Does kendo bring out the worst in you?

[MaxPayneWayne]

well, we all know that kendo teaches us respect, etiquette, honor and whatever, but i see alot of people get really upset in tournaments. also, i hear alot of people talk crap about other kenshi. i've seen people throw their shinai on the floor, as well as their kote, men, do, tare, everything. competition brings out the worst in people, so does kendo bring out the worst in you? now obviously, if you don't compete in tournaments, it won't change you. i'm talking about people who compete in tournaments. actual kendo competitors here. i've seen my share of cocky, sore-loser, and poor winner, kenshi out there, and i was wondering if any of you people in the forums are like these guys? cause i sure am hahahahah. and i don't want any idiots posting idiotic remarks like "You shouldn't be doing kendo if all you care about is winning" cause obviously, if you suck like these kinds of people, you know they constantly get humbled at their dojo and in tournaments by ten-year 5-kyus, so their kendo-related posts mean nothing.

[junkyman]

usually, when I know I am gonna lose I will make sure I give the other guy a good crack in the armpit, and if the guy is a real a-hole I might let the tip of my shinai slip into his shoulder or up inside his men.:bandit:

[alexpollijr]

Well, I must confess that it happens from time to time.

Many times I've felt upset and even angry about kendo issues and people, and not only in tournaments. Bad judging, moronic remarks, ogre players, politics, this sort of thing really drives me mad. Fair losses or victories have little impact on my mood, really.

So yes, I've felt (and still feel sometimes) like throwing my gear around, starting arguments, swearing and even whacking other people down, but fortunately up to this day I never did any of these things, just sucked it in and lived it out and eventually that bad feel went away.

But, who knows. I hope that in time I'll be able to leave it behind.

- Alexandre

[Hongsermeier]

I won't lie, I HATE to lose. However, when I do, I try to learn from it. I go home and watch the video and see where I messed up and then practice to not make that mistake again. If the shimpan make a really bad call then I'm pissed. I try to not get mad on the court. That just leads to mistakes. I've seen people get mad, it can get ugly fast.

[tyler]

At tournaments the only time i get mad is if I feel i didn't play the best I could. I've no problem with being beaten, and I take winning in stride because, another day, another match, it could have gone the other way.

So as long as I feel i really gave it my all, thats fine. But last tournament, for example, I didn't warm up properly at all, so I was cold for my first match and I got wiped before I even got going. That's not an excuse - I deserved to lose. And losing would have been fine had I warmed up and felt that I did the best I could. But because i was a moron, I didn't let myself perform as best I could and that made me pretty mad.

never thrown gear or had a fit though.

Tyler

[junkyman]

throwing a fit would be gay

[misterkurukuru]

I like to flip off the judges and i love yelling at them after a shiai!
Kendo does not bring out the evil in me. I am all evil all of the time anyways. i can handle a good butt kicking or a tie, but bad judging sucks and it pisses me off! if you are fighting peopel who you have faught with all of your kendo life, Winning in a shiai is 99% judging and 1% luck. If you are fighting people you do not know, its 75% judging and 15% skill and 10% dumb luck. I cant wait to see the posts that say gay= stupid ( gay does not = homosexual) stuff!

[dorkusxmaximus]

In the beginning, taikais brought out the worse in me because I had a pretty bad attitude after I lost and would glare at fellow kenshi when they told me "good job" even though it wasn't. I really regret that horrible sore loser attitude though (3 taikais and a lot of scolding later, it's fixed ^_^). Now, it's like I just get a little down, but I don't get mad anymore because I finally remembered why I took kendo. It was fun to do, and pushes me really hard. Winning is fun, but the feeling for me doesn't last very long. It's like there for only there for one day and dissipates the next.

[dorkusxmaximus]

scoldings*

[Inouye02]

I feel like rocking the block of Fred Flinstone Sensei....


Yabba Dabba Doooo...

[Paburo]

what i wonder is, why this forum brings the worst out some individuals here.

[Hongsermeier]

Paburo...this is just a forum, and some people just like to bs. I'm sure nothing is really meant seriously.

[dorkusxmaximus]

hongsermeier, that's what i said last time to everyone in this other thread, but i got chewed out.

[smith]

Pissed-off kendo is really, really easy to read.

[Hyaku]

Yes it is a forum. But I suppose like over on Ebudo people were hoping that a Kendo forum would bring out something really worthwile instead of turning it into an AOL chat room.

I suppose its up to the moderators. But if it gets too silly people just wont log on anymore.

Hyaku

[aru-ma]

going back to the topic, sorta.

You shouldn't be doing kendo if all you care about is winning!!! :D

but seriously, if you go into a taikai ofcourse you want to win, same with grading if you go to it you want to pass.

Throwing a hissy fit after loosing fair and square (its still possible you know) is just a bit silly I think.

As far as if it brings the worst in you, it really depends on the individual. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesnt. personally I havent seen anyone described as "cocky, sore-loser, and poor winner kenshi" though I've heard about them. for myself I get upset if I loose in a taikai because it just shows my kendo wasn't good enough.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I just get upset with myself. I get tight in tournaments because I don't get to do them very often, then I beat myself up for performing badly. Kind of a viscious circle but its my own problem and nobody elses.

If the judge makes a bad call, no big deal. Usually there is *some* basis for the call. The judges are often reacting to timing and opportunity and if that looks good they might miss some inaccuracy. For example, if I take a kote on the elbow and the guy gets a point, I just figure he had some nice timing and with a little more accuracy he would have had the kote anyways - still my fault for giving it away, legit kote or elbow shot. Bad waza on the opponent's part doesn't excuse suki on mine.

If a judge missed a call on a real important point (like, say, Ariga-sensei's famous non-doh last worlds) I might be more upset, but never to the point of making a scene. People that throw hissy fits should get tossed out of the tournament. We have rules for that.

[JSchmidt]

My sentiments exactly, Neil. (And same problem in competitions:o )
Hissy fits is a good way to guarantee that next time, borderline calls wont go your way. If you feel you need to let steam out about, go up and talk to the shinpans about it...and I mean talk..not whine. Ask them what they saw and tell them what you 'saw'..it's far more productive and both sides might learn something.

Jakob

[Confound]

If I got upset about losing, I'd be continually upset. As my sensei says, "Losing is atari mae". I can't win with less than two years experience against people who have been fighting for almost as long as I've been alive. The best that can be done is clean kendo. (I have won, twice, but it was a fluke. I'm sure of it.)

It was surprising to see this thread, and disappointing to think that these things happen in kendo. I've never seen them over here, not even among elementary school children...

c

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Confound
It was surprising to see this thread, and disappointing to think that these things happen in kendo. I've never seen them over here, not even among elementary school children...

They do happen. When I was at nationals in Vancouver about 10 years ago, visiting sensei from Japan commented on how well-mannered the participants were, shaking hands after matches and so on. They said in Japan that an overemphasis on competition was leading to bad manners in some taikai.

[Confound]

Neil,

I'm sure it does happen, but I've never seen it. Perhaps this is because the taikai I've seen haven't been "big" or "important". It is only reasonable that tensions would run higher at a Zenkoku tournament, as opposed to the city tournament, or the prefectural one.

c

[samurai999]

Neil, I wouldn't be surprised that bad manners are emerging, if not established already. Japan right now, to me, is like a Japanese-speaking version of California. People in Japan (especially the younger ones) want to generally copy other cultures and mannerisms (especially Western) rather than study and enhance their own. My parents are ALWAYS complaining about this. (almost to the point of sheer paranoia :D) Why do you think we see kenshi with Kinpatsu or chahatsu or with earrings, toerings, etc. This is not the "traditional Japan" that most people, especially America-jin, Europe-jin or Canada-jin expect to see when they see kendo.

Soooo... Tying this in to the competition and bad manners thing, I think that they learn this from other western sports and try to apply this to kendo. Baseball and Basketball are VERY good examples. They see star players arguing calls from referees and umpires and getting into fights and think that they can do the same with kendo. Monkey-see monkey-do.

I'm sure that most people are polite and courteous at matches, but Japan's attitude has changed compared to what I was lead to believe.

My $0.02,
Tim

[Anarei]

I really think that kendo brings out both the best and the worst in you, just like all sports. Of course in an ideal world all kendoka would be fair and always respect one another even when losing but that just isnt the case.

I've never been in a real shi'ai before so I can't really empathise with those who've been victims of bad/biased judging but I think that even if you feel that the shimpan have not been fair, it is only right that you should keep your cool and not throw your shinai down or anything. It just proves that they were right in not awarding you the point because you dont deserve a commendation for displaying good kendo.

[ben]

I don't know about anyone else but the day the winner of the All-Japans punches the air will be a very, very sad day for all of kendo.

b

[William Honda]

I agree with Smith, yes I do.

Pissed off kendo makes you worse.

[iwatekenshi]

If kendo brings out the worse in you then what's the point in doing kendo? What about heijoshin? I.E. This thread should not exist if heijoshin was followed.

Heijoshin is paramount philosophy and not understanding it will compel you to complain and prevent you from improving.

[William Honda]

Sorry, I can see how my writing is not clear. The “yes I do” is to emphasize that I agree with Smith. Not that I get angry.

Rarely does that happen and when it does I attempt to suppress it immediately. Usually my irritation occurs when I think someone is fighting dirty.

I also agree with you that if you were to be pissed all the time there really is no point in doing kendo or golf (I don’t get pissed there either). Not worth it, and then it is no fun.

[dorkusxmaximus]

hmm it's weird that confound is on my ignore list.i didn't even put her there, so i guess she put me on her list then?

[Inouye02]

her name isnt even listed anymore, but who cares

[M.K. Kawai]

Check the re-educating misterkurukuru thread. The moderators laid down the law.

MKK