Does such a thing as Musha Shugyo still exist in kendo?

[KENSHIN]

I was watching the movie “Musashi” and it got me thinking about his quest to further understand what it is meant to be a better swordsman, a better human being etc. Anyway, I also read somewhere that some people actually still practice this in some way (but I am not too sure if it is kendo or other Japanese fencing sports like kenjutsu or something). Then I began to question this type of act of challenging another for the betterment of yourself. From what I have read and to generally sum it up, it seems that Shugyo is something that can help the individual to improve their technical skills, improve their personal character and also to help them at a spiritual level. Improving ones skills I can understand, although I am a bit iffy about the spiritual part and agree in some respects about improving ones personal character. Anyway, I was also thinking that this whole act can also be seen as one big ego trip? A quest of a vainglory fulfilment? If that is the case does that not contradict the whole philosophical principles behind it? Anyway, what are your thoughts about this and are there people that still practice this kind of thing have you ever experienced such a thing?

[Hyaku]

Hello there,

I suppose you could say that's what I am still doing. I traveled half way round the world to do it and I still travel around 400 km a week in the pursuit of the challenge. Funny thing is my Musashugyo is within his Ryu and reading what he wrote he advises it anyway. So I have sort of come full circle.

I can't see anything egotistical about it. What attracted me towards the sword arts was the fact that the macho image was not so self evident compared with Karate/Jujitsu.

Perhaps a little selfish? I gave up my home and country twenty one years ago in pursuit of some crazy sword ideology.

When I arrived I must admit I was probably under the illusion that I was entering into some wonderful world and that the people in it had attained some higher plain through severe self disciplined practice.

Now I have enough dan grades and shogo certificates to wallpaper with but I only frame a few that I am very proud of. I suppose I could posture about my achievements but to be honest people in general do not have the slightest interest. My self satisfaction is very personal in spending lots of time going to the dojo on my own and shutting the door.

I meet some very nice people and its way of life I like it. Nice doing Kobudo as we identify each other as members and not how many Dan grades you have.

Is it spiritual? Mmmm. I have learned and am learning a lot from a few very learned teachers. But what I have learned is that the sword world had its wierdos the same as anywhere else and I have rubbed quite a few of my list in the past.

It is vain? I have one of those big demos to do in front of hundreds next Sunday and I don't particularly relish it. I will go into the area, blot them all out with a bit of creative visualization on my opponent. Take a bow, do a quick change and escape back to my home asap.

I got my Divemasters certificate through the post this week and am "well" pleased with that. Having to rescue someone a few times is indelibly etched in my memory more than winning few taikai, TV or a national demonstration.

As Iwata Norikazu Sensei wrote on the fan he gave. "Love your way" If you dont, move on.

Hyaku

[megumisita]

Hey Hyaku,

If are willing to go the distance for a challenge then you should hop over to my dojo in Ohio. From previous posts I gather that you practice or have practiced some form kenjutsu. It would be nice to meet other kenjutsu kendoka since we rarely get any. I personally have never seen our Kogen Itto Ryu used against another kenjutsu practicioner but thats just me. Oh and don't mistake that first sentence as a personal challenge from me. I'm nowhere near skilled enough but I think it would be good learning experience for the higher members of my dojo and you as well.:) I guarentee that at the very least it will be a challenge.


Nice doing Kobudo as we identify each other as members and not how many Dan grades you have

This is true.

[mingshi]

Surely Hyaku's personal journey is impressive :cool: I was about to start a topic on "how far will you travel (weekly)?" and now I have nothing left to say.

Just that Musha Shugyo is very $$ and time-consuming in the modern world. Not many of us have that level of devotion. But whenever I think I am "Budoi crazy", I always manage to find "crazier cases" to comfort myself. Afterall, there is no such thing as "too much training". You'll just never have enough.

Kenshin-san, if you are as free as me, there is nothing preventing you from traveling to other dojo within London. There are enough dojo in town for people to practice 7 days a week. Though what bother me is the amount of time spend getting stuck in the traffic... sometime it's double or triple the amount of time I can spend in the dojo.

If you see me around, please say hello. :)

P.S. No, we are not talking about walking into other people's dojo, smack everyone down and take their door plate!! :p

[KENSHIN]

Hello Mr Hayako,

I have to say I am impressed that you still do it. Can I ask, what is the greatest thing you have learnt from your experience of doing shugyo and what can you share with us for those that might one day wish to pursue such a thing?

Hi Mingshi,

Don’t worry, I sure will say hello. In fact I have already met you a few times, and have actually practiced with ya too, but you probably won’t know who I am because I am still a of the cockroach variety. :D

[Hyaku]

Not so much a learning as a realization that if you do anything long enough and hard enough in life you eventualy reach a reasonable level. Its the challenge to better myself that fuels me on.

"Dont put off until tomorrow what you can do today" also comes to mind. Thats what put me on the plane first of all. But this English proverb seems to fit in with Japanese ideology. Musashi said live every day as if there is a fire burning in your hair. I dont have much of that but its the thought that counts. Your whole life is shugyo. But how far do you want to take it? Or as Mingshi says can you even afford the lifestyle change. Perhaps I am one of the more crazy ones. I went from collecting rents from my properties in the UK to living in a small two roomed apato in Japan. But even then I could see the potential of making a good life out here with lots of time to practice. Then there is the visa! When I came it was an unspecified Visa. Later my shugyo got me residential status. Now its not so easy.


megumisita

I don't actually go around challenging people! I meet people, I get invited. The days are gone when one had to fight someone to get into another dojo although I have in the past had to do a practical test to see if I was good enough to join.

I represent the Hyoho Niten Ichiryu (Musashi's Kenjutsu). Sadly we have no immediate plans to visit the U.S. and a forcoming visit to Canada is laid off for now because of the SARS scare

Regards Hyaku

http://sword.shorturl.com

[Raiza]

Originally posted by Hyaku
I represent the Hyoho Niten Ichiryu (Musashi's Kenjutsu). Sadly we have no immediate plans to visit the U.S. and a forcoming visit to Canada is laid off for now because of the SARS scare

Hyaku, SARS (at the moment!) is confined to the greater Toronto area. Canada is a pretty big country. Vancouver which is roughly 6000 kilometres from Toronto which happens to be approximately the same distance from Tokyo to Hawaii. Indeed there's a scare going on, unfortunately. Everybody wishes both the virus and the global paranoia would just go away.

I'd certainly like to meet you when you decide to come out though so please drop me a line when you do.

The most current Canadian update on the SARS situation is here
http://hc-sc.gc.ca/english/protection/warnings/sars/update77.html
And the general page regarding SARS is here. This page is where all the Canadian government's information on SARS is.
http://hc-sc.gc.ca/english/protection/warnings/sars/index.html

[kancho]

SARS is in the news way to often, I am sure there are alot more diseases which are fairly common that does more damage. Unless you visit a health facility, the chance of getting it is next to nothing. It affects older peopl and people who has an illness more severly than a young healthy person. That is like any other illness. I live in Toronto and don't really care about cancelled concerts but would really like to see kendo or iaido seminars.

[Hyaku]

Hello Raiza and Kancho (Enema?)

Yes I log on to W.H.O every day and other pages connected with SARS info.

The plan is to go to Guelph so we have to use Toronto airport.

Problem is the Kita Kyushu government put out an statement telling people not to go. Even travel agents here in Japan have a risk list of places not to go and ranks them on a scale of one to five. They take the countries as a whole with no consideration that there may be just trouble spots with regards to health or violence.

In comparison with SARS there are far more people dying from Malaria in Africa every day.

Rest assured we will be over as soon as they "let us".

Hyaku

[megumisita]

Hyaku, from reading your website and seeing Iwata Sensei's interview, he reminds me alot of my own sensei. Its kind of weird actually. Maybe all senseis 70 and older hold similar philosophies? Is he the one who gave you the fan?

I didn't expect you to go challenging people randomly.:p

However, if you ever do stop in my corner of the world, you are more than welcome to come visit us.

[chidokan]

Iwata sensei isnt coming to the UK this year because of this SARS thing, and we dont even have a problem with it! Apparently its because they have to fly over China (albeit at 20,000 feet...)
I'm going to miss him and cant afford to go over this year, maybe next will have to do...
I have the same 'love your way' from him on a regular scroll, my favourite though is the 'be a devil to your students and they will love you for it' one ( rough translation)... it reflects the way he teaches quite well, however seems to miss out on his rather wicked sense of humour. The best one he gave me though is 6 feet long with all the MJER waza on... at that point I realised I'd only covered half the techniques for tachi uchi no kurai!

I will now start my rant about 'the youth of today' In my day I had to travel once a month to Brighton ( 6hours) for training, local dojo was half an hour away ( every night) and when I started iaido I went to Derby ( 3-4 hours by train)... can I get people to travel to seminars? Its ALWAYS the same old faces, it seems there are a dedicated few and the rest just turn up when they feel like it...take it the other oldies have the same problem?

Hyaku, did you manage to get the monk started you were talking about last time I was over? More to the point have you done as you've been told and started a dojo yet!

Tim Hamilton

[Hyaku]

Originally posted by chidokan
Hyaku, did you manage to get the monk started you were talking about last time I was over? More to the point have you done as you've been told and started a dojo yet!

Tim Hamilton

Yes Tim. He does ok but he has so much temple work to do and a bedridden father to look after.

I started teaching HNIR at work last year to a small group. Also Kageryu Shihan retired two weeks ago so the balls in my court now.

Cheers Colin