Ranking idea.

[samurai999]

I remember my sensei tossing this around practice one day and wanted to see how you guys would react.

The idea is to introduce different color men-himo (they already do this in Japan, but not for ranking purposes) to indicate what rank you are.

Why do I propose this? I am getting complaints from other players that they go up against other players that look "distinguished", but are in fact beginners.. By that, I mean, you get bashed when you go up against that person thinking that they are a dan.. It is also a good indicator as to who you can practice tsuki or other moves against as well as different kamae. How can you practice moves like tsuki, migi do, or jodan or nito ryu against a kyu? They are supposedly still learning basics. There are also some arrogant beginners who buy $2000 bogu in order to look distinguished when in fact, they are not. I have seen people not even ranked yet spending thousands for bogu. But most of all, it might be fun for the kids. Of course, if a guy wants a pink men himo, then that is another thing.. :eek:

Hongsermeier's wife had red men himo when she first started at Palo Alto. However, they asked her to take it off when the shimpan mistook it for a tasuki.

Please, no flaming.. Just tell me why you guys think it is good or bad. That is all. Just collecting info.

Tim

[nodachi]

"There are also some arrogant beginners who buy $2000 bogu in order to look distinguished when in fact, they are not"

I wouldn't go as far as 2000, but I am a beginner and I am going to be spending a bit of money when I have it for bogu. Not that I am trying to be arogant or look distinguished, I just want something that will last a long time. I can't afford to get something cheap and end up spending more money in the long run on repairs.

As for indicators of ability, doesn't the whole lining up at the beginning and end of class help to distinguish that.

I am sorry for being negative, but I like the lack of belts and displays of rank. This way you have to treat everyone as an unknown factor and take each new, unknown opponent seriously.

For deciding on what kamae and things like whether tsuki is okay, isn't it polite to ask before hand? Hence there will be no need for colored himo to clarify rank because the discussion will sort out what is okay to practice and what is not.

Sorry for being against it, but I like the unknown factor and the whole humbleness aspect of not displaying rank.

[AlexM]

I honestly don't like it. Bad idea. What's wrong with asking if the person wants you to use jodan or nito or tsuki or whatnot?

I'm not so much worried about it affecting beginners (like myself) as I am about it going to the heads of higher ranked people. Something I always liked about kendo is that the rankings are invisible until you actually practice with someone. I always found that rank can be easily dismissed in kendo, you just focus on results and actual practice. I'd rather people judge me by my kendo rather than by my rank (of course that actually would help me since I'm a kyu with the rank of shodan).

Besides, what's to stop people from buying different colored himo? I think they have this problem in other martial arts. People can just order whatever they want.

I suppose what I'm saying is that I'd rather keep the emphasis on a person's actual kendo rather than start looking for what colored himo they have.

[Danny Boy]

You see the other person's rank from the moment you cross shinai with him/her.
No need to indicate it any other way, or it'll get to your head.

[Inouye02]

for 1kyu and lower , if you wear the dark color keiko gi you have to have a 1" wide white stripe on the left sleeve, especially if you go keiko at another dojo and they dont know you , you could get tsuki'd right out the gate in keiko ...

[JSchmidt]

Nah, as others said, you should be able to see peoples grade when you practice with them.

Jakob

[samurai999]

Originally posted by nodachi
"There are also some arrogant beginners who buy $2000 bogu in order to look distinguished when in fact, they are not"

I wouldn't go as far as 2000, but I am a beginner and I am going to be spending a bit of money when I have it for bogu. Not that I am trying to be arogant or look distinguished, I just want something that will last a long time. I can't afford to get something cheap and end up spending more money in the long run on repairs.

As for indicators of ability, doesn't the whole lining up at the beginning and end of class help to distinguish that.

I am sorry for being negative, but I like the lack of belts and displays of rank. This way you have to treat everyone as an unknown factor and take each new, unknown opponent seriously.

For deciding on what kamae and things like whether tsuki is okay, isn't it polite to ask before hand? Hence there will be no need for colored himo to clarify rank because the discussion will sort out what is okay to practice and what is not.

Sorry for being against it, but I like the unknown factor and the whole humbleness aspect of not displaying rank.

Not a problem at all. Again, I'm asking for peoples thoughts on it.

*sigh* I wish it were as easy as lining up to decide seniority and rank in the class..

Next, sensei (especially the younger ones) usually don't ask you if they can do tsuki on you even if you are a 6th kyu doing jiyuu geiko. They usually tsuki you or do some crazy waza anyways...

As for the bogu thing, I don't really care if you spend 2000$ on bogu... Its just such a waste if you do that and quit after a week. I have seen it happen before. Plus I have been taught to not spend too much money on something unless you have "gotten somewhere" in my studies or practices or training or whatever... My bogu set? The original set I got from Eguchi was ~800$. The middle of the line.

Tim

[tyler]

I have to say I don't like it either. I've also heard stories about people who enter themselves as below their actual rank in order to dominate tournaments. I suppose the colored himo or some other indication could be enforced, but at the expense of losing the humbil/unknown factor which I also like alot.
I'd sooner preserve the rather unique characteristic of no outward rank indicator and let a few people cheat themselves here and there, than lose the rank anonymity to curb what ultimatly is a negligible problem (everyone can tell when it happens and in my limited experience its been really rare). Forgive my spelling errors, interesting thread topic.

Tyler

[samurai999]

I guess for the most part, it is more of being traditional? Is the idea of colored men himo too flashy as well? The "unknown" factor is great in one way, but is sorta crappy in others.. It makes people feel like equals and as a result, makes the environment less constrictive. But I have encountered the bad... When I was 0kyu and went up with this one 4dan, the guy totally ran me ragged. He tsuki'ed me twice. Had no clue what to do so I tried to dodge.. Bad mistake. One caught me in the armpit and the other caught me in the chest. He then did migi do while I was still at kamae and got me in the left elbow.. He apologized for the hits and all but he didn't know that I was a kyu. Next time he played "more down to earth".

Again, in Japan, they let the kids use purple, red, white, etc, but not for ranking purposes... it is usually used to show team unity, etc..

Inouye2, I was looking at the pics on the Covina dojo site the other day and some kids had the left arm stripes like you were talking about.

Tim

[Anarei]

team unity... thats an interesting idea. would be fun to see the teams at the world cup all sporting different men himo colours to represent their nationality...

but coming back to the topic of rank, well, i think it would be nice to have the different colours to indicate rank. not only is there the obvious advantage of knowing how to treat your opponent (or rather how not to mistreat them), it would give kendoka something to look forward to as well when they go for their grading. before i get slammed for encouraging arrogance, let me clarify that it is like the cherry on the cake to confirming that you have reached the higher level of kendo. also, it might make it easier to line up according to seniority during seisa at the beginning and end of training... esp since it is hard 2 identify ppl with bogu on from the side or back view unless u're standing v close. just some ideas.

[nodachi]

"it might make it easier to line up according to seniority during seisa at the beginning and end of training... esp since it is hard 2 identify ppl with bogu on from the side or back view unless u're standing v close. just some ideas."

Lining up during seiza according to seniority is easy. If you are unsure where you fit, go lower. This may bother some people, but it is still more of that humble aspect kicking in. The head sensei I had in Japan was clearly the best in the dojo and should sit at the head of the line, but he would often try and sit farther down the line in a lower ranking area. To his dislike, the older sensei would drag him back into his place at the head of the line up.

Or does anyone have a specific reason why if someone is in a slightly wrong position in the line up it would cause a drastic problem at practice?

[Paburo]

what about the ranking method used in kumdo?
i myself haven't been in any kumdo class as of yet, but i think i read something around here about the uniform being different according to your rank in kumdo. something about a stripe in your white hakama or something like that?
does anybody know exactly how it goes?

[Inouye02]

amended by SCKF Board 9/8/01
For kyu kenshi wearing a dark blue keikogi/uwagi, it is up to each dojo whether to require a white stripe approximately 1" wide encircling the left sleeve.

Tim,

This is why we have this amenment, so experiences like you had wont happen to someone else , but some dont want to wear the stripe cause it ruins the look of their keiko gi, personaly i think all kyu should ONLY wear the white keiko gi...

[hobbit]

In the Eikoku Kendo Renmei, mudansha and children do wear white keikogi, yudansha wear the blue. As far as bogu goes, there is quality and there is ostentatious . . . $2000 may be cosidered ott by some, but it's your money. The difference is in the colour etc. My old sensei had a beautiful green metalflake do, something which I really fancied, he told me I could wear one if I liked, but would be considered fair game for anyone to try to cut it. To wear something like that would be advertising yourself as "the fastest gun". The nail that stands proud gets hammered flat.

[m_french]

My sampai Inouye-san and i will have to disagree here, while I understand the practice of not throwing tsuki at younger kenshi, I think that if you are an adult learning kendo you need to be prepared for what ever comes. as for me if you throw a migi-do, tsuki, want to use jodan or Nito.......whatever just let me return the favor. I know that as a beginner working on my chudan is essential so until I have more experience another kamae is not in the cards, but I don't think that not exposing Kyu level kenshi to all possible attacks in kendo makes sense. If we are afraid of getting hurt ....let's be realistic, kendo is practiced by hitting someone with a stick....while precautions are taken to minimize serious injury, it's not tiddley winks or jacks. You need to be exposed to learn.:beard:

[samurai999]

Originally posted by m_french
My sampai Inouye-san and i will have to disagree here, while I understand the practice of not throwing tsuki at younger kenshi, I think that if you are an adult learning kendo you need to be prepared for what ever comes. as for me if you throw a migi-do, tsuki, want to use jodan or Nito.......whatever just let me return the favor. I know that as a beginner working on my chudan is essential so until I have more experience another kamae is not in the cards, but I don't think that not exposing Kyu level kenshi to all possible attacks in kendo makes sense. If we are afraid of getting hurt ....let's be realistic, kendo is practiced by hitting someone with a stick....while precautions are taken to minimize serious injury, it's not tiddley winks or jacks. You need to be exposed to learn.:beard:

I do agree with you on the "you have to be prepared for what is coming to you" part French. But what about beginners who don't really know what to expect or are just starting out with bogu? Remember that we had (and still have) plenty of those. They get taught men, kote and hidari dou.. Not tsuki, migi dou, debana kote or yoko men. There was a person up here recently (a dan) who got his ribs broken by a missed tsuki. I'd really hate for that to happen to a person just starting out. Nasty bruises and aching muscles are one thing and something you just deal with. Broken bones and concussions are another. When I was a kyu, I was mistaken for a 2dan, 3dan and a 1dan when I was only a 5kyu!!! :eek: Although I was flattered, I'm still wondering why to this day..

This is also exactly why I get so much grief from my father playing kendo. He is totally paranoid that I will get some debilitating injury that will ruin my engineering career, school grades, etc. Being afraid of being hurt is something you can't be in kendo, but once it happens it always sticks with you in the back of you mind. Before my injury, I dislocated my ankle 2x playing bball in college. Everytime after that, I'm always favoring it when I pivot, plant or whatever on it even though it is supposed to be "out of sight, out of mind".

But all that aside, the point I'm trying to make is that for those reasons, we should have some indicator for rank.

Tim

[Hongsermeier]

Originally posted by m_french
I know that as a beginner working on my chudan is essential so until I have more experience another kamae is not in the cards, .:beard:

French....Not to mention if you tried Jodan you have a mighty big do target. :cross_eye

[samurai999]

Originally posted by Anarei
team unity... thats an interesting idea. would be fun to see the teams at the world cup all sporting different men himo colours to represent their nationality...


Haha!! Brazil would be a country I'd expect to have something from. They are always a colorful country when I seen them competing in the Soccer World Cup. Green and yellow men himo? :D

Tim

[samurai999]

Originally posted by Hongsermeier


French....Not to mention if you tried Jodan you have a mighty big do target.

THWACK!!! LOL

Tim

[nodachi]

"some dont want to wear the stripe cause it ruins the look of their keiko gi, personaly i think all kyu should ONLY wear the white keiko gi..."

So then what do beginner adults do who don't have the money to buy the dark blue keiko gi later? I am sure it depends on how quickly one is allowed to be promoted up the kyu grades, but in general, adults will improve more quickly than children. They are already done growing into their bodies, they may focus more, or for whatever reasons. So why should beginner adults be forced to buy a new gi after a potentially short time frame? Sorry, but this is the perspective of someone who, when I was in Japan, was presented with the idea of taking my ikkyu test, and then a few months later, taking the shodan test, hence it would be requiring me to buy a new keiko gi over a short period of time and requiring me to do such a thing is just cost prohibitive, I just couldn't afford it.

Just a random thought...

[Old Warrior]

"So why should beginner adults be forced to buy a new gi after a potentially short time frame?"

All kyu students are required to wear a white uniform in our school ( http://kumdo.co.kr/kendoacademy/) and rank is designated for kyu students as stripes on their right sleeve. Also, there is a small box on that sleeve where you are required to write your name. Lastly, I can't see how one could acheive shodan in less than 2 years and by then your uniform has to have taken a pretty good beating.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I think the BCKF used to give coloured patches to their kids to indicate rank, they'd sew them to their sleeve. This is more for encouragement purposes than anything else. We're considering doing the same thing with our kids.

As far as the safety stuff - do any of you really practice in such a big dojo that you don't know who everybody is and roughly what rank they all are? Senior people should be able to tell in about the first 10 seconds what level of practice to give somebody. If senior people are beating the crap out of juniors, that's a problem for their seniors to resolve, it won't be made better by a stripe. This is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

PS to OW: I've bought 3 uniforms in 20 years. Good ones last a long time.

[Old Warrior]

Neil - a uniform came with the first lesson package. The jacket is quilted and fairly sturdy, but the hakama is cheap cotton that is really showing wear after 7 months (the velcro waistband is shredding). The jackets we all wear, have the school patch and some Korean writing and the hakama has this cheesy black stripe down the side. But, its the uniform of the day and one has to fit in.

[Hyaku]

Is it allowable in Japan? People have freedom to wear something different at normal practice but for taikai its team colours. At gradings all wear the same and do not show names so that we can clearly define an advancement in experience.

I think one of the things that attracted me to Kendo in the first place was the fact that everbody did wear the same after doing some rather macho Karate and Jujitsu for a number of years. I found it to be a very humbling experience where someone simply sat down in a particular place and "knew" their level. On going into a dojo its quite obvious who is who from where they sit and stand. Jigeiko at taikai etc can be a bit of a free for all but its not that bad. I think part of the fun is going into chudan with somebody who is wearing the same to be nicely surprised by what he has in store for you. I know I have done it many times.

Ones whole lifetime is learning basics. May sound rather boring but if anyone wants to reach a level on a par with Japan thats what they are going to have to do. If some one went into Jodan or tried Nito agains me I think I would curl up laughing rather than be insulted.

Coloured men himo would be fine but where would it all end? Judo started off with coloured belts and now they have different Gi too.

I think one also has to consider the fact that in Japan we all wear the same out of a sense of belonging. One teacher friend of mine expressed embarassment once when his blue keikogi was in the wash and he wore a white one.

Hello Hobbit

How is Knutsen Sensei these days?

Hyaku

[nodachi]

To OW, how one can achieve shodan quickly?

Well maybe they were pushing me ahead because I was a gaijin and they wanted to give me something I didn't deserve yet, but when I was in Japan they were going to test me for ikkyu after about 7 months, and if i passed, then 3 months later they were going to have me test for shodan. They skipped the whole lower kyu ranks for adults and you start at going for ikkyu.

The reason I am pushing for not forcing people to buy a different gi is because (if the rules of your dojo or federation allow for quick ranking up the kyu grades) then one would be forced to spend even more money on kendo by buying a new gi after a short while and it will make kendo even more expensive and scare people away because of the costs of it all. It is a crappy reason to not do something because you lack the money, it sucks that it prevents people from doing what they want to, but it is the reality of things. And if you want Kendo to grow, forcing people to buy more stuff and up the costs of it will only prevent people from starting. If you want kendo to grow more, policies need to consider the economic side of things or us poor folk would just avoid it in the first place.

Also, all adults in my club wore the blue gi, regardless of rank.

[Old Warrior]

nodachi - actually I was doing some simple mathematics when I figured shodan was unattainable in two years. I belong to a "commercial" school. There are 10 Keup (Kyu) grades and testing is every two to three months. You are asked to test when the Master decides its time. He keeps strict attendance records and I'm just guessing, but It seems to me that when he has you fill out the test application - he has already decided that you will pass. My biggest motivation to someday become shodan - is just to get out of the white unifom. I just hope the old body holds out that long.

[Inouye02]

back in the days , wearing a dark gi was only for shodan and up . so upon recieving the black belt rank it meant more to someone to be able to wear the dark gi...but Jodan, Tsuki, hasso , and other kamae was only for yondan and up...now you can do anything you want at shodan..

When i passed shodan got my dark gi i was so proud of it, after 32 yrs I still have it,of course it doesnt fit anymore.. I hope to give it to my son when he reaches shodan, hopefull in 5 yrs from now ..

Hey French watch out for Jotaro and his baby Nito Ryu ..ahahaha

[samurai999]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill

As far as the safety stuff - do any of you really practice in such a big dojo that you don't know who everybody is and roughly what rank they all are? Senior people should be able to tell in about the first 10 seconds what level of practice to give somebody. If senior people are beating the crap out of juniors, that's a problem for their seniors to resolve, it won't be made better by a stripe. This is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.



The size issue is a reality in mine. We get anywhere from 30 to 60 students a practice. Little less than a third are shodan and above. Another third are "experienced kyus". A bit more than a third are "lower kyus" and people who are just starting to wear bogu. I guess I sorta forgot that most dojos have ~20-30 people at practice at most..

Tim

[nodachi]

Impressive!

[slidercrank]

Samurai999:

Which dojo is this??

[dorkusxmaximus]

There's some kenshi I know that has a red himo tried around his men. It looks pretty kewl in my opinion ^_^. I really wouldn't like the idea of colored himo representing rank because a person could be shodan or above and could lose to a kenshi that's lower ranking in a shiai, or that kyu could hold his or her own during ji-geiko against the higher-ranking opponent-I saw that happen a few times at taikais and practice.

Pssst hey Jamie, how old is your son =P ?

[Hongsermeier]

slidercrank...Samurai999 is talking about Palo Alto. One of the two biggest in the US I believe. French and I used to practice there before moving to So Cal.

[hamish]

Actually, different coloured men himo are used in some dojo in Japan to differentiate kyuu grades for kids and make them feel a bit special, in an attempt to get more kids practicing.

[roar]

How is Knutsen Sensei these days?

The old Roald knutsen? Is he still alive?

[m_french]

Originally posted by samurai999


There was a person up here recently (a dan) who got his ribs broken by a missed tsuki. Tim

Ouch..... seems like an odd injury on tsuki though!:beard:

[m_french]

Originally posted by Hongsermeier


French....Not to mention if you tried Jodan you have a mighty big do target. :cross_eye

you'd have to get in first my freind. "Beware of the anvil Waza":beard:

[m_french]

Originally posted by Inouye02

Hey French watch out for Jotaro and his baby Nito Ryu ..ahahaha

Great, now there will be two of you chasing me around the Dojo:beard:

[Inouye02]

he's 10 , 4 kyu.. has to wait until he's 15 to get shodan

[hobbit]

Knutsen sensei is still going - http://www.kendo-uk.org/, however I haven't seen him for several years; after a 5 year + break, I am currently training at another dojo.

[William Honda]

Back from a short vacation.

I have to agree with Inouye 02, anything worthwhile does not come cheaply.

Being an adult should not be a factor to push someone to shodan quickly. Ability should be the only factor. As far as I can tell, that should be about 5 years. Four if you are a quick learner. (agree kids should be made to wait - 12 year old Shodan? - no!)

I agree that you will be found out in short order when practicing with someone. I do not think tsuki should be thrown by Kyus for any reason, and I do not think Dans should use any other kamae than Chudan for Kyus.

There was a reason for the "old rules", one needs to learn how to crawl, then walk, then run. It will also be accomplishment when one reaches Dan and can change to the dark uwagi.

Just my opinion.

[Inouye02]

[/B][/QUOTE]WILLIAM HONDA


Being an adult should not be a factor to push someone to shodan quickly. Ability should be the only factor.


Does that mean you won't be going out this year ?wahahahaha

and I do not think Dans should use any other kamae than Chudan for Kyus.

OK I get the hint abdula, no more keiko with you ...m m m m m m m m men !!!

[dorkusxmaximus]

Jamie, your kid's going to be hella good when he gets older.

[Inouye02]

hmmmm nancy , I just hope he stays in Kendo, I wanna see him do that teenager twisty, jumpy kendo stuff against me ...all the senseis he practices with says he does very good basic kendo , i have a video of him BEATING MR HONDA ahahahaha ...remember that HONDA ? but anyways I might bring him up north someday to keiko with you ...he likes Jodan with a 34 shinai...

[dorkusxmaximus]

As long as he has fun in kendo, he'll stick to it for sure. I love watching teenager kendo! My my all that energy and enthusiasm ^_^. He beat Honda? I want to see!!! Haha yeah it'll be fun to keiko with him. I'm sure he'll put me in my place. It wouldn't be the first time getting beat up by a little kid. ahhh my first taikai.

[dorkusxmaximus]

Maybe he can keiko with my bro in 1-2 years. I'll make him stick to kendo long enough to get himself a set of bogu, and take him down to California to practice.

[Inouye02]

your welcome anytime to come down and practice...

[M.K. Kawai]

I want to see that video!!! :)

MKK

[Inouye02]

hahahaha it was from the Westside Kendo Demo at Mar Vista Rec Park...2002.

i dunno honda might lay the smackdown on me at keiko ...

[William Honda]

Got my butt handed to me by a 9 year old. Why do you think I said they have to wait to get their dan?

[PhilMcLaughlin]

Hi Hobbit

I dont know what dojo you are training in but there are a lot of former renmei students in the BKA (doing good kendo ;-) , especially in the midlands and north - say hello sometime (are you going to wkc12?)

As for younger senseis beating up beginners - that is most definitely an issue of bad attitude . As lots of other have pointed out its easy enough to pick up on the level of your opponent

Way back we used to encourage kyudans to wear white keikogi and only let them have blue once they reached shodan but really its simply down to the fencers and colours etc ought not to be relevant to adults (nothing wrong with badges & colours for the kids though)

If you are MUCH better than your opponent then you ought to pick that up instantly and act accordingly. If you are MUCH worse youll find the opponents shinai on your head ;-). If you are about even - well thats where the fun lies !

cheers

[hobbit]

Hi Phil, I am training with John Howell at the Shinbukan, Horsham.
Maybe see you at the Lidstone, or Mumeshi 3's?

[Anarei]

It seems like there are really a lot more varities in kendo dressing than i figured... wowee...

Over here everyone (more or less) wears the dark blue gi... dunno abt kids cos my dojo's all teens/adults... and only those with a dan are allowed 2 wear white, its optional though and rather rare. So when someone walks in with white gi everyone goes "Wowww..." So instead of longing for the blue gi, people are dreaming of getting shodan and nidan to be able 2 show up in white =)

20-30 ppl? gosh thats a big dojo man

[moocow65]

yeah.. i say punk the little kids who think they're good. that'll bring them down to earth. i like showing kids how good they AREN'T by going all out on them whether it's with nito or seigan. it'll put things in perspective for them. they'll realize that they have a looooooooong way to go. same goes for me. when i go against people from japan, it reminds me that i have a whole lot of work to do. back to the topic, yeah i think it might be a good idea to have some kind of indication what rank you are. i remember i was at the nisei week tournament, and i was doing motodachi for the kihon shiai. this shodan or nidan, whatever she was, was doing the roll call making sure all the participants were there. i forgot what dojo she was from. i was talking to one of my guys, giving them last-minute advice on kihon, then this low-ranking girl grabs my shoulder and pulls me back to look at my zekken to see if i was on her roll call list. i was in shock. i couldn't believe anyone, especially someone who's only a shodan/nidan would do that to a fellow kenshi. obviously, she thought i was some inexperienced beginner participating in the kihon shiai. well let me tell you something, if you're reading this whoever you are. you don't ever disrespect another kenshi like that. ESPECIALLY if you don't know them and ESPECIALLY if they have a higher rank than YOU! maybe i should have been wearing my team usa keikogi, hakama, and zekken. that's one way to represent rank i guess. but then again, i believe that stuff is for one time use only. maybe if we had what rank we were painted on our do-? hahahah i wouldn't mind have a big "SAN-DAN" painted on my do. haha

[roar]

yeah.. i say punk the little kids who think they're good. that'll bring them down to earth. i like showing kids how good they AREN'T by going all out on them whether it's with nito or seigan. it'll put things in perspective for them. they'll realize that they have a looooooooong way to go. same goes for me. when i go against people from japan, it reminds me that i have a whole lot of work to do. back to the topic, yeah i think it might be a good idea to have some kind of indication what rank you are. i remember i was at the nisei week tournament, and i was doing motodachi for the kihon shiai. this shodan or nidan, whatever she was, was doing the roll call making sure all the participants were there. i forgot what dojo she was from. i was talking to one of my guys, giving them last-minute advice on kihon, then this low-ranking girl grabs my shoulder and pulls me back to look at my zekken to see if i was on her roll call list. i was in shock. i couldn't believe anyone, especially someone who's only a shodan/nidan would do that to a fellow kenshi. obviously, she thought i was some inexperienced beginner participating in the kihon shiai. well let me tell you something, if you're reading this whoever you are. you don't ever disrespect another kenshi like that. ESPECIALLY if you don't know them and ESPECIALLY if they have a higher rank than YOU! maybe i should have been wearing my team usa keikogi, hakama, and zekken. that's one way to represent rank i guess. but then again, i believe that stuff is for one time use only. maybe if we had what rank we were painted on our do-? hahahah i wouldn't mind have a big "SAN-DAN" painted on my do. haha


The only achivement in kendo is your last shiai, if your ego aches, take it as a warning sign.

What do YOU want to achieve in your practise?

Why should you wear an indication on your present level of understanding kendo, when you smack your ego in the face of innnocent forumites. No need at all.

I think you overreacted, you are not a hachidan hanshi.

[PhilMcLaughlin]

FWIW I think its up to the senior person to understand what to do

If you are equal then you fence equally

If you are junior then you try to make your cut and trust your senior

If you are senior then youll know it from the rei onwards and should take that into account

Of course mileage varies but id be wondering about the ethos of a 'senior' and or dojo (and or organisation) where the 'seniors' are giving the juniors a bad time (been there done that - now understand that that isnt good kendo)

I used to like the idea of kyu grades wearing a white keikogi as it was inspirational to earn the right to a blue keikogi But its daft the think that a senior doesnt know the level of the student after a few seconds so really it shouldn't matter

Personally i dont like the idea of coloured himo etc

cheers

[roncufley]

How is Knutsen Sensei these days?

The old Roald knutsen? Is he still alive?

He was alive and well last Sunday and spent three hours practising Iai.

[SirFingerLickin]

I dont like the idea either. I like the humbleness of kendo. I think its fairly easy to tell approximately what grade and such from practicing with them, and that is the best way IMHO. I practice in a relatively small dojo, approximately 15-20 people are the more hardcore and committed students, about a 3rd are nidan and above. We all know eachother so we all know what should and shouldnt be used against eachother.

[moocow65]

[QUOTE=roar]The only achivement in kendo is your last shiai, if your ego aches, take it as a warning sign.

What do YOU want to achieve in your practise?

Why should you wear an indication on your present level of understanding kendo, when you smack your ego in the face of innnocent forumites. No need at all.

I think you overreacted, you are not a hachidan hanshi.

Yup, and I think you overreacted upon reading my post. Did you really think I would like having a big "San-Dan" on my do?? And my post wasn't about ego, it was about having respect for everyone from beginners to hachidan hanshi. everyone except YOU.

[roar]

[QUOTE=moocow65][QUOTE=roar]

Yup, and I think you overreacted upon reading my post. Did you really think I would like having a big "San-Dan" on my do??

no, nobody is that stupid.

And my post wasn't about ego, it was about having respect for everyone from beginners to hachidan hanshi. everyone except YOU.

You break my heart


I will repeat your last sentence, so you dont have to reply to get the last word:


" And my post wasn't about ego, it was about having respect for everyone from beginners to hachidan hanshi. everyone except YOU."

[MaxPayneWayne]

"your only achievement in kendo is your last shiai?" what's that supposed to mean? in order to achieve anything in kendo, i have to be in a shiai???

[John Shin]

what about the ranking method used in kumdo?
i myself haven't been in any kumdo class as of yet, but i think i read something around here about the uniform being different according to your rank in kumdo. something about a stripe in your white hakama or something like that?
does anybody know exactly how it goes?
I study Kumdo and we (and all of the other Kumdo dojangs in the area) display rank by very small, red, rectangular patchs sewn onto the right sleeve. We start at level 0, then work our way from 9th keup up through 1st Keup. After every rank test that we pass, we receive another red patch. You would eventually have two rows of 5 patches when you've reached 1st degree black belt (sorry, I'm not used to the Japenese terms for 1st degree and lower ranks).

[T.Lee]

funny how this thread was dragged out from the dead....


personaly i think all kyu should ONLY wear the white keiko gi...

so how come you told me you didnt have a problem with my blue gi when i asked??? whaddup wit 'dat?

bah, im fine with wearing the stripe of tape on my sleeve. im just pissed i keep losing to cody and andrew!

[GrandCentral9]

At the kumdo dojang where I study, "rank" is indicated by the color of the uniform. We don't have patches or anything, it's just that only shodan and above wear the indigo dogi and hakama, whereas kyu ranks wear a white top and black hakama. I'd much rather have an indigo uniform, but oh well :)

[Martin (Wakey)]

Just to hark back to the point in the first post about $2000 Bogu.

Ever heard of the saying "I'm too poor to buy crap"?

[Inouye02]

funny how this thread was dragged out from the dead....



so how come you told me you didnt have a problem with my blue gi when i asked??? whaddup wit 'dat?

bah, im fine with wearing the stripe of tape on my sleeve. im just pissed i keep losing to cody and andrew!

you never asked me!!!! you probably asked when you weren't a member yet, but you should ask honda about it. since i'm not sitting on that side anymore, i don't care , but if you want to be a monemi look alike it's cool , hahahaha

maybe Cody and Andrew are more disiplined than you, you think you can go out there and bang them around , but they probably are setting you up for the kote, they listen to what Okada sensei tells them ...muahahahahaha!!! be humble and wear the white...

[Matlock]

What first interested me about kendo was that no one wore ranks to show where they stood. Everyone looks the same. I was getting tired of the karate classes that had every color in the rainbow and when you finally obtained black, they started putting rings on the ends to show which rank of black you were. Talk about trying to brag. I have seen so many of those "black-belts" struting around showing off their brand new ranks. Give me a break.

I am of the mind that "Judge me not by my colors, but of my skills and performance". I would much rather someone look at me and underestimate my ability, it would not hurt my ego one bit. I would rather not have someone look at my belt, hakama, or whatever and see that I am a 3-dan and expect a 3-dan performance. There have been many times where people have thought my rank was higher than my actual rank. Just because you are currenly ranked a 3-dan does not mean you have those skills. You may be closer to 4-dan or just was very very lucky with the 3-dan promotion. Let the skills speak for themselves.

Ranks are for your personal development and continual growth. They are not something to be showed to every person who looks over at you.

Now stop worrying about what rank you are and get out there and hit some heads!!!!