Developing Ki

[William Honda]

How many of you work on developing your Ki?

Were you ever taught how to develop the hara?

How much of your kendo training or lessons focus on this?

Do you think it matters?

[alexpollijr]

William


I somehow believe that these 'energy' issues in kendo are too esoterical for me to understand.
Essentially I think that kendo has only two aspects, mental and physical.

When shinai meet at the court, the clash is first between the minds involved, some kind of psychological battle which could be described as Seme(ru) and then physical, since you need full eye-body coordination to take advantage of the opportunity generated by the seme.

Also, someone else, Neil I believe, has once said something like 'it's so much more easy to be skillfull when you're not struggling for breath'.

But I'd like to read peoples thoughts about it also.

- Alexandre

[William Honda]

Alex,

Thanks for posting. I thought this subject would get more hits than one (so far).

I guess it is not emphasized so much. Actually it is not emphasized in my dojo either. I kinda wanted to know if it was elsewhere.

It is interesting though, don’t you think? The hara is where the ki is “housed” and where power is generated from – yet not much is taught about it. Was this not an integral part of lessons learned by the bushi? I wonder if it is found through self-discovery.

Maybe this subject is too esoteric as you stated.

[JSchmidt]

Well, it as rather esoteric!. I'm neither religious nor superstitious, but I've still seen and experienced things that have no logical explanation...but do I believe in ki?..I don't know.
Regardless, developing hara is good whether you believe in ki or not. It provides core stability, explosive power, etc and with that a higher level of control, which gives an advantage over the guy with a 'lesser' hara.
There certainly is such a thing as projecting yourself and imposing on the opponent (and/or audience)..whether it comes down to the same factors mentioned above, which will be projected in the body language, maybe.
Kendo got a handful of those 'weird' concepts..just the terms 'pressure' and 'seme' (not to forget zanshin!) are all concepts which can't really be taught, nor explained in (at least to me) a real logical manner.

Jakob

[mingshi]

To add a few words... I would say that, even if you believe there is such a thing as "Ki", it should be the result of the training, and not the purpose of it.

[Raígma]

Greetings.
I must have missed this thread start while I was in St. Petersburg.
But I will give my two cents now.

I anyway wanted to start a thread aksing how many of you believe in ZEN or Buddhism as a background to your Kendo.
I myself can't say that I am member of any religion. As well as I am not any member of a certain group.
My way is finding my own religion by taking those things and manners of all religions that I think of as "good".
I say "good" because it is a question of feeling and your personal attitude and not of logic or responsibility.

I do believe that there is a force that may not be declared or gripped by maths, physics chemistry and science at all.
I may sound like one of the Star Wars freaks (Indeed I do like
Star Wars) but the principle and the idea is not coming from
there. I do not know too much about buddhism and Zen but I think the Reiki and the Ki in general are comparable to that force.
I can not say wether I have a strong believe or not.
All I do is to remember me all the time that this force is there
and that I am able to "control" it in a certain way.
Don't get me wrong people. I don't speak of flying in mid air
but I think that you can push yourself in Kendo or things in general to the borders of physics or whatever.
I guess mankind is still waiting for wonders but not willingly to strive for them themselves. (No, using bombs and rockets and developing more lethal machines is no wonder to me.)

After having been in Russia my mind is spinning. These days I
try to get back in this rythm that is comforting your own mind and
soul.
To enforce the perception of Ki or this force I do meditation and Mudras. I guess it is very helpful, no matter what you are trying
to do. I can't tell you anything ueberdimensional but I know that
at least the attitude I developed while practicing Kendo, Meditation and Mudras my mind and my soul have evolved in a new way and it helped me very much to live my very own life.
As I said... I am no master and I don't have a certain teacher
that gives me tips. All I learnt came from books and own ideas.
It is a rather experimental way.
I didn't come too far yet. I began about a year ago (as I did with Kendo) and I am only seventeen. I feel as if I just waked up.

May the force be with you. =)

[nodachi]

Doing something like Tai Chi or Chi qong (sp?) may help for one to explore their ki. It is difficult to find it in Kendo, unless you are far down the road of kendo journeys. But from personal experience, arts like tai chi or chi qong help you to feel it much sooner. Then you can take it from there and try and find it in your kendo.

Just my 2 cents, I have felt sort of what chi/ki feels like from these other arts, but I have yet to ever get that sensation from my Kendo. Gimme 40 years and I might add more to this thread.

[Chusan]

Developing Ki?
Yes. Try practising Kendo...

[William Honda]

Raigma,

My original sensei (not kendo) was the one who introduced me to Ki, hara, and developing the hara. Our mokuso sessions were not regulated by a “fixed” amount of time. Sometimes we would mokuso for half or more of the class and then get a lecture. Other times it was 5 minutes then keiko.

During mokuso he would walk around and correct students posture. If you were taking a nap – you were hit by a shinai, hard!

I cannot say that I have developed ki – no way. My hara is weaker than before – I have not been practicing it.

It is as if sensei gave us the tip of the iceberg and purposefully let it trail off. If you wanted more of it you had to go and get it.

After that long preamble…. I would say that there is little to none of Zen or Buddhism as a background. Just what you read above (that is not Buddhism) and book reading on Zen (not practicing)

[Stan]

In the 5 or 6 six years that I have been doing kendo I tell the new guys in our club that really I have only done kendo for about 10 seconds. What I mean is that I experienced this one time where I saw an open target and my body just hit without even thinking about it. I was a little "freaked out" by that at the time. I am not certain if this was ki but for that brief instant I was totally concentrated on kendo. I am anxiously awaiting its return.

Stan

[emitbrownne]

When asked why we do shouting and holding our breath in Kendo I tried a little experiment....

I faced a questioner unarmoured. I said to him I will hit you on the head with this shinai... trust me it will only be light and will not hurt. (naturally he did not believe me).

I steadied myself ..... let out Ki... and he backed up.
this made me think... perhaps the projection of Ki needs to be a lot stronger for a practitioner of Kendo... especially one who wears armour..
Ki has a lot to do with projecting your will to kill (I believe) and in todays society and with the sport aspect of Kendo taking over, people are less likely to be affected by it.

I think Ki can be developed... it is a lot of confidence projection and the ability to out-psych your opponent...

sorry for the raqmble... and sorry if it did not make a lot of sense... I'm sooooo tired :)

[chidokan]

I have several hara exercises that I use to teach my students and myself... try this one! Put your heels together and lift up on your toes. Notice your cheeks squeeze together? Next tense your stomach as if pushing it into the floor. Now do both together, if you are not used to the feeling it is hard to do both at the same time. Get the feeling and then try stepping forward and using these muscles to cut with - no power from the arms BTW.
I now have a vision of people doing this in front of their machines...and getting strange looks from their better half..:D

Tim Hamilton

[smith]

Another - when in mokuso, breathe in deeply through nose allowing your chest to expand fully, hold the breath about 20 secs, then press the breath down by pushing out your stomach and hold another 10-20 secs, then exhale.

[Inouye02]

hey stuttering willie honda, is that like when you go unko ?

[William Honda]

Inouye 02,

Yep, that the basic way of explaining it that everyone can relate to.

[Inouye02]

kote m m m m m men !

[M.K. Kawai]

Hey Inouye,

I got a TsuKI to fix your stuttering. :D

I don't think I've ever heard of Ki explained that way :rolleyes: When I think of Ki I think of the unbendable arm. I'll show it to you the next time. It's a cool trick to do :cool:

MKK

[Marine_Boy]

The hara is the region of one's lower abdomen, whilst the tandan is a point located roughly 2-3 inches below the naval (belly button).

One of the excercises that I to to improve my hara / tandan is to sit seiza, close my eyes and breath deeply into using my diaphram and not lungs whilst keeping the lower abdomen extended.

The posture of the seiza is very important and one should not have any dwelling thoughts, but just concentrate on the tandan.

This form of practice assists in the projection of ki.

Ki IMHO has psycological aspects to it, e.g. in chudan, you can see / sense/ feel if the stance is correct since one feels "threatened", similarly, a clenched fist does not seem to project ki whilst a an opened hand with fingers outstretched does.

Go figure...

Stan

[William Honda]

What little hara I have developed (not the beer gut one) I find helps me from flying when hit with a hard taiatari. It does not prevent me from backing up or getting turned kaddywampus (depending on angle of hit and who is hitting me). I have not been knocked to the floor until this past April. I'd like to think that was a fluke (wishful thinking?).

[m_french]

Kaddywampus?!?!!?!?!?!?:beard:

[Old Warrior]

I agree with Alex that "that these 'energy' issues in kendo are too esoteric for me to understand". But having spent some time training in other disciplines (forgive me Mr. H) I have some personal conclusions. The first is that the ability to move quickly is greatly affected by the degree of your relaxation at the instant of your beginng to move. If you have cleared your mind of extraneous concerns and are in a state of relaxation there is no need to first "untense" some muscles before tensing others. Second is the concept of focus. If all of your energy, without reserve, is concentrated at a point in time/space and then instantaneously relaxed, not only are you ready for the next action, but you have not wasted your energy in executing the inital attack (cut, strike, kick, lunge). I have found that some people are simply unable to commit everything they have to an action (whatever it may be). To be a good "whatever" (kenshi, karateka or even baseball player) it takes the ability to swing, punch, kick, etc. with "everything" you have, without reserve. There are many good exercises for relaxation and for improving the ability to move quickly. Both subjects are discussed in other threads. The closest I can come to understanding "ki" is the attempt at mastery of my energy.

[Hongsermeier]

Kaddywampus?!?!!?!?!?!?

Yeah, the feeling you get when run into by m_french.

Mr Honda did you happen to grow up in the midwest??

[Paburo]

alex, i don't think KI necessarily means something esoteric or mystique.

(quoting an spanish karateka/aikidoka from gorinkai.com in a quickie translation.)

3 ways to explain ki:

-ki doesn't exist. everything you try to explain using the term 'ki' can be explained thru physical mechanics, biophysics and psychology. there is no need to postulate a 'mysterious force'. it all can be explained cientifically.

-ki exists absolutely. it can be used to increase your strenght, throw ppl away, etc. the subjective experience shows that the 'ki' or 'internal energy' is real.

-ki may or not exist. it's a useful model. this model lets us visualize how your strenght is increased, how you canalize your energy to be able to throw your opponent, etc. If someone comes up with a better model(for instance, something easier to visualize) to explain these things we could use it.

[William Honda]

Hongsermeier,

Nope, I grew up about 3500 miles away. I love the Midwest though.


I don't know how I pick up some of these terms. I also use "hell in a handbasket".

[Nishi]

I am ex-ki society member, and can say i have seen amazing things done with the mind and body co-ordinated. I agree with Paburo that "ki" can be explained, however, people tend to talk fantasy when it cant be explained instantly.

I think its really quite simple, the mind is wound up to tightly, the body is always tense as a result, we worry about nothing important (most of the time), we are concerned about ourselves more than the people around us, our attention is drawn inward. Caution has replaced openess, and this is what (i think) stops us from extending ki, or as we say in kendo, projecting a positive spirit.