Replacing Kote

[male73]

I hope I'm not just repeating a thread but can anyone give me advise as to when one should replace one's kote? The parameters are: financial considerations high, aesthetics low, effectivity middle. Thanks.

[don don]

OK. Why don't you tell us/describe exactly what state your current Kote are in? What problems are you having with them? You'll get better advice that way.

[MikeW]

Well this is a matter of opinion of course. I have 2 pair of kote so that I can rotate their usage especially in the summer when they get so wet and sweaty. But more to your point you should replace (or repair) kote when they start getting holes in the palms. Typically, unless they are ancient they padding will hold up through several palm replacements. Now if you have already replaced the palms several times and they are starting to wear holes through the futon material they are ready to be replaced and not just repaired. In my opinion it is a mistake to replace them the first time you get holes in the palms. You can repair small palm holes yourself, for larger rips or palms that are completely messed up you can replace the whole palm (usually its easier to have that professionally done).

[male73]

OK. Why don't you tell us/describe exactly what state your current Kote are in? What problems are you having with them? You'll get better advice that way.

Sorry, forgot that.
I got the cheapest kote (the entire bogu set actually) at 6 mm. The kote's dorsal side (the one with padding and faux leather) is already worn but still intact -- a bit of chipping here and there because it's not real leather. the under side (the part which rubs against the shinai) has several holes, specifically at the thumb and middle finger areas. Lastly, they stink -- but I think everybody knows that.

[male73]

Thanks MikeW-san, that was a lot of help. I was kinda worried that I might be forced to get new ones due to palm holes. Apparently I can still stretch the pair's lifespan by repairing them holes. At least I can save up for when necessary purchases are needed. Again, thank you so much for the replies.

[akumalkenshi]

just got an entry level pair from e bogu Mexico.

very comfy, light and soft.

the price was slightly less than $100.00usd

[mark]

Here is a link to a e-retailer that repairs kote. I know e-bogu and most other e-retailers also repair kote.
http://www.budo-aoi.com/kendo/bogu/repair.html

You might consider repairing them even if you will replace them with a better set later. They could serve as a dry set when your better kote need to rest. Hope this helps.

[Paikea]

I really like the FD-3 set I got from Aoi.

[male73]

Here is a link to a e-retailer that repairs kote. I know e-bogu and most other e-retailers also repair kote.
http://www.budo-aoi.com/kendo/bogu/repair.html

You might consider repairing them even if you will replace them with a better set later. They could serve as a dry set when your better kote need to rest. Hope this helps.

Hai, your replies are a big help especially for newbies like me. e-retailers might prove tricky for me, but I'll just try and find a local repair shop that can handle kotes. Sorry for asking too many questions but do you have any suggestions as to appropriate materials to use in patching up the holes? Again, domo arigatou!:happy:

[don don]

Sorry, forgot that.
I got the cheapest kote (the entire bogu set actually) at 6 mm. The kote's dorsal side (the one with padding and faux leather) is already worn but still intact -- a bit of chipping here and there because it's not real leather. the under side (the part which rubs against the shinai) has several holes, specifically at the thumb and middle finger areas. Lastly, they stink -- but I think everybody knows that.

Kote are the one part of bougu that I think it's worth spending money on. A good pair will make your training so much better. It seems you have a fairly cheap pair, and while they may be useable, you're possibly at the stage in your Kendo where you'd really appreciate a better pair. To begin with new Kote are very stiff, and make it very hard to flex your wrists. But once they're supple, you should find you have a much better grip on the shinai. Don't get a pair that's TOO big. a slightly snug fit will stretch to your hand size. (So don't lend them to someone else...) Try to visit a supplier, I won't buy "unseen" over the net again.
Also, stinky isn't good. But so long as you're not getting a rash on your hands after training...
Hope this helps.

[Ignatz]

Sorry, forgot that.
I got the cheapest kote (the entire bogu set actually) at 6 mm. The kote's dorsal side (the one with padding and faux leather) is already worn but still intact -- a bit of chipping here and there because it's not real leather. the under side (the part which rubs against the shinai) has several holes, specifically at the thumb and middle finger areas. Lastly, they stink -- but I think everybody knows that.
Cheap kote don't last. That's why they are cheap.
Also, sounds like you have a death grip on the shinai based upon your description of the holes. Work on a light, loose grip just until the moment of impact.

[male73]

don don san, your reply definitely helps. I'll keep these things in mind. I might have a problem with going to suppliers as there is none here in the boondocks of the Philippine Islands.:wink: We usually get it from abroad so we have to rely on the internet.

Ignatz san, you are absolutely right. My senseis and sempais would always point out that I'm too tense and that I have a "death grip," especially with my right hand. I know, I know, basic: use your left hand. :down: So guess where the holes are located -- right hand palm area. Tsk tsk.

Seems like I should start saving up for a new pair. Meanwhile I'll follow the earlier suggestions re repairing them holes.

To everyone, domo arigatou goziemashita (er, I'm not sure that's right but I hope the gratitude is not lost in translation).:grin:

[Old Warrior]

Cheap kote don't last. That's why they are cheap.

I definitely disagree with this quote. I bought 2 pair in the $220 US range and they wore out in less than a year. Then I bought an el cheapo pair at $88 and it is holding up much better. I'm sure it looks lousey, but its protection level is the same and it is wearing better. Doing nito, there is definitely a lot more movement in the hands/shinai and they take a beating from blocking.

[mark]

I definitely disagree with this quote. I bought 2 pair in the $220 US range and they wore out in less than a year. Then I bought an el cheapo pair at $88 and it is holding up much better. I'm sure it looks lousey, but its protection level is the same and it is wearing better. Doing nito, there is definitely a lot more movement in the hands/shinai and they take a beating from blocking.


You bring up a good point.

My sensei has two sets of bogu, his normal bogu, and his competition bogu. The competion bogu cost several times the price of his normal bogu. It has little protection, and will likely wear out long before his regular bogu. he would not change it for the world. It is his pride and joy, so light, comfortable and flexible - perfect for shiai. The difference between a workhorse and a racehorse.

In a lot of things the difference between bottom basement and average is both durability and capability.
In kote the really cheap would not last, are stiff, and don't protect.
At the really high end, they use materials that are lighter and feel better sometimes sacrificing durability and protection.

I wonder if your $220 pair falls in the more comfortable less enduring high end bracket and your $80 pair fall into the workhorse - well made and ready for years of daily practice?

At what price do kote shift from bottom basement to average, and from average to high end?

[male73]

Uh oh, now I'm in trouble. I should start skipping meals now if I'm going to be able to afford 2 kotes.:cry:

Seriously now, that seems like a good idea (two kotes, one for shiais/special occasions and one for regular waza etc.). I guess the trick would be to choose wisely and not end up with something not useful for either.

[Ignatz]

I definitely disagree with this quote. I bought 2 pair in the $220 US range and they wore out in less than a year. Then I bought an el cheapo pair at $88 and it is holding up much better. I'm sure it looks lousey, but its protection level is the same and it is wearing better. Doing nito, there is definitely a lot more movement in the hands/shinai and they take a beating from blocking.
Did you get the $220's when you were a beginner? I think people wear them out faster before they learn the soft touch.
I have a pair that I used for 16 years, no problem except the smell then I lent them to a young guy who wore holes in both thumbs in three months.

[Old Warrior]

Did you get the $220's when you were a beginner? I think people wear them out faster before they learn the soft touch.
I have a pair that I used for 16 years, no problem except the smell then I lent them to a young guy who wore holes in both thumbs in three months.

I guess, after 5 years one would say I'm still a "beginner". Nevertheless, my first pair (el cheapos) wore out in a year. Then I bought the $220 ones and they lasted about 18 months (they were light and pretty). Now, I went back to the el cheapos. The poorer quality palms are thicker and seem to be wearing better. My wrists don't take a beating, its the palms and seams that have been disintegrating on my old pairs.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I wonder if that isn't a function of you playing nito? You have to control a shinai single-handed. That's going to nearly double the forces acting on the palm.

OTOH I have seen some fairly pricy kote where I looked at the palm leather and found it pretty thin.

[Old Warrior]

I wonder if that isn't a function of you playing nito? You have to control a shinai single-handed. That's going to nearly double the forces acting on the palm.

OTOH I have seen some fairly pricy kote where I looked at the palm leather and found it pretty thin.

I personally believe that you are right on both counts. The costlier ones felt great, looked great, and died prematurely.

[jediado]

E-mudo also does bogu repairing.
http://www.e-mudo.com/Shop/default.asp?CateCode=93