Chudan

[ahmed61086]

Well, for the last couple of months I have felt that my Men strike had become slow and weak, and I had been wondering why. Today, after practice, I had an epiphany, I was holding my left and right hand too high in Chudan(making even my right arm bent), which was making my Men attack very slow and weak, and which was makeing my body come off the floor upwards, instead of going foward. So I tried just bring my left hand down a little bit, and straightening my right arm, and I could feel a huge difference in the way my body moved toward the target. I was moving more foward, and My men strike was much faster and stronger. I used to hold my chudan low, but felt it was incorrect, and since I am taller than most of my opponents, I unconciously starting holding my left hand higher(by my belly button), which made my Shinia allmost parallel with the floor. Even though I am tall, that doesnt mean that I should bring my left hand higher? I now believe it doesn't, am I right?

So do you feel that the way you hold your chudan effects not only your strikes, but your movement as well. And where exactly do you hold your left and right hand in chudan, and is it different for every person. I now know that my chudan was missing a big element, what types of things have you done to fix your chudan in the past(or right now)? And what things should we focus on to make our chudan kamae more effective? Even small details would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[MikeW]

Well of course your kamae affects your ability to move effectively as well as your ability to strike correctly. For chudan I was taught to hold my left hand at tsukagashira with the last 3 fingers mostly appling the pressure, the little finger having the strongest grip. The positioning of the left hand is about a fist distance out from the body and slightly below the navel. The right hand is positioned at the tsubamoto. The left hand is on the center line of the body. An important thing to remember in chudan is to make sure the left hand keeps the center line of the body and acts as a fulcrum for the strike.

[Awooga Guy]

Interesting thread Ahmed. Awooga Guy will try some of these things in his next practice. Food for thought :)




That is all.

[rfoxmich]

The height difference is the thing.. now relax your right elbow too. Don't hold your right arm extended in kamae or you will find your kote getting popped over and over again.

[sainueng]

The height difference is the thing.. now relax your right elbow too. Don't hold your right arm extended in kamae or you will find your kote getting popped over and over again.

I don't think the right arm should be fully extended either. I usually remind beginners to keep their right elbow bent for a couple reasons. One, like rfoxmich said, you are making it easier to hit for your opponent. Two, it is more likely that your hands are too far away from your body. Three, you are likely too tense and consequently pushing your hands out instead of relaxing. Four, to strike you will have to bend your right elbow back, or you loose the ability to extend your elbow for your strike, both of which weakens your flexibility and speed. However, you definitely shouldn't have either of your elbows too bent either, like you've discovered yourself. :)

On a seperate note, if you find your men strike "slow and weak," the first thing I would check are your shoulders. Make sure those are relaxed and not tense. Make sure you have a smooth swing. This is assuming that you're referring to big men, but might be applicable to sashi men as well.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Ron has taken aim and nailed the correct - straight right arm is a common mistake and results in losing a lot of kote.

WRT hand position, the usual advice is about a fist below and ahead of the navel, but if your arms are longer or shorter this may not work. Just let them hang in a natural, relaxed slight bend. Tension will reduce speed.

[Ignatz]

Ahmed, just so you are prepared, it has been my experience that when I get everyting pretty good and I change one little thing, everything else is all of a sudden completely wrong. Everything is interconnected and you never stop changing.

p.s. there is a plan to visit HMK on Saturday. I hope I can make it.

[ahmed61086]

Ahmed, just so you are prepared, it has been my experience that when I get everyting pretty good and I change one little thing, everything else is all of a sudden completely wrong. Everything is interconnected and you never stop changing.

p.s. there is a plan to visit HMK on Saturday. I hope I can make it.


I am looking foward to the visit, last years visit was very fun.

Also, Do you mean that even if I "fix" something, I am going to go into a "slump" because of the small changed. This has happened before when I started to straighten my left left and keep good posture(I felt like I couldnt even move in the beginning), so if this is what you are talking about, then I know I am in for a rough ride.

Thanks for all of the advise guys.

[ahmed61086]

Also, I know I shouldnt straighten my right arm too much, but I know it was too bent and high up untill recently.

Neil, a fist below and ahead of the navel sounds perfect, this is what felt best when I was experimenting, and I noticed it would naturaly straigthen my right arm without keeping it too straight, plus keeping it relaxed. Now I just have to wait untill tomorrow to put it into action at practice.


BTW John, I think the visit is on the 26th this time. This saturday is the Bong Rim Gi tournament, is kenshinkai coming?

[Ignatz]

BTW John, I think the visit is on the 26th this time. This saturday is the Bong Rim Gi tournament, is kenshinkai coming?
thanks for pointing that out, I was concerned because i still can't do practice two days in a row.:(
apparently I can't read a calendar either. I am not aware of the tournament though. Good luck andhope to see you on sunday. Oh yeah, tell that big guy that I was doing keiko with that I wrote his name on my shinai.:laugh:

[Ignatz]

oops. just looked at the calander and the 26th is a saturday. Great thing about alzheimers is that in ten minutes I won't even remember this post.

[ahmed61086]

thanks for pointing that out, I was concerned because i still can't do practice two days in a row.:(
apparently I can't read a calendar either. I am not aware of the tournament though. Good luck andhope to see you on sunday. Oh yeah, tell that big guy that I was doing keiko with that I wrote his name on my shinai.:laugh:

I cant remember what I ate for breakfast, so your not as bad as you think.

And that big guy is a state trooper, he told me he has your name on his gun. And he is waiting for you. ;)

Make sure you get there, Ill buy the gatorade.

[ahmed61086]

Sorry for the double post, but back on subject.

I went to practice today with my new and improved chudan, and I could feel such a big difference in my Men strike. It was much faster, stronger, and more crisp, and it felt good.

[Yiu Fai]

One month ago, I was told by one of the nidans in our club that my right arm was too straight and that I needed to bend it more. (But not too bent) Since heeding his advice, I've found that I concede a lot less kote and my movement for my cuts is more fluid. (Apparently whilst I was in straight right arm chudan my movements were really jerky when going forward) Now, time to work on my actual technique, speed, timing, fitness and everything else :D

[ne0r]

Can someone explain to me why a too much bent right arm makes your kote an easy target?

Thanks
Alex

[sainueng]

Can someone explain to me why a too much bent right arm makes your kote an easy target?

Thanks
Alex

If your right arm is straight, your hand is farther away from you and closer to your opponent, making it easier for him to reach it. You also need to bend your arm back (slightly) to strike.

If your right arm is too bent, the angle becomes very good for your opponent to strike. It makes a very nice sound. :D It's another reason you shouldn't bend your right elbow and bring back your right hand as you go for your strikes, like sashi men.

[ne0r]

Ah, ok, now I understand a little better.

Thanks for the reply!

[hyuna]

I think the single biggest improvement in my chudan has come from trying to use my hips and body to fight for center instead of my hands.

By "fight for center" I don't mean doing osae or harai or something like that. I just mean doing what people usually mean by holding a strong kamae and holding center.

[Andoru]

I think the single biggest improvement in my chudan has come from trying to use my hips and body to fight for center instead of my hands.

By "fight for center" I don't mean doing osae or harai or something like that. I just mean doing what people usually mean by holding a strong kamae and holding center.

Good post hyuna!

[JByrd]

Ahmed, just so you are prepared, it has been my experience that when I get everyting pretty good and I change one little thing, everything else is all of a sudden completely wrong. Everything is interconnected and you never stop changing.

That also helps explain the "one step back, two steps forward" phenomenon I've often experienced. I upgrade one aspect of my technique, but because it isn't yet integrated, the result is that my overall performance decreases (I lose ki ken tai no itchi).

It's easy to give up and fall back in my old rut when that happens. But if I persist, I'll eventually make the secondary adaptations to get ki ken tai no itchi back, and when I do it is a little better than before.

[Mokuso]

Can someone explain to me why a too much bent right arm makes your kote an easy target?

Thanks
Alex

Because people can see you stroking your Shinai LOL :D