What is the correct use of Kamaes in a fight?

[KENSHIN]

Hi people,

I have a question that has been bugging me and I know that it is something that I could ask my sensei, but I feel embarrassed to ask because he may think why on earth is a cockroach classed kendokan wanting to know this at this stage of his training. Anyway, the thing I want to understand is why when a person decides to fight in Jodan (sp?) has to remain in Jodan if that is what they started out in their fight, and same applying to all the other kamaes. Must that person remain in Jodan for the entire duration of the fight or can that person switch from Chudan to Jodan to Gedan as much as they like in one fight depending on what kind of strategy they are trying to apply?

Another question I would like to ask is why is it if a lower levelled kendokan decides to go into Jodan everyone seems to think lowly of him for doing so. It seems that it is frowned upon if a low levelled kendokan decides to use that kamae. Or am I just talking out of my ass?

KENSHIN

[KhawMengLee]

Well, in our dojo here in Malaysia you only do jodan if the Sensei asks you too or you are 3 dan +.

[KENSHIN]

But why is that? what is so special about the use of Jodan?

[Hongsermeier]

It's not that Jodan, or any other kamae, is special. It's about learning your basics well with proper technique first. Then you can move on to other things. In the US I don't believe it's in writing, but it is recomended to be at least shodan or nidan before trying "different" things.

[Phlebas]

From my understanding, it would be considered slightly "arrogant" to believe that you are ready to use Jodan when you are still early in your learning of Kendo.

At first I thought this was one of those things about Kendo that would never make sense to me, but as I progress I find I agree with this rule-of-thumb. I think it would be better to train hard using ONE kamae and get very good at it, rather than being merely adequate with TWO kamae. When I asked the same question I was told that Chudan is the most versatile posture, and it is worth a great deal of study before you move on to different kamae. I suppose there's something to be said for learning something really well before moving on, otherwise you may miss a crucial point which could become a weakness later on.

Also, I have heard that some sensei actually become slightly (or very) insulted if a junior kendoka tries Jodan on them. I have heard people say that this is because you are telling the sensei that you already know all there is to know about Chudan, and by using Jodan you're telling him to "bring it on". Beware! : )

[Hongsermeier]

I have heard people say that this is because you are telling the sensei that you already know all there is to know about Chudan, and by using Jodan you're telling him to "bring it on". Beware!


This goes for trying anything out of the ordinary. Were not supposed to try tsuki here untill at least shodan. However, we do somtimes get to practice it before that level. If you decide to use it beware. I did make that mistake. Went for a tsuki on one Sensei who had told me give me everything you've got. I was amazed at how flexable he was to avoid me. This was followed by me running for my life for the final 30 sec of our keiko.

I did learn a valuable lesson. When trying something new, by prepared for what may come back at you.:cross_eye

[KENSHIN]

Originally posted by Phlebas
From my understanding, it would be considered slightly "arrogant" to believe that you are ready to use Jodan when you are still early in your learning of Kendo.

Hence why I did not want to ask my sensei this question because I don’t want to give the impression that I think that I am ready to do Jodan, I am just curious. In actual fact I have no intentions of wanting to use Jodan, until my teacher thinks I’m ready to do so. It was just that I could never understand this whole thing with Jodan and its importance as I was never able to ask anyone about it, essentially because I was worried about giving an arrogant impression about myself. However, asking on this forum allows me to ask anything I want because no one knows who I am :D

[Hongsermeier]

However, asking on this forum allows me to ask anything I want because no one knows who I am


Part of the reason for coming here.

[KENSHIN]

Originally posted by Hongsermeier
[B
Part of the reason for coming here. [/B]


Exactly :D

[Neil Gendzwill]

Nobody has yet answered the original question - there is no rule against switching kamae in a fight. In fact, it's necessary for example if you are a jodan player and you come into tsuba-zeriai, you would be foolish to try to immediately get back into jodan, you must adopt chudan out of tsuba-zeriai and then retreat a safe distance before taking jodan. Many jodan players use hasso as a transition to jodan if the distance is too close to switch from chudan to jodan in one motion.

However if you want to switch from nito to itto then you have a problem :)

[KENSHIN]

hehe...thanks for answering that question. :D

[alexpollijr]

Another issue of assuming jodan is that you're inviting people to tsuki you. If you are a mudansha and can't receive tsuki properly, than that's a problem.

Besides everything that has been said, a mudansha in jodan must be at least a funny sight.

- Alexandre

[supernils]

As mentioned earlier it is best to focus on basics befor you start doing "stuff".
The reason, I think, for using Chudan as the basic kamae is that chudan makes it easier to understand the different types of maai.
This is slightly more difficult if you're in for example Jodan or Hasso.

[Inouye02]

Hongsermier , I know who you are ..wahahahah..

Neil, if I want to switch from Nito to Itto , i just push my shoto behind my koshiita.voila! Instant itto ..I have a little loop on the side of my hakama to hold the shoto ..hahaha

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Inouye02
Hongsermier , I know who you are ..wahahahah..

Neil, if I want to switch from Nito to Itto , i just push my shoto behind my koshiita.voila! Instant itto ..I have a little loop on the side of my hakama to hold the shoto ..hahaha
Then you get busted for an underweight shinai for itto.

[Hongsermeier]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill

Then you get busted for an underweight shinai for itto.

Not to mention it will be about 2 inches shorter. Anytime you'd like to try fighting that way I'd gladly give you the weight advantage for the reach advantage. :cross_eye

[M.K. Kawai]

With Inouye's "Flying Shinai Waza" you'll just have to deal with his Shoto. :D

MKK

[J. Schitt]

Originally posted by KENSHIN
But why is that? what is so special about the use of Jodan?

What grade are you?

Can you recieve and deal with the consequences of a real tsuki thrust?

You go into jodan - I do tsuki. Immediately.

That is my logical target, on a jodan player.

Signed:
Jack Schitt

[Inouye02]

not if my daito is a 39 to begin with , or i use the the nakauchi sensei drying pole shinai...