Shinai Weight (long)

[srt]

Hi everyone!

I'm new to this board (though I've been lurking a while), and relatively new to kendo (coming up on my 1-year anniversary in a couple of weeks).

I have a couple of questions about shinai weight. I understand there is a minimum weight for shinai used in tournaments.

Since I started kendo I've been using a size 39 bamboo shinai. However, it always felt a bit awkward and unwieldly. Since I'm what the PC would refer to as "vertically-challenged" (maybe 5'3" on a good day), I decided to try out my wife's (she a little shorter than me and started the week after I did) size 38, and it felt much better. I asked my Sensei about it and he said I could use a size 38 if it felt better.

Well, to make a long story a little less long (it's already too late to be short), I contacted one of the (relatively) local suppliers who will be at a tournament this Sunday about a size 38 carbon fiber shinai. She said they will have them, but cautioned me that they were less than the 510 gram minimum weight. When I asked about size 38 bamboo shinai, she said they also are under regulation weight (at least I think she said that, her e-mail was a little garbled).

So I guess my questions are:

(1) Do they really weigh the shinai at tournaments? I'm not talking about national (or even regional) championships (no false expectations for this 42-year old, overweight body), but the local tourneys the other dojos in the area hold.

(2) Does anyone know of any size 38 shinai that do meet the weight restrictions?

(3) If my shinai is underweight, could I add a little lead tape or something (to the handle end), or even get a heavier tsuba, to increase the weight until it meets the requirements?

Thanks for the help.

steve

[Curtis]

Yes you may use a size 38 under the regulations. A 39 is the maximum length allowed. The problem will be finding a shinai heavy enough outside of Japan. You are not allowed to put anything on or in the shinai such as lead tape.

I would suggest you take a 39 and cut a little off each end to get what you want. You will probably want to use a 38 handle too.

Weighing of shinai varies from tournament to tournament. Some do it at local tournaments. If you are suspected of using an underweight shinai at a tournament you can be disqualified under the rules.

Hope this answers your questions.

[KATSUJIN]

i just remembered something and would like to ask ......wat is the shinai regulations for mens and womens for the wkc??

[Curtis]

You can find them here.

http://www.kendo-usa.org/reference/shinai_regs.htm

[srt]

Thanks for the response. So if I understand correctly, if I trim a little of each end of a size 39, I'll have the length of a 38, but still meet the weight requirements? I didn't think there was that much difference in weights between the various sizes. Any thoughts of why we (adult men) are allowed to use size 38, but no one makes one that meets weight regulations? Or is that one of those imponderables like why hot dogs are packaged 10 to the pack while hot dog buns are sold in packages of 8.

Thanks,

Steve

[JSchmidt]

I'd be careful with trimming off a 39 without weighing it first. At the last comp I went to, I was surprised to find that my bog-standard 39 shinai was 35 grams underweight. (Several others had similar issues).

Jakob

[Curtis]

We have a sensei here in Seattle that likes to practice with a heavy 39 cut down to a 37. Uses it to help improve maai and such.

You can get 38 heavy enough in Japan. You just don't see them elsewhere much. The whole point of cutting down a 39 is to first make sure it is heavy enough. Trouble will be you must be able to pick through a selection of shinai and weigh them. One about 450 or 460 grams may be heavy enough.

[Phlebas]

Not sure if this would help, but I thought I'd chime in here as no one else suggested this... would soaking a size 38 in oil add much weight? I've noticed that my shinai is heavier when I oil it. If you actually "marinate" the bamboo for a day or two, would it add much weight? Would it be enough? I don't have an accurate scale at my disposal or I'd experiment myself.

[Kendoka]

Originally posted by srt
Thanks for the response. So if I understand correctly, if I trim a little of each end of a size 39, I'll have the length of a 38, but still meet the weight requirements? I didn't think there was that much difference in weights between the various sizes. Any thoughts of why we (adult men) are allowed to use size 38, but no one makes one that meets weight regulations? Or is that one of those imponderables like why hot dogs are packaged 10 to the pack while hot dog buns are sold in packages of 8.

Thanks,

Steve

The rules for male and female differ. In my part of the world the shinais are weighed and also checked for safety.

Consult the chart at http://www.kendo-usa.org/reference/shinai_regs.htm for which ever you are and make your decision.

Remember that if you reduce the length of a 39 you will also lighten it as well.


Richard

[srt]

Can someone tell me how the weight of the shinai is determined? Is the minimum weight (510 grams for adult men) for the bamboo alone, or does it include the sakegawa, nakayui, tsukagawa, etc. I assume it does not include the tsuba and tsubadome, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks,

Steve

[Hai_hai]

Originally posted by srt
Can someone tell me how the weight of the shinai is determined? Is the minimum weight (510 grams for adult men) for the bamboo alone, or does it include the sakegawa, nakayui, tsukagawa, etc. I assume it does not include the tsuba and tsubadome, but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks,

Steve

As a lowly, non-bogu wearing beginner, I do not have the answer. But, I did see the answer to your question in another topic, in the Shinai section titled "Carbon shinai" in a reply posted by Neil Gendzwill.

[ben]

Minimum weight includes kawa but not tsuba/tsuba-dome.

[Neil Gendzwill]

What Ben said - everything but the tsuba and tsuba-dome. If your club goes to lots of tournaments, a digital kitchen scale might be a good investment. We used one to check shinai weights before we went to nationals last summer.

[Hyaku]

Lol I use A nice 650 called a Sei Un made in Kagoshima. Thick as a babies arm it stays floating in the centre and is rather difficult to get out the way.

I used to use a purpose built 4 Shaku for a while. Same length as a naginata. very unwieldly but good for kote and tsuki. If people got inside the maai you lost it. It was the length that Oishi Susumu of the Tachibana han used before shinai length and size was standardized

Hyaku

[tanueirin]

I was given a couple of fantastic women's 38 Japanese shinai as a gift. Took them to a comp last weekend and they were both underweight! One was 436 and the other was 424g. Luckily I had my old clunker (480g) in the car.

Has anyone here succeeded in getting underweight shinais up to standard? Let me rephrase that - has anyone here succeeded in getting underweight shinais up to standard LEGALLY and WITHIN REASON? More oil? Getting a thicker tsuka?

Thanks,
Angie

[Emchen]

[QUOTE=tanueirin]I was given a couple of fantastic women's 38 Japanese shinai as a gift. Took them to a comp last weekend and they were both underweight! One was 436 and the other was 424g. Luckily I had my old clunker (480g) in the car.

Has anyone here succeeded in getting underweight shinais up to standard? Let me rephrase that - has anyone here succeeded in getting underweight shinais up to standard LEGALLY and WITHIN REASON? More oil? Getting a thicker tsuka?

Dear Angie,

Standard measures for making a light shinai heavier at competitions in my part of the world include soaking the bamboo in oil (but you have to do it days before the competitions- linen seed oil is good for this purpose, if you don't have specially made shinai oil), soaking the bamboo staves in water (or wrap them in a wet towel) the night before and just before the weighing soaking the tsukagawa in water (although that almost qualifies as cheating... I would much more recommend getting a heavy enough shinai to start with for competitions)

But you can't really improve your shinai that much by just soaking it. With this you can maybe add from 10g to 30g to the weight. Beware of japanese womens shinai given to you as presents. I've noticed that the college and university girls sometimes train with very light shinais - much too light for competitions. Maybe that's what makes them so fast.... :)