is this guy's footwork acceptable?

[Twobitmage]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5801322549414297230&q=kendo

look at the tall guy's footwork during fumikomi. His lifts his left leg pretty high off the ground. He's quick, but the footwork looks ugly to me.

anyone have a take on that?

[ahmed61086]

Yeh, thats a bad habit, or maybe he is just doing it for the tournament, because by leaning his body foward he can get a faster Men, but it is very off balanced and weak. Thats not something you should do.

[ahmed61086]

BTW, who won that match? I didnt see any points given, even though it seems like the tall guy had that realy nice katsugi Men but they didnt give it to him.

[Ignatz]

I was at that tournament and that was a good match. Both players (I think both yondan) are better than me so I have no comment.

[taganahan]

eeks!! same problem as mine, though i do it because i can't reach men. still, sensei says i should eliminate it cause i'm not moving forward, instead i just go up when i do it.

~taganahan

[ahmed61086]

I guess I should have taken Ignats approach....next time.

[Twobitmage]

I was at that tournament and that was a good match. Both players (I think both yondan) are better than me so I have no comment.

yeah, I mean I'm not saying they're bad, but that one thing really bothered me.

[tantadi]

I think both their kamae and footwork suck for yondan.

[ahmed61086]

I thought everything was good except for that left leg kick. Which my sensie tells us not to do. Also, the superman Men. Not good for the lower back.

[Ignatz]

I think both their kamae and footwork suck for yondan.
Wow, don't hold back, tell us what you really think.:rolleyes:
BTW the guy won. The girl is a very strong player though so he had to be very wary about getting too close and attacked from quite a distance which might account for the foot thing.

[Old Warrior]

The girl is a very strong player though so he had to be very wary about getting too close and attacked from quite a distance which might account for the foot thing.

This discussion and the video is a good example of proper behavior of a player who is a foot taller and probably 50+ pounds heavier fighting with a smaller opponent. You don't see a freight train attempt to hit men and run over the opponent.

[tantadi]

Wow, don't hold back, tell us what you really think.:rolleyes:
BTW the guy won. The girl is a very strong player though so he had to be very wary about getting too close and attacked from quite a distance which might account for the foot thing. It was straight from the heart, I will not say which grade I thought they had initially..:eek:.

[samurai999]

I've seen MUCH worse for 4dan. They actually both look ok to me. The tall guy has a bit of Jp. High school kendo in him so thats prolly why he leans forward that much.

[tango]

I see a lot of bend in the guy's left leg, but.. this is shiai and I've seen quite a bit of anomolies in that context..

[tantadi]

So all of you think her kamae is good?? Nothing wrong with it?

[Ignatz]

She is compensating for the height difference.

[rainmaker]

Actually, short one, female Kendoka, lost this game. She went out of the line twice so she end up getting two habsoku. Later, they played again one more time and tall guy, Tanaka sensei, 4th dan, won that match. I cannot comment about his kendo but I had a chance to do geiko with him couple of times. He was super fast with lot of energy.

I personally think once Kendoka becomes 6th dan or higher, they are really focussing on good basic Kendo. Up to that point, most Kendokas are more focus on shiai style, especially younger ones. Personally, I don't have any problem with that. One can argue that once you have bad habits, it is very hard to correct them.




http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5801322549414297230&q=kendo

look at the tall guy's footwork during fumikomi. His lifts his left leg pretty high off the ground. He's quick, but the footwork looks ugly to me.

anyone have a take on that?

[tantadi]

Does the compensating outweigh the loss do you think?

[Ignatz]

Does the compensating outweigh the loss do you think?
As I recall, Sungmin is correct, she lost on hansoku not on ippon.

[tantadi]

I was referring to compensating for the opponents height with her kamae, and what she might lose from her kendo by doing so...

[rainmaker]

As far as I understand, this female Kendoka is also well known strong kendoka. She is small but she beat the hell out of other strong male Kendokas as well. I just thought tall guy, Tanaka sensei, was very fast with good seme. That was my impression. This video was final shiai so both were tired.

Later that day, they had a chance to compete again. Tanaka sensei won during first 3 min match.


I was referring to compensating for the opponents height with her kamae, and what she might lose from her kendo by doing so...

[Ignatz]

When we learn basics we are taught to have the tip of the shinai pointed at the opponents throat. That doesn't mean that there is a kendo "law" that says always, everytime it must be so or it is "bad" kendo.
For instance, suppose your opponent is in jodan. The "standard" kamae will get you smacked so you raise the tip and point it toward his left kote (you have that in kata, too)
Another instance might be if your opponent is doing nito. I have seen kind of a half-gedan sort of kamae with the tip off to the right a little, intended to take the shoto out of play.
You adjust. The basics are important and you should always practice basics but you have to be flexible too.

[Curtis]

So all of you think her kamae is good?? Nothing wrong with it?

I have personally practiced with her on many occasions. Her kendo is quite good. If you think you can judge her kendo from this little video clip you are mistaken.

Here is what you cannot tell from the video.

She has a very good nuki doh and gives most, if not all of her opponents a good fight. I have heard many guys groan when they found out they had her for their match. Gutsy, very gutsy. And, she has a shelf full of trophies to show for it from regional tournaments besides attending nationals as a team member. She is also a very a good dojo member and very helpful.

She is a yondan without question. And no, she was not one of my members unfortunately before relocating to Atlanta. All this and she has 2 kids too.

[ahmed61086]

I think the main point of this thread was to find out whether or not one is supposed to bring their back leg off the floor so far....what do you guys think?

[tantadi]

I'm not questioning anything besides what I can see in the video. Her left heel is very high and she appears to have a lot of weight on the right at times. Wich IMHO can lead to "lean in" attacks or being planted, more energy goes up (hopping) than forward. (Same issues with the bent knee I guess).


Ignatz: I'm not talking about her hands, but the feet.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Tantadi, it's hard to tell from the video and I wouldn't presume to criticize based on shiai. At times her heel is higher than ideal, but then she is always moving so it's not fair to compare that to someone just standing in kamae. She looks nice and straight and sounds like she has a lot of spirit.

The other guy's left leg kicks up sometimes, and I wouldn't say that's ideal technique but again, one grainy video of shiai, I'm not going to be too critical. Looked like they had a nice game and the shimpan were being strict calling the points.

In person I suspect you would get a very different perspective.

[DCPan]

I think both their kamae and footwork suck for yondan.

WOW, big words.

FYI, when Moocow was up here, he thought she was the strongest female kenshi in the US.

[Curtis]

I think the main point of this thread was to find out whether or not one is supposed to bring their back leg off the floor so far....what do you guys think?

Is it ideal based on what we are taught? No. It is just part of the process. A person goes through many stages as they learn kendo and habits good and bad come and go. I have seen people at all levels do this.

[Paburo]

i don't see what's wrong with their footwork or kendo (for yondan). what's the point in being so picky pricky about feet? this is not even a dan test keiko.... as neil points out, it was a fair match. they both show spirit, manners and good attacks though the shimpan were strict in the their judging (i think tanaka scores a couple good men but unfortunately gets only one flag each time).

tantadi... i'd like to fight against your perfect yudansha straight kendo :D afterwards beers on my account :bandit:

[Nochi-no-tsuki]

I think both their kamae and footwork suck for yondan.

that video was not very good quality and the ref was in the way a lot so i think this is a bad basis for judgement on many points.
after i saw Barr in a match at a tournament for the first time, all i thought about was "wow, how do i get there." tantadi, you should see her in person, she can't weigh more than 100 lbs and she still kicks major a**.

[Paikea]

In person I suspect you would get a very different perspective.Hehehe...yeah. "Bang, you're dead".

[tantadi]

Ha, I'm not dead yet...

Nochi: I'm commenting upon the things I can see in the video. I can see the kamae and the posture changes in the attacks quite well.

Paburo: I'm picky about the feet because footwork to me maybe is the most important technical aspect of any martial art. On that reasoning I expect higher dan grades to have a very good basis that they will use for their advantage in shiai.

Neil: People do tape their shiai and it will be commented upon. The fact that she is always moving does not negate that the weight can not possible be over the left since the heel is so high. She also leans in a bit too much when she does a forward going attack. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

[DCPan]

People do tape their shiai and it will be commented upon.

It's one thing when people tape their own shiai and plaster it all over the internet. When they do that, they are begging for it. Whether that gives you the right to slam them is another matter entirely.

That said, it's quite another matter when a spectator tapes them and post them on the internet without necessarily having obtained their permission. From the site, it looks like Sam Suh is the gentleman that made this available?

The individuals in question may not even be aware of their footage on the internet.

And frankly, heaven forbid that someday I find a footage of me online being ripped apart without me knowing or having given consent to such scrutiny.

It's one thing to make discuss constructively about the video so people can take something useful away from it.

It's quite another to slam people like that.

How would you feel if someone posted a footage of you on youtube, and you found similar comments?

Frankly, if you are not willing to say the same thing in person at a taikai while your own sensei is in ear shot, don't say it at all.

[tantadi]

Don't assume that I would not stand by the comments on the video in 'real life'. And don't assume that my sensei wouldn't agree.

And how do you know they feel "slammed"? I'm pretty sure that they as experienced kendoka are confident enough to choose what they take to heart or not.

If anything, this thread has made me realize that I practise in a very orthodox dojo.

[DCPan]

Don't assume that I would not stand by the comments on the video in 'real life'.

Actually, your response is fairly consistent with what I expected of you and in line with your previous comments.


And don't assume that my sensei wouldn't agree.


Actually, I was referring to how your sensei to feel about how you represented yourself.

It's not like the rest of us hasn't made any kind of comments at a taikai about other people's technique.

The issue here is, when you say that around people that knows you, people know where you are coming from and can place the comment in context.

When you say things like that in front of people that don't know you on a public forum, the perception is different.

An analogy would be how African-Americans can call each other "n*gg*r" without a problem, but others can't.

You can say the same thing exactly the same way, but it will mean different things depending on when and where and how discreetly you say it.


If anything, this thread has made me realize that I practise in a very orthodox dojo.

And I can see you totally missed the point on several levels.

Lastly, orthodoxy does not equal doing kendo by measuring with a protractor.

Peace.

[shred_lord]

To Tantadi
Hmm, Tantadi, You started kendo a about a year before me. So you must be what? Shodan (same as me).... maybe Nidan. Hmm...

To Everyone else
From what I'm capable of understanding at this level it looked quite good to me. I certainly don't want to comment past that.

[Paburo]

Paburo: I'm picky about the feet because footwork to me maybe is the most important technical aspect of any martial art. On that reasoning I expect higher dan grades to have a very good basis that they will use for their advantage in shiai.
do you really have that much shiai experience? you should know that if there's good yuuko datotsu, kikentai, kiai and zanshin, shimpan could care less about a straight feet here, a bent knee there, a heel too high. ippon are not based on your perfect kamae. it's not kata shiai... kamae and footwork might be (and often are) different from kenshi to kenshi. thou not perfect, ppl might go with whats more comfortable and practical (within some reasonable limits that is).

besides, who are you to judge if that footwork displayed in the clip isn't the most suitable, effective and technical method for Tanaka-sensei? i guess only he knows that, or pushing it, his sensei who has been training him for years could also know. but you... you can't tell from a tiny video. unless you have uncanny superpowers and godsight premonition :bandit:


If anything, this thread has made me realize that I practise in a very orthodox dojo.
i would love to see that someday.... will you tell us the address of your dojo? :D

[Ignatz]

Ignatz: I'm not talking about her hands, but the feet.
OK, same response then.

[Twobitmage]

I think the main point of this thread was to find out whether or not one is supposed to bring their back leg off the floor so far....what do you guys think?

not that it matters anymore but...yeah thats why I posted it.

I didn't think they were lacking in anything. I just thought that left leg kick up was rather unattractive.

[tantadi]

Actually, your response is fairly consistent with what I expected of you and in line with your previous comments.



Actually, I was referring to how your sensei to feel about how you represented yourself.

It's not like the rest of us hasn't made any kind of comments at a taikai about other people's technique.

The issue here is, when you say that around people that knows you, people know where you are coming from and can place the comment in context.

When you say things like that in front of people that don't know you on a public forum, the perception is different.

An analogy would be how African-Americans can call each other "n*gg*r" without a problem, but others can't.

You can say the same thing exactly the same way, but it will mean different things depending on when and where and how discreetly you say it.



And I can see you totally missed the point on several levels.

Lastly, orthodoxy does not equal doing kendo by measuring with a protractor.

Peace.
I'm well aware that the message changes with the media and receptors. Most here seem to have a personal connection with the players and some of the responses are colored by that. And my comments were about something that I thought there were a general consensus about. If it is percieved as a 'n***er' - comment, I honestly don't see how discussion is
possible.

Regarding my sensei I do not represent him here.

[shred_lord]

And don't assume that my sensei wouldn't agree.
Regarding my sensei I do not represent him here. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:confused:

Wow I can see this thread going the way of the Standard Training Time For Ikkyu Thread (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8703&highlight=shodan)

[tantadi]

Is that difficult to understand? The fact that I don't represent my sensei online, doesn't mean that we don't share opinions on subjects.

[Ignatz]

"I watched the video and noticed that the player's kamae is not what I have learned."
versus
"I watched the video and the player's kamae is crap"

I think this is where we have our problem, a failure to communicate. If you really feel that they are crap you run into a problem because they are both well known and well respected players.
On the other hand, if you ask for discussion you will find that many will agree with you. In this case, many do (not the crap part)
Kendo is supposed to also help us in our daily lives and avoiding rigidity is one of the benefits of kendo training.

[beinsteiner]

crap is getting hit upside the head without learning something from the experience :D

[DCPan]

I think both their kamae and footwork suck for yondan.



If anything, this thread has made me realize that I practise in a very orthodox dojo.


I'm well aware that the message changes with the media and receptors.


Most here seem to have a personal connection with the players and some of the responses are colored by that. And my comments were about something that I thought there were a general consensus about. If it is percieved as a 'n***er' - comment, I honestly don't see how discussion is possible.

It's about reiho and the ability to share your observation with common courtesy. I don't see anything wrong with discussing other people if it is done in a respectful and productive manner.

Orthodox kendo huh? Nothing is more basic than Kendo begins and ends with rei.

Feel free to make your own conclusions, but I've wasted enough time on this thread.

[Ignatz]

. . .but I've wasted enough time on this thread.
Isn't that half the fun?;)

[KhawMengLee]

When I first watched this vid i thought it was a nidan below competition. Though the tall guy did have quite an awsome kote-men. I hate to say it but they did not look like Yondans.

[Omnis]

Sorry for being so late, but does USF has a kendo club, or was that just the hosting facility?

[kensenbatusaii]

When I first watched this vid i thought it was a nidan below competition. Though the tall guy did have quite an awsome kote-men. I hate to say it but they did not look like Yondans.


thats what you

get

when you get your

grading

in japan


easy get

easy go

[Curtis]

thats what you

get

when you get your

grading

in japan


easy get

easy go

You could not be more wrong. If you actually knew what you were talking about it would something.

I am sure we will be seeing a video of you in a final match in something or for that matter anything soon.

As far as the match goes, I spoke with one of the shimpan. He has read this thread and says most of you are way off base on your interpretation of what you saw. You had to be there to understand the match.

[Ignatz]

My recollection is that it was a very exciting, vibrant match.

[kensenbatusaii]

You could not be more wrong. If you actually knew what you were talking about it would something.

I am sure we will be seeing a video of you in a final match in something or for that matter anything soon.

As far as the match goes, I spoke with one of the shimpan. He has read this thread and says most of you are way off base on your interpretation of what you saw. You had to be there to understand the match.


you missed the point


totally!!!

[Ignatz]

Typical troll response. You missed the point, or can't you understand humor or some other such bullshit.
Go away.

[kensenbatusaii]

Typical troll response. You missed the point, or can't you understand humor or some other such bullshit.
Go away.


it is amusing to note

your progression in absolute clarity


from a total arse kisser

calling your crush a God of Kendo

then to treating everyone else

the way you treat those poor
clients of yours

all of them that you had defended

and got very

very bad conviction

lawyer?

overacting kendoka?

dirty old man?

yeah

definitely!

[Ignatz]

Definitely someone who has already been banned.

[Curtis]

you missed the point


totally!!!

No, you did. And we are waiting for that awe inspiring video of you. It would be nice see something of you to back up your opinions.

[T.Lee]

http://www.abestweb.com/smilies/popcorn.gif

[Ignatz]

Nice. You make that?

[SuperkenshiLv2]

It's about reiho and the ability to share your observation with common courtesy. I don't see anything wrong with discussing other people if it is done in a respectful and productive manner.

Orthodox kendo huh? Nothing is more basic than Kendo begins and ends with rei.

Feel free to make your own conclusions, but I've wasted enough time on this thread.

Quote for the win. Some of you guys have obviously shown that you still have a lot to learn about the understaing of Kendo and need to re-learn your basic MANNERS.

[SuperkenshiLv2]

It's about reiho and the ability to share your observation with common courtesy. I don't see anything wrong with discussing other people if it is done in a respectful and productive manner.

Orthodox kendo huh? Nothing is more basic than Kendo begins and ends with rei.

Feel free to make your own conclusions, but I've wasted enough time on this thread.

Quote for the win. Some of you guys have obviously shown that you still have a lot to learn about the understaing of Kendo and need to re-learn your basic MANNERS.

[SuperkenshiLv2]

thats what you

get

when you get your

grading

in japan


easy get

easy go
fyi Barr sensei got her 4 dan here.

P.S. sorry for the double post.

[slidercrank]

I feel very sad I cannot partake in this thread, because in the People's Republic of China, Google Video is disabled. But Youtube is not. Go figure.

[beinsteiner]

I would think YouTube is much more "dangerous" than Google Video.

Probably part of the Google filtering agreement.