Tying the men

[Kenzan]

Hello,
I am sorry to bother with this question.
I looked at the search feature and I could not find topic information.
Does anyone know of a hyperlink to a page or other resource which shows how to properly tie the Men?

I thank you in advance for any advise.

[bobdonny]

i just got my bogu today so i was loooking at this..... in my case the himo was not attached and i was looking at the 2 ways to attach to grille, on the bottom (4th rung) or top. I actually settled for 2nd rung.

I'll see what my club says.

but try this http://www.anukendo.org/docs/Beginners%20Manual5thEd2006.pdf

[Ignatz]

I actually settled for 2nd rung.

I'll see what my club says.
It's usually not a great idea to make up your own way of doing things when you first start. I realize that getting your first bogu is very exciting and you want to try it on but you would be better served by taking it to your teacher and asking how to do it.

As far as tying the men, do it the way your teacher does it then in a couple or five years when you have a little bit of an idea about stuff then maybe experiment with other ways.

Make sure you let us know how disoriented you were first time you practiced with bogu.

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you got a standard set of bogu and didn't specify otherwise, you probably have the correct parts to tie kanto style (from the bottom). There should be two leather pieces and the himo should be 7 shaku (about 7 feet long). To tie the other way, you need a single leather piece and the himo should be 8 shaku.

Normally we tie them on the fourth rung from the bottom. Your sensei will show you how.

[Kenzan]

I thank you for that excellent resource.
I am also specifically seeking detailed illustration instructions on the procedure.
For example, I do know that that each Himo line crosses at least once through the top grill, but then I am lost at that point. Does it cross over again?
I could ask Sensei again and probably will, but after twice asking for help tying, and since I cannot see what they are doing with my Men on, I wish to try and practice as much as possible so that I can put on my equipment quickly and correctly.
Again thank you for the help so far. :)

[bobdonny]

It's usually not a great idea to make up your own way of doing things when you first start. I realize that getting your first bogu is very exciting and you want to try it on but you would be better served by taking it to your teacher and asking how to do it.

As far as tying the men, do it the way your teacher does it then in a couple or five years when you have a little bit of an idea about stuff then maybe experiment with other ways.

Make sure you let us know how disoriented you were first time you practiced with bogu.

hmmm, smart ass....

For all i know everyone in my club could have it there, i never checked before this morning, hence it really aint gonna hurt anyone if i have to move it.
I actually use the Jeff boderick book as a point of reference (where not permissable to ask someone) and there all were on the 2nd rung . I only realised there were other ways looking for an answer to the question.

Looking at google images tho (by no means cannon) 2nd rung is also common.

Either way, i'd hardly call it "my own way" if i was doing it my own way, i'd probably go for a hurling helmet ;)

[Neil Gendzwill]

Kenzan, you can probably find everything you need here (http://www6.big.or.jp/~budogu/manu/topm.html).

[bobdonny]

Neil does the .exe or .zip work for you? (i downloaded both)

Doesn't work now (i end up with blank pages)
And it didn't work last week.

I have the latest versions of Abode and have no other issues with other pdf docs.

[Neil Gendzwill]

You need to install the Japanese font pack for Adobe Acrobat, get it here (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/acrrasianfontpack.html). I don't know why it shows completely blank without the Japanese fonts as there are pictures and English text in the document, but it does.

[Kenzan]

SUGOKKU YOKATTA!!!!
:):)

PERFECT!
This is what I was seeking!
Gendzwill san, honto ni, Arigatou Gozaimasu!

[bobdonny]

Thats Perfect.
Thanks Neil.

[Ignatz]

hmmm, smart ass....

For all i know everyone in my club could have it there, i never checked before this morning, hence it really aint gonna hurt anyone if i have to move it.
I actually use the Jeff boderick book as a point of reference (where not permissable to ask someone) and there all were on the 2nd rung . I only realised there were other ways looking for an answer to the question.

Looking at google images tho (by no means cannon) 2nd rung is also common.

Either way, i'd hardly call it "my own way" if i was doing it my own way, i'd probably go for a hurling helmet ;)

You will also find that it will fit better if you take the chip off your shoulder. Here is a picture from Dublin Kobukai webpage.
http://www.dublinkendo.com/equipment.php

Sorry for having the audacity to offer you advice, google images are a much better source than asking your sensei. Hey, maybe everybody in your dojo does have it on the second rung but you didn't know that when you decided how you were going to do it.

[Andou]

You will also find that it will fit better if you take the chip off your shoulder. Here is a picture from Dublin Kobukai webpage.
http://www.dublinkendo.com/equipment.php

Sorry for having the audacity to offer you advice, google images are a much better source than asking your sensei. Hey, maybe everybody in your dojo does have it on the second rung but you didn't know that when you decided how you were going to do it.

Now would it be okay for him to call you a smart ass? :D

[Ignatz]

Now would it be okay for him to call you a smart ass? :D
Don't encourage him.

[bobdonny]

Now would it be okay for him to call you a smart ass? :D

hehe :smiley:

I dont think a second time is necessary. ;)

Nice pic from the dublin club, should I post one from the dallas club for you?
Or did you just pick a club at random cos its in the same country as my flag in the corner :ponder:

[Ignatz]

Or did you just pick a club at random cos its in the same country as my flag in the corner :ponder:
December 29, 2005

Hey all,
Im new here and new to kendo (hopefully start over the next few weeks)
As far as i know there are 3 kendo clubs in ireland.
And 1 in cork, where i am from.. . .

Do you refer to everybody that tries to help you as a smart ass? Thick headed clown.

[tattooedasshole]

Do you refer to everybody that tries to help you as a smart ass?
It's better to be a smart ass than a dumb ass!

[Kitsune]

I thought they were the same, but one of them just act like he was smart.

[Ignatz]

I thought they were the same, but one of them just act like he was smart.
OK, I'll bite, is there a point or did you just feel the need to say something?

[bobdonny]

Ignatz, sorry dude but your last 4 posts have no coherency.

I know your think you have a point, but really, do you?

Cork does not equal Dublin, which is sooooooooo far removed from tying a himo on the second rung, and even soooo much farther removed from myself trying to offer assistance to kenzan (which is the purpose of this thread... not your patronizing and pedantic comments)

Once again, what is your objective for commenting in this thread? To expose my ignorance/newbisim/fraility/etc?

Tell me and get straight to the point. Cos your just wasting what was a valuable thread to newcomers!
Are you really this grumpy in real life?

[bobdonny]

OK, I'll bite, is there a point or did you just feel the need to say something?

I imagine Kitsune means....

A dumass cannot help himself but a smartass brings it on himself thru acting smart. An observation - not an accusation.

You know, you can rephrase your comments to a more conversational tone as opposed to adversarial. She is from another country where english is not native, as you could gather from her other posts!

[Kitsune]

Thanx a lot, bobdonny, I could not explain it better, cos acctully I can not explain it better... Yes, in Chile we speak spanish, and most of the people here don't even know how to say hello... I can speak it better than write it and, probably, that's why my observation didn't turn out ok.

[Ignatz]

Tell me and get straight to the point. Cos your just wasting what was a valuable thread to newcomers!
My objective, if you would pull your head out of your ass for a moment, was to give you the sound advice that you should ask your sensei but you decided to insist that you are right and try to insult me. Better people than you have tried and failed.
You don't want advice because supposedly you can google some picture and pass on your extensive knowledge to someone else who is just as much a beginner as you and maybe knows even less than you do. It makes no difference to me how you tie your himo or what you saw in some picture somewhere. I really don't give a rats patoot what you do even though you don't have a clue about what you are doing. You don't need advice because, like many people, you are afraid to admit that you don't know something and won't ask.

Now I could have said that in the beginning but I'm just not that grumpy. Somehow you take offense when I said:

It's usually not a great idea to make up your own way of doing things when you first start. I realize that getting your first bogu is very exciting and you want to try it on but you would be better served by taking it to your teacher and asking how to do it.
I am at a loss to understand how you could take that as adversarial. You respond by calling me a smart ass. So all I can say is do what ever you want, and pretty much go f**k yourself.
And I'm not even grumpy when I say that.
Did that have any coherency? Or did you just say that as a device in a feeble attempt to cover up your ignorance? Maybe if I say it in Spanish you will understand it better.

[Omnis]

Ignatz ftw. I agree, man. Bob, what's with all the hostile preconception?

[Andou]

Not wanting to sound like a meddler, but, I'm going to have to agree with Ignatz, even though you may not agree with the means. It's not so much the point as "wasting valuable thread space" because that post wasn't exactly the most relevant either. However, the fact remains--you follow your sensei and sempai's orders in dojo and that is where kendo is. So shouldn't you be seeking their advice instead of someone who could potentially be a country away from you?

Going up to the sensei and sempai can be somewhat intimidating, but they are the most valuable resource we have.

[yoda-waza]

Wow, this was one boring thread til someone decided to light Ignatz's fuse. Gotta love his on-line oji-waza. You others are outclassed. Back on subject - the answer is always with your sensei, as already stated.

[bobdonny]

My objective, if you would pull your head out of your ass for a moment, was to give you the sound advice that you should ask your sensei but you decided to insist that you are right and try to insult me. Better people than you have tried and failed.

How bout you pull your own head out of your own older and wiser ass!
My very first post in this thread was that, i did something, but will go ask at my class....

i just got my bogu today so i was loooking at this..... in my case the himo was not attached and i was looking at the 2 ways to attach to grille, on the bottom (4th rung) or top. I actually settled for 2nd rung.
I'll see what my club says.

How can you give advise to something i already stated? i.e. asking at my club?
Strange fish.



You don't want advice because supposedly you can google some picture and pass on your extensive knowledge to someone else who is just as much a beginner as you and maybe knows even less than you do. It makes no difference to me how you tie your himo or what you saw in some picture somewhere. I really don't give a rats patoot what you do even though you don't have a clue about what you are doing. You don't need advice because, like many people, you are afraid to admit that you don't know something and won't ask. Again you seem to enjoy ranting off in gerry maguire mode, with a hint of "YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH".

The Kendo Book i referenced as the "2nd rung himo method" appears to have been co-written by a member of the Kendo-World team, and hence i would give it a bit more credance than a google search. Also if you do a search on these very forums you will find a thread on tying a men himo with 6/7 methods.



Now I could have said that in the beginning but I'm just not that grumpy. Somehow you take offense when I said:
Well let me just re-bold you first post from my prespective.


It's usually not a great idea to make up your own way of doing things when you first start. I realize that getting your first bogu is very exciting and you want to try it on but you would be better served by taking it to your teacher and asking how to do it.

As far as tying the men, do it the way your teacher does it then in a couple or five years when you have a little bit of an idea about stuff then maybe experiment with other ways.

Make sure you let us know how disoriented you were first time you practiced with bogu.

Seems to me you just want to bitch and moan, otherwise you could have just said... "ask someone more experienced" {even that would have been rethoric!}- so dont even try the helpful card.



I am at a loss to understand how you could take that as adversarial. You respond by calling me a smart ass. So all I can say is do what ever you want, and pretty much go f**k yourself.
And I'm not even grumpy when I say that.
Did that have any coherency? Or did you just say that as a device in a feeble attempt to cover up your ignorance? Maybe if I say it in Spanish you will understand it better.
Not much point replying in kind there, cept maybe;

No, that was not coherrent, save for an outright attack
Are you really still at a loss on the adversarial angle cos that last paragragh seems to sum you right about up!
As for "go f**k yourself" rest assured the sentiment is quite returned.


You know what Ignatz, I think bottom line you assume too much, maybe you feel justified by being here on this forum for much longer than me and seeing new people come and go, but you really shouldn't cast everyone in the same boat.
But I guess thats what bullies do best...

@the others, sorry for the way this is going, Ignatz seems to want to start a flame with new people for whatever reason...
His arguement appears at face value to stem from trying to help me by encouraging me to ask my sensai / sempai. I had stated this in my first post, and wouldnt have minded it being re-said (i.e. a-la Neil's post), but i do object to the manner and tone of, frankly all of Ignatz replies - that i dont find helpful.

[Zedar]

http://kenytelenekvagyunk.freeblog.hu/Files/retard.jpg

I would like to point out that any offence taken by this was not intended and it is simply meant to aid the laughing-off-the-problem process.

[bobdonny]

http://kenytelenekvagyunk.freeblog.hu/Files/retard.jpg

I would like to point out that any offence taken by this was not intended and it is simply meant to aid the laughing-off-the-problem process.

ahhh man thats so not PC, nice sentiment tho ;)

[bullet08]

there's two standard way to tie the men. kanto and kansai style. however, if kansai style is too much of a work, i have heard some will tie on men in kanto style, but using lower bar on the men gane to get the tight fit of kansai without doing all the threading and what not.

i like kansai style. that's how my sensei does his, and it gives rather nice tight fit.

pete

[Ignatz]

i do object to the manner and tone of, frankly all of Ignatz replies - that i dont find helpful.
Your objection is overruled.

[bobdonny]

Your objection is overruled.
hmmmm sure, Jack.

[kartoffelngeist]

Your objection is overruled.

got to love the legal mind...

[tattooedasshole]

hmmmm sure, Jack.
Do you wear a helmet to cross the street?

[ne0r]

Yo guys. Sorry, you both (Ignatz, Bobdonny) might not like my post, but here I go:
Bobdonny: What you have taken as an attack was just like a joke. Not offensive at all. Being in bogu first time, for example, is, afaik, very disorienting. So Ignatz tells you just to post your experience.
None of Ignatz posts were offensive until you started.

Ignatz: You're pretty much right, but, especially at your age, you should, IMO, be able to handle someone much younger than you, without things like "f**k yourself" . But OK, I can understand something like this is pissing someone off very much.

No offense intended. Just what I gotta say.

Now stop fighting and get back to the topic or stop it at all.

[Mugu]

Yo guys. Sorry, you both (Ignatz, Bobdonny) might not like my post, but here I go:
Bobdonny: What you have taken as an attack was just like a joke. Not offensive at all. Being in bogu first time, for example, is, afaik, very disorienting. So Ignatz tells you just to post your experience.
None of Ignatz posts were offensive until you started.

Ignatz: You're pretty much right, but, especially at your age, you should, IMO, be able to handle someone much younger than you, without things like "f**k yourself" . But OK, I can understand something like this is pissing someone off very much.

No offense intended. Just what I gotta say.

Now stop fighting and get back to the topic or stop it at all.

Well said. Ain't Ignatz also Irish? How come you two don't get along? ahhh too much alcohol for both of you.

Oh btw, this one put a smile one my face :) :


Make sure you let us know how disoriented you were first time you practiced with bogu.

Best Kendo memory besides the bruises

[Paikea]

You know what Ignatz, I think bottom line you assume too much, maybe you feel justified by being here on this forum for much longer than me and seeing new people come and go, but you really shouldn't cast everyone in the same boat.
But I guess thats what bullies do best...
Personally, I'll give lots of latitude to the folks who've been there and done that, than the ones who haven't. They've earned their indiscretions...

BD, a bit less swagger if you please.