women hachidan?

[mark]

Sorry girls, I did not know were to post this one.

I was recently talking to a fellow kenshi who mentioned that she did not think there were very many women who were nanadan, and no women had even been granted hachidan. Is this true?

[Lone Kitten]

first off, yep, this is the right place to post this... that's what this forum is for!

I distantly remember my sensei saying that there had never been any women hachidan (something i'm sure all of us aspire to), which is interesting. I would have thought there would be some, seeing as its scientifically proven that women live longer than men anyway, it's a good point, does anyone know of any?

[rottunpunk]

hachidan in kendo i know not.
but in mjer theres mrs yabe sensei. and she rocks.
:p

[mingshi]

I distantly remember my sensei saying that there had never been any women hachidan (something i'm sure all of us aspire to), which is interesting. I would have thought there would be some, seeing as its scientifically proven that women live longer than men anyway, it's a good point, does anyone know of any?
Judging on pre/post-war education available for women in Japan, it's not too difficult to understand why women cannot achieve the highest rank as fast as men could in the older generation.

Kendo is pretty male dominated. According to AJKF, only 28% of the registered kendo population in Japan is female. A few years ago I was told there's only 30 or so female nanadan. If hachidan pass rate is 1% then you'll expect only 1 out of 1000 female would be able to make hachidan.

[nikozamo]

i think the problem is in the other hachidans (males) because the ``male domination`` in kendo... i think they just dont want a woman hachidan... and can be the same for :``gaijin hachidan``??? at last the examinators habe the last word. so in conclusion, maybe in the future (early or not) the womans and gaijins will can be hachidan (this is a little resume of a conversation with a friend)

[Newbie]

We had a female nanadan visit our dojo earlier this year and our sensei told us outright that no women had made hachidan but a few were going to go for it.

Good luck to them! Yay! :D

[mark]

We had a female nanadan visit our dojo earlier this year and our sensei told us outright that no women had made hachidan but a few were going to go for it.
Good luck to them! Yay! :D

I suspect that most if not all women nanadan that are allowed to test, do so on a regular basis. I wonder if they end up testing with the men or if they are paired with other women when possible?

[Andy_Watson]

Sorry if this is just referring to kendo but I know of one or two female jodoka who will be up for 8th dan in the next few years and given their history I would say it is quite likely they will get it.

[tgsfg]

There is no non-Japanese hachidans? Not even Korean or Chinese?

[neko]

i have also heard there are no woman hachidan.
but while in kyoto this may, i saw a woman try for it. i also saw a female gaijin test for her nanadan. :) for some reason i want to say she was from france.

[Karaken]

There is no non-Japanese hachidans? Not even Korean or Chinese?

There are plenty of 8 dan in korea. They are not subject to AJKF.

[tgsfg]

There are plenty of 8 dan in korea. They are not subject to AJKF.
Are they still part of the IKF though? Is the KKA test just as hard as the AJKF? In order for them to take 8 dan test, doesn't the IKF require you to have 8 dan examiners? So I'm thinking that if there are 8 dans in other countries, the first ones would have had to take the test at Japan first no?

[Budo Angel]

Hi in Kendo there aren't any, I concur with the figures from you guys.

I was introduced a couple of years back to a Japanese 7 dan, and the hanshi (male teacher) I was with, whispered in my ear, this woman nana-dan is one of the potential candidates for GETTING the 8 dan in Kendo, because a) she was still young enough and b) consistently active in Kendo (ie. no 'career' break, kids break etc) c) just very very good.

ps. Yes I think we're all talking about AJKF.
pps. Jenny, dont' go on "typical pass rates" - when the first woman is ready, it will be momentous and it will be granted, rather than saying 1000 women would need to try, you're right about 30 ACTIVE women 7 do exist, and some of their 'cards are marked'. :rambo:

[ben]

There is no non-Japanese hachidans? Not even Korean or Chinese?

The Koreans, like the USAicans, grade their own.

Apologies for contributing to thread drift.

Back OT, I think it would be interesting to have access to a database of kendo practitioners around the world: just their name, age, grade, and nationality.

b

[Newbie]

but I know of one or two female jodoka who will be up for 8th dan in the next few years

Oh man, that rocks!

:D

[Neil Gendzwill]

A friend of mine is lucky enough to count Keiko Fukuda (http://www.judoinfo.com/fukuda.htm) as one of her sensei. Judo 9 dan, for those who haven't heard of her.

[mark]

A friend of mine is lucky enough to count Keiko Fukuda (http://www.judoinfo.com/fukuda.htm) as one of her sensei. Judo 9 dan, for those who haven't heard of her.

Is the 8th dan in judo as rare as those in kendo? Also, are non-Japanese 8th dan + also non-existent as in kendo?

[Neil Gendzwill]

I think 8 dan is less rare in Judo. We have 6 in Canada, one of them named Raymond Damblant so I'm guessing he's not Japanese. I'm not sure if they were awarded by Judo Canada or in Japan or if there is even the same controversy as there is in kendo over who awards dan. I do know they stop physically testing around godan.

They are still giving out 10th dan. Three men were given that rank at the beginning of this year, the first time so many at once. It had been 22 years since the last one and only 15 have been awarded in total.

[rottunpunk]

that ladies coool
last time i knew there were only two or three 9th dan judoka in britain, though that was some years ago.
and they were all male.
one was my teacher and he was awarded it honourifically (i.e not through fighting)
:p

[mark]

I do know they stop physically testing around godan.


Uh? How do they give higher dans? Is it a theoretical essay type thing to demonstrate their understanding of fimnner points, a new contribution the MA, an overarching contributionn, or something else? Can you skip over grades or get accellerated promotions if you do something really remarkable?

Sorry for the sidetrip, I will stop after this.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Judo Canada has the requirements here (http://www.judocanada.org/about/grading/syllabus.pdf). Seems after godan, the requirement for examination is optional at the discretion of the board, but if required it's always the same 3 sets of kata. Plus they have minimum time in grade and points accumulations, which really are just metrics for contributions to judo.

I note they call 7th dan "shichidan" which seems really weird to me.

[rottunpunk]

mr petherbridges was from outstanding contribution.
thats all i know im afraid.
i stopped after getting to brown belt in the junior grades and crossing over to nikyu due to lack of people to fight in the north. there simply werent enough females in my grade group to fight. and if there were they were all huge.
that and iai came along :D
:p

[Kitsune]

Well, I know that there are not women hachidan in Japan cos Womwn turn into other interests when they grow up (marriage, working, babies, etc) So it's about their culture that they not get that far in kendo life.

The other thing I don't know is that we, as foreign can do the hachidan test in Japan. That would be an intersting thing to know.

[Budo Angel]

Like the first woman 8 dan, the first westerner (by that I mean not Japanese or Korean origin, no offence intended) 8 dan, will be more than just ability on the day, it will be "a card that is marked", and someone young enough to try more than once, and importantly young enough to get "old" into the hachi dan role... that's what I heard...issue is who will that westerner be...? Interesting on both counts (Japanese woman & Western man)

[sainueng]

The other thing I don't know is that we, as foreign can do the hachidan test in Japan. That would be an intersting thing to know.

There has been at least 2 people outside of Japan who passed the hachidan test in Japan. They may both be of Japanese decent though. I know Takagawa sensei of Detroit USA recently passed the test in Japan. It was pretty big news here. :) You pretty much have to be fluent in Japanese to pass the test though, from what I hear.

[Kiki]

I wonder if they end up testing with the men or if they are paired with other women when possible?

I was lucky enough to watch some hachi dan testing in Kyoto two years ago. There were at least two women testing and the one I saw went against men.

Seems all the U.S. candidates make pilgrimages to Japan for the hachi dan testings. Don't think there would be a Hachi dan test in U.S. for a long time because so many Hanshi Hachi dan would have to be brought in from Japan. BTW I heard Tagawa sensei was "like a demon" he was so "on" the day he passed.

My friend's dojo in Chiba has a nanadan female and she will eventually be eligible for testing. She is very skilled, youthful and strong and lucky enough to have a Hachi dan sensei. I forgot their names but they had just returned from visiting dojos in Scandinavia when I meet them.

It's only a matter of time.:)

[chidokan]

I met last years all Japan ladies iai champion on my last trip...nanadan and young as well. I reckon she'll get it, but how long it will take could well be another matter, which may or may not depend on her skill. Sad but true given the attitudes from the old guys over there. There is also some 'political' appointments based on Tokyo and Kyoto for instance. If a hachidan in Kyoto dies, and there are entrants from Kyoto up for grading, even if you were a megastar from Tokyo, one of the Kyoto guys would get it over you....such is life in the grading sphere. Personally I would rather be accepted as someone who knows his stuff, grade irrelevant, than someone who has got a grade because his local hachidan died...
At that level its all irrelevant anyway. In fact thinking about it, once you hit godan I think there is a more than fair chance you will just keep going anyway! Get good enough and people know who you are as well....