how do kendo and iaido inform each other?

[tyler]

No doubt this topic has been given a good once or twice over on this and other forums, but just wondering if anyone has some novel thoughts.

One of the things that most interests me about kendo is seme. I once heard Toronto JCCC's Ohmi Sensei remark that there are different kinds of seme; shinai seme, which is less developed, and body or hara-seme, which is difficult and takes a lifetime of practice to develop. Certainly I've felt the seme of others - it must be the reason why I can do keiko with others around my level for two hours when 5 minutes of keiko with my sensei leaves me heaving for breath, tense and feeling like I've been fighting a wall. As for seme of my own, hopefully it's in the mail but it'll be a long time before it gets here.

To my mind, developing seme through kendo makes sense. Because you're facing someone else in real time, you can see and feel the effects of your actions, and after years of practice building muscle-memory and gaining experience, I can see how seme would develop.

So how does iaido develop seme, and how is that seme applicable to kendo? I practice iai as well as kendo (started the two together so every grading is the dreaded 'double whammy') and I've had the priviledge of seeing a few truly amazing sensei, some of whom also practice both arts. The feeling that comes off of an experienced iaidoka is the same as facing an experienced kendoka - that they're on top of your timing, that you ought not to attack.

Anyhow, what are your thoughts on how kendo and iaido inform and compliment eachother, and how do arts which appear so different manage to grow the same kind of seme?

forgive the length of this post, looking forward to your responses.


Tyler

[Charlie]

Hello, Tyler! Looks like the post is being buried under invective over other subjects. Shame, that!

The immediate thing that springs to my mind is that iaido helps remind one that the shinai in one's hands is supposed to be a sword. At first, this may seem a small thing, and one frequently compartmentalized in my desire to improve my shinai kendo. But it really is a big deal, it imprints itself in the hands, that feeling. Also, I think both teach a great deal about maai, you know? Even though iaido is done solo, you have to think about where the imagined opponent is and where you are cutting him. This carries over into kendo and vice-versa.

Just my immediate thoughts...

[Kendoka]

Originally posted by tyler
... One of the things that most interests me about kendo is seme...

So how does iaido develop seme, and how is that seme applicable to kendo?

The similarities beween iaido and kendo to me seem to be endless, but you asked about seme.

Seme should be used in all iai kata, in varying ways, depending on the action. It could be with the sword or the body or both, like in 6.

IMHO, training correctly in iai helps to develop seme, if you perform the kata correctly, lots of subtle movements can be used. That transfers directly to kendo, if you work at it and want that extra bit.

Initially a new student may just work the motion of seme, but as experience and confidence build, that can develop further.

Iai and kendo may seem to be different, but I think that they are like hand and glove, IMSHO.

I often notice similarities in movement and various actions.

I think that iai students should all learn kendo to get the feel of actually making contact as well.

8)

[Charlie]

Tyler!

I sent you a PM, bud.

[chidokan]

seme for iaido is harder to develop due to a lack of opponent, however I find that trying to develop it for iaido makes you able to concentrate for longer at it during kendo. If you fence seniors and try and use seme it has to be done quickly or they just pick you off, as they 'see' the cut coming because of the extended time. Eventually you learn to use seme all through the match. This is the pressure you feel from your seniors. To develop your own, try and think "if you move I WILL hit you", dont worry about them being senior to you, treat everyone the same in order to practise this approach.

[Blue Samurai]

This is definitely true.
I am practising three budo, which are focused on the "samurai" weapons.
My opinion is, that it is neccesary to think about budo weapons as the cultivator of ki.
Naginata, jo or katana/tachi, each of these are different budo with common end.
It is not only because we are all humans, the fact of universal energy, which we describe as the "ki" is everywhere, it started in the same point in which it tends to end as well.
That is why you can use iaido technics ind kendo an vice versa.
Personally I think, that more budo you train, the more you can brink to individual discipline.
My example is that when i start naginatado, i cannot do the kihon and cata properly, but when we came to the shiai, I was able to resist to the much more experienced fighters, because of using the iai phylosophy.
This MUST function in every budo, because everything you do can give something to you and make you more experienced.
It is nice, that I met somebody, who thinks about the factors, what came from practising more than one art of swordsmanship.

[Raiza]

To develop your own [seme], try and think "if you move I WILL hit you"

Well said, Tim. Ohmi-sensei has complimented me on my hara-seme, so maybe I can help a bit. I don't know why I have this kind of seme, I just do. I've been working on it, especially during kata sessions. When you are faced with someone, forget who they are and who you are. Lose your self-consciousness. Don't be intimidated by rank, reputation, etc. Just concentrate on the moment. You must relay that you are completely confident and you WILL strike whenever YOU want to!

In short, be the bad-a**!! :D

Ohmi-sensei's (K7 iaido/6 kendo) way better at this than I could aspire to be, tyler, so watch him closely when you have the opportunity. No matter what if he's doing kendo or iai or learning Niten Ichi Ryu kenjutsu, he's got BIG hara-seme.

[tyler]

Raiza,

I totally know what you mean. I've only had the occaision to do jikeiko with Ohmi sensei once when he was visiting Guelph for an iai related event. About 4 or 5 minutes of jikeiko left me so tired, and I suspect it was because of his seme. When I play others at or around my level, I usually feel pretty light and can conserve my energy. But playing advanced players and certainly sensei is so much harder. With Ohmi sensei, it was the feeling of playing a brick wall, no opening whatsoever (which i'm sure has alot to do with iai), but moreover i got the feeling that he was on top of my timing no matter what. No amount of concentration, determination, kiai, waza, anything could have toppled it. As a result, i felt somehow weighed down, impeded. My movements felt labored and not free and I became dog-tired within a few minutes, and I believe it was due to the weight of his seme.

definitly something to aspire to. Thanks to all who's responded to the post so far, its been truly interesting.

Tyler