A conflict of training principles with kendo teachers...

[KENSHIN]

Hi people,

Anyway, my question is what do you do when there are two teachers with conflicting ideas on practice? for example, my sensei tells us that those beginning when practicing your kendo it is better to do it slowly as understanding the technique is more important than swinging the shinai as fast as you can. Anyway, the conflict of interest came when there was a junior instructor who would get really annoyed when i would do my kendo with concentration on my technique, and would say that I should do it as fast as possible. so what does one do in a situation when there are ideas that conflict. I mean I don't wish to turn around and tell this guy that this is what I have been told by the sensei, as I will probably end up embarrassing him and making him even angrier with me. hmmmm... any thoughts?

[nodachi]

For awhile, I had 3 sensei telling me to do different things, at the same practice. They all had something different for me to focus on, and they were valid things to pay attention to, but I couldn't really work on them all at the same time. So when I was in one sensei's line, I would do what he wanted, and when I was in a different sensei's line, I would do what he wanted.

Gradually over time, the individual things got worked out, slowly sunk in, and I didn't have to concentrate on doing the different things for different sensei.

There may be a benefit to working on it slow with the one sensei, and then trying to do it fast with the other.

Just a suggestion, but if it continues to be a problem and make training stressful, there may be a point when you just have to say I am doing what the head sensei told me, so can we talk after practice to sort out what I should be doing because I am getting confused.

Just some random thoughts, take em or leave em.

[Kiki]

Kenshin,

nodachi sans suggestion sounds like good advice. Don’t be afraid to ask questions

I still have the same problem sometimes. People have different coaching styles. Maybe your senseis are seeming to conflict but actually teaching two different things based on their individual perspectives on you. To me speed builds endurance and slower controlled movements teach the neuromuscular system the correct movements. Eventually you have to put them together.

Don't give up

[iwatekenshi]

You have to take things as they come. There is no ultimate way in kendo. Each teacher comes in with a different perspective like a piece in a puzzle. You just have to find the right place for it in your own kendo. This takes time and patience but things will fit in.

If a teacher gets angry don't say but...this teacher said...so on and so forth....Just take it as it comes and ride the middle road, eventually you'll find your own exit ;).

[Ares2907]

It's also good to try and understand why these instructors are telling you to do something a particular way. If you don't understand, ask. What are the benefits of doing it this way as opposed to that way? If an instructor gets annoyed/upset/whatever over this, then that's really their problem and part of their learning curve as far as teaching goes. It's nothing you've done, don't feel the need to take it personally.
Having said that, there are probably merits in both perspectives. Understanding the meaning behind the method will allow you to better understand said technique overall. Of course there is always the possibility that one of them is full of shit.
Keep an open mind and make your own choice.

[KENSHIN]

hmmm... the main reason why I bring this up is that this junior teacher is also a student to the sensei, and also our sensei is very specific about what they want from certain students in the class. So technically is this other person disobey the orders of the senior? And then it may have some kind of effect on my progress as my sensei obviously wants to teach us in a certain way. hmmm...anyway....Its not a real problem for me, it was just a little annoying when that teacher kind of looked down on me, because I was trying to follow what my sensei was telling me to do.

[kendomushi]

Each and every sensei has their own beliefs on what is important and what they think you are capable of. When one tells you to do things a certain way, work on that style, for lack of a better word, when with that sensei. It can be confusing, but you will get some very well rounded training and slowly gain all you need to have your own equally valid ideas on what is most important and how people should practice some day.

[Confound]

Do what each sensei asks in front of that sensei. Then, the rest of the time, practice whichever way you honestly think is better for your kendo. Normally, I wouldn't say that, but both your senseis are saying things that make sense, and are reasonable expectations. One sensei seems to think that speed is the most important, while the other prefers good, solid waza. Which way you decide to do your kihongeiko will determine how your kendo develops, which, in the end, is a personal choice.

c

[John W]

Kenshin,

Whenever I have conflicts with what one teacher says over another I just simply take what I want to learn from one teacher
ie. one teacher might have a lightning fast kote cut so I try to emulate that and perhaps another teacher has good nuki waza technique so I take that on board. Eventually through time and training your techniques will more or less resemble a mixture of all your teachers techniques. Of course they will have your own strength's and weaknesses in them and you will also have your own moves too.
It's a form of copying I suppose but it boils down to learning of the technique, applying it to suit you then devising your own techniques through experience:)

[blur]

I'm just thinking out loud here... I guess it's true to say that some dojo's are stricter than others. Or, at the very least, have different protocols to one another.

In light of that, is there no way to point out to this "junior instructor" that Sensei said what you were doing is OK? Even if he is the type to pull rank and tell you what he thinks is best; surely the same applies to him and he should be deferring to Sensei's wishes?

I appreciate that it might be harder in some dojo's than others to question authority (even when that questioning is based on the very sound basis of the original instruction coming from Sensei, not a "junior instructor"), but if it was possible, I would certainly do it.

I'm not sure there's anyone here who would defer to a "junior instructor" over Sensei?

[Neil Gendzwill]

In our dojo, we tell our students straight out - "you may get conflicting advice - in that case, always do as the head instructor has asked. If you are still confused, ask him."

I think this should work. Just do it as you have been told by your head instructor. If there is a possibility of a misunderstanding, ask your head instructor.

Later in your kendo career you will receive advice from many different instructors, some conflicting, some only apparently conflicting. After a few years you should have the experience to sort it out somewhat and decide what is best for your own kendo. But for now the best plan is to pick one person and follow his advice exclusively.

[Marine_Boy]

Kenshi,

I sometimes have this problem too. It's great that your teachers want to help you but with so many different ideas and concepts flying around your head, it does get quite confusing.

I usually do what nodachi says, if one teacher says to do it this way, then do it. When another says to do it another way, then do that too. The only way to find out if it works is if you try it. My current kendo sensei said to me that all our bodies are different and so therefore the technique will also be different, so just go and work it out by doing it loads.

But back on the subject, the other thing I do is to take the best parts of each of the teachers and use those ideas for myself by mixing and matching. It has worked until now, not just in kendo!

Stan

[KENSHIN]

Originally posted by Marine_Boy
Kenshi,

... the other thing I do is to take the best parts of each of the teachers and use those ideas for myself by mixing and matching. It has worked until now, not just in kendo!

Stan


I guess you are right to say that, but my only problem is I feel, if I take on both ideas at once then when I am practicing with whichever teacher I then need to show to that teacher I have been practicing their ideas. Hmmm…I think the point I am trying to make is that for a student like me there should be stages from which the student must climb before a student is able to make that decision of how to combine techniques. I think that this is what the senior sensei wishes from his student, and I am worried that if I am not practising according to the senior sensei’s order of how they feel is the best way to progress because another teacher thinks differently and then I must try to live up to the expectation of the other is very confusing because I do not want to disobey orders that are coming from the senior sensei, ultimately I want to be a good student. I just think that although different ideas are good, maybe it is not a good thing for junior students to take on a profusion of ideas at once because it can be very confusing and should be something that is thought about when you are experienced enough to think about it. I mean I can use an example like, driving a car, everybody has there own way of driving a car because they feel comfortable with doing it that way. However, when you go for your test the instructor wants you to follow one way, and why? Because it is less confusing that way, eventually when you have reached a level where you are a competent driver you naturally fall into your own style of driving. I am not too sure if that makes sense.

Hmmm…even writing this is confusing me, arghh I think I am gonna go lie down now.

P.S. I forgot to say…hello Confy it’s been a long time, nice to see you are still around.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Kenshin - exactly right. So listen to your senior sensei and do what he asks. If some other instructor in your club asks you to do otherwise, just say "X-sensei has asked me to do it this way".