is less dense, less hard, (dents more easily) but is extremely flexible and very tough.

Both (and all wood) will fail eventually. Neither will fail as fast as fruitwood tends to fail.

Fruitwood is pretty brittle and has short grain. It snaps in half. Shiro kashi is less brittle, somewhat longer grain and tends to snap in half when it fails. Hickory is extremely hard to snap in half, it splits when it fails due to very long fibres.

So all is compromise. Over the years I've bounced back and forth between shiro kashi and hickory as woods I like using.... I tend to use shiro kashi mostly these days.

Another consideration. Oaks in general (shiro kashi is an evergreen oak) do tend to get less tough with age. They seem to continue to dry out as they get older (dry equals less flexible, more brittle but also harder and more dense).

On to the finish.

Pro-Budo supplies a lot of weapons into Japan. A lot. The Japanese like very white wood. So, big secret here folks, the weapons tend to be stained white and they are varnished.

I don't care about the stain, it's irrelevent to the weapon itself and doesn't hide the grain so you can see what you're using but I don't like the varnish and I take it off with a bit of sanding for my own weapons.

Or I use some of the unfinished weapons we get for the "sdksupplies" brand jo, which are hand finished with tung oil instead.

You can get any standard weapon from Japan with the stain and varnish, sand off the varnish and finish it with some tung oil for a much better feel. You usually don't have to sand through the stain either.

However, as always all is compromise. By breaking through the varnish you expose the wood to humidity and you increase the risk the the jo will warp and unwarp with the seasons.

So some global economics, and a bit about wood and finishes, hope it was somewhat helpful.

Kim Taylor


Sakura is a shop near the Tokyo Budokan - their bokken and jo are recognisable by the logo on the end, because of the convenient location their jo are relatively common (in my limited circle of acquaintance anyway). It is all normal white oak gear, not cherry blossom wood :) - have to ask a wood aware person like Kim Taylor if cherry could be used at all, given the Japanese cherry blossom tree looks all gnarly to me....

The range of jo that unaware (or just evil minded) shops (especially here in Australia) sell jodo people seems endless, one beginner in our the dojo was sold a tapered jo, @ 27 or 28 mm in the middle and narrower than usual at the ends - as you would expect it did not work well for our purposes, and my first genuine japanese jo while correct in dimension turned out to be varnished, wound up sanding it back to try and stop it sticking on humid days.

Aden

[Budo Angel]

24mm (15/16)

Thanks for that Kim, I had no idea !! As for all the woods "education"..


good quality, light and light oak jo

...think chaps/chappets should just stick (pun alert) with finding this, this is a task enough for most jodo people. Think turning up with a pyschodelic coloured jo, might have my sensei/sempai laugh even more at my jodo (than they do already) :lick: