gaijin

[angryshinai]

I was reading another thread and came across this comment by Confound.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is exactly the kind of slack-arse gaijiin attitude that makes it difficult for some teachers to take gaijin students seriously, Reicheru. If you're going to do kendo, do kendo, don't be all namby-panby about it. Don't bother to do the grading if you're not serious about it. What's the point?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Australia the majority of us tend not to use words that brand a person as an outsider. Australia to me is one of the most multi cultural countries in the world. We have laws to prevent discrimination of nationality in the workplace and racism is frowned apon in the general community. Its not the first time ive come across this type of comment before otherwise I wouldn’t have posted. Is that the general opinion that the Japanese have towards westerners (or gaijiin)???. I would be interested to hear other people’s views.

Confound I’m not having a go at you personally, I’m just trying to get a better understanding of what the attitude is really like towards westerners in japan. I was thinking of going to live in japan for a year after I have finished collage, and would like to get a better understanding of what its really like....

[aru-ma]

Originally posted by angryshinai
Its not the first time ive come across this type of comment before otherwise I wouldn’t have posted. Is that the general opinion that the Japanese have towards westerners (or gaijiin)???. I would be interested to hear other people’s views.


From what I understand (though not as much as poeple who live in Japan for an extended period of time) Japanese has a sort of both fascination and disgust (I know its sound too harsh but I couldnt come up with a better word), especially with 'westerners', I find that they are generaly fascinated if you study an aspect of their culture (language, art, etc). This sort of attitude is not exclusive to Japan, in indonesia, there are people who find 'westerners' fascinating because to them YOU are exotic. Ironic isnt it, in western, or in the case of Australia, Southern countries exotic is the term when you describe something that is African or Asian, while there they use the term to describe you.

[JSchmidt]

Angryshinai, you are asking the wrong person. Confound got absolutly no respect, nor tolerance for anyone who doesnt fit into her narrow view of the world.
For a more wide view, this thread is a good example of both extremes.
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=733

Jakob

[Confound]

Mr. Schmidt,

May I refer you to my website? If you're going to brand me with such broad, tarry strokes, do a bit more background reading first.

c

[aru-ma]

angryshinai, there's another way (easier) to find out, ask anyone from the club, you can ask Scott, Jordan, Arpad or even me.

See you in training

[Hongsermeier]

angryshinai...From someone who has been to Japan many times and to many different locations. I've never felt out of place there. I've always been treated with respect and politeness. I've had little kids some up to me in the park to try to talk or just see my blond hair. I've also had 70+ year old men stop me to try and practice english. If your away from any military staion, you will be treated very well. Close to the military bases they see to much of the young drunk sailor. If you make any attempt to try and speak their language or try and of their traditions( kendo, taiko, etc) they will be happy to try and help you learn.

PS.
The women really love blonds. Something different I guess.

[aru-ma]

Drunk sailors? why does that sound so generic?

with regards to blonds, like I said earlier, they find it exotic.

[angryshinai]

Thanks guys,

Ive been to japan before but only for a couple of weeks for some fun in the snow on my way back from Europe. And thank you Aru-ma ill certainly have a chat after trainging. My background in martial arts has mianly been in Chinese wing chung not in japanese budo. I would just like to point out the guys like Aru-ma and Arpad have been a huge insperation to me. Without guys like you at the club i would have probably gone back to my comfort zone studying Kung Fu.

[Hongsermeier]

aru-ma...since I'm an ex-sailor, it is generic. However it is a huge problem in the service. In the US we have a all volunteer force. That causes some problems with recuiting. You end up with many kids straight out of highschool that don't want to or can't get into college. The average age in the navy is around 24 last I heard. More hormones than brains. Add some alcohol and you have problems.

[nodachi]

If you live in Japan and your experience is anything like mine, you will see these things, in brief.

Really nice people wanting to meet you
People only wanting to talk to you to practice their English
People who will try to push you and train you very seriously in budo because they want foreigners to learn it and increase interest in their budo and help it grow
People who will not take you seriously at all, may even assume that you have quit after you miss even just one practice, when in reality you got sick for one day and couldn't make it to practice, and then you need to spend a lot of hard training to make them realize you are serious about learning it.
Polite nice people.
People who will walk right into you because you are a foreigner and should move out of their way.
Kids who are interested in meeting someone different.
Kids who take pictures of you on the train just because you are different and funny looking.
People who are polite and patient in you living the Japanese way of life and trying to communicate in Japanese in places like stores or restaurants or city halls.
People who are just blatantly rude at you not understanding, don't speak slower for you when you ask them to in Japanese because you can understand if they speak slowly but they refuse to and even get a little angry at you for not understanding.
Sometimes people will try and igore you when you talk to them because they are afraid of making mistakes trying to communicate with a foreigner, but some of them just outright don't want to talk to you.
Salarymen reading porno magazines in the train filled with women and children.


So, in summary, I loved Japan. I focused on the nice things. I loved where I lived, the hobbies, the budo, the scenary, my friends

However, I did find lots of crap, some of which made me angry or annoyed, but you deal with it.

My experience made 70% or the time very nice and enjoyable, and 30% was tainted by some difficulties in not knowing enough japanese or dealing with some people who still had racist comments or behaviors, even though in reality I just think they are not used to dealing with people who are different so they are saying or doing things that they don't realize are offensive to a foreigner because they just haven't grown up in a diverse population, of course some of the people may just have been prejudiced, but I would like to think that they are a minority.

Yes, it is not all happy happy times, I agree with Confound on that, but I still loved living there. I was happy with the genuine people that I met and was friends with. I think Japan just needs the older generation to pass on before it will get rid of these still very closed trains of thought.

[m_french]

wow sounds like New York.... except for the polite people part:beard:

[William Honda]

Gaijin… it happens in the states too. I was born and raised an American, but am of Japanese ancestry. I once went to a service station, and went inside to get something (can't remember what).

Well the man was in his late 60's or so and was really rude to me. To the point where my girlfriend at the time was going to tear into him. At about the same time I noticed all these pictures of warships high on the wall near the ceiling. I said to my girlfriend let's go.

Apparently I was "one of them". He probably had his friends die horrible deaths in front of his eyes and has not forgiven or forgot. His experiences clouds his ability to make rational judgments.

Nodachi chooses to focus on the nice things. People like the man above are everywhere. I hope he finds peace. I can't control his behavior so I avoid that station to this day.

They are everywhere, it is how WE choose to deal with it.

[Old Warrior]

Mr. Honda

Very well said!

[Inouye02]

damn honda , tell me where that station is ,

[JSchmidt]

"His experiences clouds his ability to make rational judgments."

Another factor is the extreme propaganda that took place between the US & Japan in WW2. Whereas the Germans were still being considered as being reasonably civilized, the Japanese were portraited as being incarnations of the devil. (Same happened in Japan).

Jakob

[kendomushi]

This month marks 15 years total living in Japan for me.
As Nodachi put it, you can focus on the good or the bad as you choose. In my time here (which is no where near ending) I have been through bad marriages, have been dragged through the court system, have been insulted by drunks on trains, and worse.
In spite of it all, this is my home. I can imagine living no other place. And on average, a gaijin who makes a little bit of a sincere effort to "fit in" with the local culture and society, which means more than just taking up various budo or other activities, is welcomed with a warm smile and a cold beverage.
That being said, there are assholes, racists, jerks, SOBs, etc everywhere in the world. I can give you a long list of even my own blood relatives that I'd say fit this category.

[iwatekenshi]

When foreigners come to Japan people tend to keep in mind of their social mores and values and make judgements through them. Then they get sick of it and end up going home disgusted. HEY YA CAN'T BLAME THEM!

Well it's their country, their native values and social mores that they think are normal. It's our job to fit in, if you can't just leave.

However, like some posters said, you can fit in eventually. If that occurs then you will have the right to make change that you think needs change. Your own personal ROME can't be made in a day though.

SHINBO, NINTAI and GAMAN are three important elements for living here. Once you have learned to personally manipulate them then you will have the wonderful opportunity to experience what it is like to live on this beautiful island.

[Hai_hai]

Japan. It is a different culture and that is what makes it unique.
Just look at the Japanese tea ceremony. It is so... who am I kidding. I love the Lancer Evo VIII, kendo and voluptuous Japanese Idol girls. Watashi wa gaijin desu!

[iwatekenshi]

Thank you hai_hai you just about explained my life in Japan. I've got all three now:beard:.

[m_french]

iwatekenshi, is that my picture in your post or are you my twin brother?:beard:

[iwatekenshi]

I'm your twin bro across the big blue. Come to Iwate and you've got a place to stay:calm:.

[m_french]

Throw in the Voluptuous Japanese Idol girls and you've got a deal:beard:

[Hongsermeier]

Voluptuous Japanese girls??? Where???? All the ones I see are perky size :cross_eye

[Hai_hai]

Originally posted by Hongsermeier
Voluptuous Japanese girls??? Where???? All the ones I see are perky size :cross_eye

That's true, a majority of Japanese women have a stick figure. But there's the rare girl bustin' out all over da place. I guess you have to be a disgusting ecchi, such as myself, to be noticing things like that.

[Inouye02]

i'm there with you brother ...

Los Angeles Sukebe..

soryy mrkurukuru, wheres my shirt ?

[M.K. Kawai]

I'll put my two-cents worth in here.

I spent almost three years in Japan going to school there and I just came back to the States last year. It's an experience that I'll always treasure for the rest of my life.

Granted there are going to things that you like and things that you don't like. What Confound complains about is the extreme end of things.

I've met many JET people in Japan. The majority of them enjoyed their experience there. However, they did feel that they were under utilized. But, that didn't stop them from taking the opportunity to really immerse themselves into the culture and really learn about the people there.

I had one friend who used to walk to school everyday and pass by an old man working in his field. One day she just struck up a conversation with him and found out that he used to be a pilot in the Japanese Air Force during WWII. In fact, he was scheduled to fly as a Kamikaze pilot when the US soldiers invaded Japan. Well, the Bomb was dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the war ended so he never got to fly his mission. The last day she was to teach her class, the old man gave her a whole bunch full of fresh vegetables and fruit from his field.

These opportunities exist if you're just willing to look for them. Yes, there will be problems and yes, you will come across things that you don't like. But, anyone who has lived in Japan for some time has had the same experience. The difference is if you recognize it for what it is. Different country, different culture equals a unique and personal learning opportunity. If you can't do that, then you'll end up like the JET people that I did meet who had a bad experience in Japan and like Confound. You'll just complain, complain, complain and be just plain miserable.

If you do go to Japan, look at it as a great learning opportunity about a different country. I think you'll find similarities and differences between the two. And, I think you'll have a greater appreciation of what you've left behind in your own country. If you are able to this, your stay in Japan will be an experience that you will treasure.

Don't let someone's negative view discourage you. You go out there and see for yourself. Just remember to keep things in its proper perspective.

MKK

P.S. If you do go to Japan... Don't use the word "Gaijin" in front of a person from China. They may get offended. Use the word "Gaikokujin". Has to do with the way the word was used during WWII.

[doubissu]

Nodachi & Honda got it right; there are nasty things (vomit in the train) in Japan but good things too (izakaya). Same as everywhere else... It's up to you to choose what you want/need. I lived & worked there Japanese-style for 5 years and loved most of it. I had to get out thought because the social tension and general lifestyle were seriously getting on my nerves.

Japan as a nation is a master in the art of xenophobia and racism; just like the US and France (two nations I'm particularly close to). Most of their populations aren't like that fortunately, but many ARE racist. Unlike in US or France, they certainly won't tell you that as a matter of fact, they're more subtle. Like tea ceremony it's all in the details...

We had the Japanese Jeitai visit us at the dojo last week, it was a blast but as condescending as ever...

Eddy