Kansai?

[Commander]

Hi does anyone know how to tie their men kansai style or is the normal way better?

Cheers

[The great I AM]

Hi does anyone know how to tie their men kansai style or is the normal way better?

CheersI tie my men kansai style, and it is usually down to personal preference, though for me personally I like the fit better. Feels a little more snug than Kanto style for me, but thats personal.

You need 8 shaku (if I remember correctly....) men himo, and a particular chigawa for your men, which is attached to the main middle bar running down the middle of your men, at the very top. The himo then go back as normal, then down and around your tsuki dare, and then back up again, to be threaded into the mengane the same as kanto style, and then the rest is the same ie tie it to your face.

[Commander]

Cool, do you know where i can find instructions with pics?

I know im an idiot lol

[Kapplow]

Be careful. You have to be a badass like the Gib before you start switching things up. I'd ask ol'sensei first. I tried both ways and kansai was WAY more secure but I could never get my eyes to line up with the slit in the men gane. So I continue to use the regular method. But in my naginata class kansai IS the regular way.

Long live the empire.

[Halcyon]

Cool, do you know where i can find instructions with pics?
http://www6.big.or.jp/~budogu/manu/topm.htm
Download it and check out page 40. It has pix of both Kansai and Kanto style methods of tying your men himo.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Also be aware that it takes a lot longer, so if everybody else in class is tying kanto style, you'll be the proverbial nail sticking up. For me the extra security isn't worth the extra hassle.

[Kapplow]

One thing I noticed that I thought was interesting was in the Nat geo 120 sec challenge. Ishida-sensei used kanto style in the tokyo police footage, but when he went to test for hachidan he was wearing men kansai style. Strange huh?

[Commander]

Long live the empire.

Funny that isn't the imperial insignia but rather a look alike mon that i got for my do, how cool eh ;)

[Lloromannic]

He probably thought that if there was a bad time for hism men to come loose, it would be then.

[Kapplow]

Funny that isn't the imperial insignia but rather a look alike mon that i got for my do, how cool eh ;)

Actually I know that symbol because its the same symbol that gulfcoast kendo uses.

I just know you are a star wars fan from you old avatar. :)

[Commander]

Actually I know that symbol because its the same symbol that gulfcoast kendo uses.

I just know you are a star wars fan from you old avatar. :)

Ah cool, no worries :D

[Usagi San]

... Ishida-sensei used kanto style in the tokyo police footage, but when he went to test for hachidan he was wearing men kansai style.

Isn't he in Osaka?

Anyway I guess he followed Neil's advice. In everyday practice, kanto style it's quicker; then when in test kansai style it's safer.

[Omnis]

So, you need longer himo for Kansai or what?

[Lloromannic]

Yes, and a special chichigawa too.

[The great I AM]

So, you need longer himo for Kansai or what?See my reply to the first post. 8 shaku himo and a single largeer and longer chigawa.

And Ishida Sensei is most definately part of the Osaka Police.

[Omnis]

See my reply to the first post. 8 shaku himo and a single largeer and longer chigawa.

And Ishida Sensei is most definately part of the Osaka Police.

Right. It's just that I don't know the standard length (let alone in shaku) of "Kanto-sized" himo. This might be a dumb question, but if you have long himo for kansai and tie your men in kanto anyway, will the himo hang so low as to be unacceptable or something? Like... are there length requirements for the dangling string?

[The great I AM]

Right. It's just that I don't know the standard length (let alone in shaku) of "Kanto-sized" himo. This might be a dumb question, but if you have long himo for kansai and tie your men in kanto anyway, will the himo hang so low as to be unacceptable or something? Like... are there length requirements for the dangling string?They will indeed "hang low" as you put it >snigger<. I believe the length for kanto himo is 7 shaku. I think.

[Karaken]

They will indeed "hang low" as you put it >snigger<. I believe the length for kanto himo is 7 shaku. I think.

I believe most of them comes with Kansai length so that people can cut them down to Kanto length if necessary.
Anyway, here's an alternative to both method I use. I started use this because Kanto method didn't hold my men secure enough when it was brand new but I liked it and stayed with it.

Start with Kanto style ( most bogu come with this style anyway ) and instead of tying the himo, bring them down to Tsuki and warp around. Then go back up and tie it. It doesn't take long ( No threading and just one more go around ) and it's the most secure method I know of.

I kind of invented this out of necessity but I believe it's been used before.
When I asked here about the legitimacy of it a few years ago, someone said there is nothing in the rule against it and he said he saw his sensei using the method once in a while..

Please let me know if you know anyone else using the method. I'm just curious.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I believe most of them comes with Kansai length so that people can cut them down to Kanto length if necessary. No, if you buy a new men they always come Kanto length (7 shaku) unless you request otherwise. The length requirement is that the strings and loops hanging from the knot be no longer than 40 cm. After tieing up your men, you should have someone measure and cut off any excess.

[bullet08]

i wear mine in kansai style, mainly because, my men is ever so slightly big on me. also, my sensei wears it kansai style. along with our new yondan.

the himo is anchored on the top of the men gane. then you cross it in the back, bring them to the front and cross them on the bottom of the men gane, then bring them back and cross/knot in the back. bring them to the front and thread it under the middle bar on the top. bring them back and tie them in the back.

it does take longer to tie in kansai style, but in promotion test and so on, you will have enough time to tie it on without being in hurry. normally in our dojo, our sensei can tie up his men quicker than most people tying up in kanto style. and i can get up with my men on before most of others wearing kanto style.

there are few tricks that you can use to speed up the process of tying up in kansai style.

first, it's rather important to keep track of which himo is which. second, when threading the himo under the center bar, make sure the second himo goes over the first on and under the bar so you can 'hook' it with finger quicker.

after that, it's all practice.

pete

[Genya]

Yes, and a special chichigawa too.
About that special chigawa... What is the length of it and are there other specialities in it? Is it possible to tie men with kansai using normal chigawa?

[Lloromannic]

I don't know the length, I've seen them come in many types of leather and colours, but I don't think it makes a difference. Eurobogu sells them I think (Leather Parts --> Men chichigawa Gloss leather handstitched (1pc))

[tango]

for what it's worth.. the one i use is about 10 inches long.
(i think they're all standard sizes)

[rottunpunk]

Right. It's just that I don't know the standard length (let alone in shaku) ...
a shaku is 11.9 inches :D
:p

[Neil Gendzwill]

Is it possible to tie men with kansai using normal chigawa?I suppose you could but normally you would use a special one. You can make it yourself easily. See numbers 14, 15 or 16 in the picture below:
http://www.zen-sankei.co.jp/products/5_kawa/img/standard_menchigawa.jpg

[Rookie M]

What's wrong with motorcycle helmet fastenings?
Riot police use it cos it fits behind gasmasks and you can ride your bike in it after beating some hippies.

[Awooga Guy]

...and you can ride your bike in it after beating some hippies.

Good old Rookie :D Peace and love all the way.






That is all.

[johnkichu]

Hi does anyone know how to tie their men kansai style or is the normal way better?

Cheers

Here's another "how to" page, with photos.

http://www.halifaxkendo.org/men.html

Halifax Kendo Club has a lot of other useful info & "how to" pages illustrated with photos.

[johnkichu]

After tieing up your men, you should have someone measure and cut off any excess.

I understand that at some matches, judges will do just that to anyone whose himo is hanging longer than 40 cm. Maintaining proper appearance is considered a part of being a proper kendoka/kumdoin.