Training kiai

[StylophonePet]

I know there have been extensive threads about kiai,
but I couldn't really find an answer to my question
What kind of exercises are used to train your kiai?
The other members of my club have this really scary kiai that holds a middle between a monkey-& bird squeell, 10 times more powerfull sounding than my yibbery "men" kiai
Any pointers?

[KATSUJIN]

hmm...training kiai is to first open your mouth and scream....as u get used to it....u will very soon be able to kiai with just air and protect ur voice box.....

[ben]

Try doing 500 or 1000 suburi. Pain and fatigue will give your kiai a new dimension as you use it to fight to the end. It's a kind of a breakthrough, in that once you get it you never forget it. That ability to yell like a banshee will always be with you.

Alternatively you can just wait. Regular training in drills like uchikomigeiko and kakarigeiko will help your kiai. Most people just don't know when they start kendo, how loud they can really be.

As someone who teaches one-off workshops to corporate groups, I see a lot of first-timers grappling with kiai in a multitude of different ways. For many adults it is incredibly confronting and scary.

:)

b

[Charlie]

Good question, and one I think about a lot myself. There are many opportunities for kiai practice as Ben said, from warm-up suburi to kirikaeshi to kihon and kakarigeiko. Often, you won't get any formal instruction on how to do kiai, just reminders to do it from the diaphragm. This is pretty much most of the work, keeping it down from the upper lungs and coming from the diaphragm. So I for one try to just constantly remind myself to localize the breath as I do my normal practice routine.

I also try various kiai when I'm alone, like in the car on the highway or something, playing with noises that I like, that help me hold the breath.

BTW, I once saw a video by some teachers of Penjack Silat, the Indonesian fighting art. One of the gurus said he went to a special teacher deep in the jungle to work on nothing but yells, mostly imitating animals. Then he let one out, and I'll be damned if it didn't sound just like a tiger, a pissed-off tiger. Wow.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Stand with your feet shoulder width (not kendo stance). Raise your shinai up so that it is 30-45 degrees off vertical pointing back (jodan position) and at the same time rise up onto the balls of your feet. Then cut down into gedan and at the same time drop your body so your thighs are nearly parallel to the floor. When you raise, open up your chest. When you cut, make it big and round, like you are throwing your shinai away. Keep your back straight and vertical through the entire exercise.

As you raise, breathe in so that your breath and your motion all stop at once. As you cut, breathe out and kiai "eh" (this is a Canadian exercise, after all). Don't let all your air out, try to let only enough out to make the sound. Stop the sound, the breath out and the motion all at once.

The combination of breathing and motion make it easy to make a correct, loud kiai. I don't know what the Japanese name for this drill is, my sensei just calls it "kiai exercise".

[Sisso KavanhaK]

StylophonePet ! Goo one!

I had a lot good experiences with kiai when i was a Taekwondo kenshi, in that time, i wasnt abe to strike a kick without kiai, so i used kiai to help on my muscle explosion, you can see this on boxe stuff, they allways make sounds when punch.
When i start Kendo, that was may first challenge, ´cause my kiai was lower and was no words ( like Doooooo Meeeeen Koteeeeee)
Once that a realised that Kiai on Kendo has a lot to do with posture, i stopped to scream and started to " Sing a Waza ".
On Keiko, my attitude on kiai is more like " say to the judge where i striked " this act has a lot more KI KEN TAI than Kiai only.
On Shiai, i use all my concentration, and sometimes i give a kiai that i never had listen!!!

The tips that helped me, was:

1- Posture
2- a LOT of concentration
3- Pacience
4- Abdominal contration
5- Care with your vocals, dont push too much! only let the air flows.

i hope i can helped !
sorry my poor english!

[Flashman]

I also try various kiai when I'm alone, like in the car on the highway or something, playing with noises that I like, that help me hold the breath

Paracticing kiai in the car is no wierder than the common Idaho habit of practicing your duck or goose call in the truck on the way to work.

[Charlie]

Good one, Neil!

Sisso, good points.

[Sisso KavanhaK]

Originally posted by Charlie
I also try various kiai when I'm alone, like in the car on the highway or something, ...


If i pratice kiai on driving, maybe i will have some bad experience on braking hard or punchung the drive!!


Kiai for me it´s allways connected with some body moviment!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

( that´s not a general rule. )

[KhawMengLee]

Yup...crank up Motley Crue's "Kickstart my Heart" slam on the gas and scream out the speed demon kia "WOoooooooaH! YEeeeeaaaaAAAH! Kickstart my heart don't ever stop!"

[Hongsermeier]

I've tried practicing my kiai in the car. Never comes out right. I kinda have to warm up for it. Start during warm ups. Continues through kirikashi(spelling?), men, kote-men, kote-do. When I get to kakarikeiko(damn japanese words) I'm ok. About 30-45 min. :cross_eye

[StylophonePet]

Thanks all for those very good pointers and the swift replies everyone
Greatly appreciated

[dorkusxmaximus]

it's a good thing the most quietest are usually the most loudest when they kiai ^_^.

[JSchmidt]

Take singing lessons:D (I'm only half joking).
Trying to just scream your head of, wont necesarily create a loud kiai...often it'll just close the throat up and distort it.
Instead straighten the neck and push up the air, almost as you are trying to push it out through your nose. This will open up the vocal cords and throat, creating a louder sound and will take far less energy.
At the comp/seminar in Canberra a couple of weeks back, the guy leading the warm-up actually included a voice-warm-up exercise, where we during stretching would count the usual ichi-ni-san-etc, but would do it almost singing, up and down the scale and it was (for me anyway) quite effective.

Jakob

[burger boy]

Hi everyone,
Great question and replies. Reminds me of the good ol' days of the forum when I first began.

Meng, excellent choice of tune-age for practicing kiai in the car. It's a great place to practice. Trying things out at home just pisses off my wife and cats so that's usually where I end up.

I love the Crue, but I usually crank up Van Halen and try to match the pitch and duration of Michael Anthony's high background vocals. It has done wonders for my kiai!

Take it easy everyone...

burger boy

[Paburo]

my japanese sensei told me kiai is not only yelling your lungs out loud like a cherokee on fire. kiai literally means, gathering 'ki'(energy/spirit). in 'metaphysical' terms it means gathering all your vital energy and focusing it in one point/action. in technical terms it involves good posture, correct breathing and use of the eyes.

another sensei told me the old koan of the master who killed a bird with a kiai shout/blast.

but then after a while revived it with another kiai shout/blast.

of course is just a koan, but as weird as it sounds, since then, outside the dojo i practice kiai with animals. i started scaring small stray cats unsuccesfully until i succeeded, then moved on with bigger animals like dogs and cows. scaring a cow takes a lot energy gathering!! :D :D

i have yet to scare a giant bear or a gorila. i shall try when i pass my sandan test. :D

[Hyaku]

Perhaps takes even longer to scare a human being?

I find Kakari-geiko is best. Withoubt a doubt its the kiai that goes out before the arms and legs if you do it right. It may sound like a strangled animal but like that last cut you manage to do is the last Kiai that counts the most. It really came home to me that if you have one more kiai left in you, there is one more cut you can do.

The ony Kiai that has upset me up to now was at a practice in the Jigenryu Heihosho in Kagoshima.

Hyaku

[Hongsermeier]

Hyaku...My wife grew up in Kagoshima and played on their kendo team in highschool. Be careful practicing down there. :cross_eye

[Charlie]

Jigen ryu he's practicing with. Isn't that a koryu that is characterized by running balls-out up to your opponent and cutting them head-to-groin?

Burger,

I hear ya, I hope the forum is coming back.

All:

I think the singing comment is dead on, actually.

[bukowski]

This is an interesting question. I am a Kenshi but I am also an actor, and vocal training is essential in both. To develop proper
kiai, you really need to remember two things-
1) The kiai as well as the breaths in Kendo do not come from your throat and chest, but from your hara. Squat-Suburi can help
to understand this.
2) Kiai needs a proper motivation, in this case, the motivation for
Kiai is motivation. While kiai operates like a war-cry to intimidate the opponent, what is does more so than anything else is act as a tool to build up your own energy.

[angryshinai]

Originally posted by Charlie

BTW, I once saw a video by some teachers of Penjack Silat, the Indonesian fighting art. One of the gurus said he went to a special teacher deep in the jungle to work on nothing but yells, mostly imitating animals. Then he let one out, and I'll be damned if it didn't sound just like a tiger, a pissed-off tiger. Wow.

That would be awesome:) get up from sonkyo straight into kamae then let one of those rip....

[LNGUYEN]

Kiai is not only about loudness but spirit too. Just like when you are angry, your voice is different. No body teach you that. When you practice Kiai, you should think about your opponent, enemy. When I was in Judo, from Kiai, you can tell who is nervous or who is confident. Kiai is your spirit.

[supernils]

If you have the possibility run a class in your Dojo and think about what you are doing to talk to a lot of people for a length of time. A full voice when you talk is quite equal to a good Kiai. You have to work with the resonance from you whole torso to get it right.

You get an instant feedback (Speak up you *#"½§!) if you do it wrong and you have to do ut right to last the whole class and to get your message through.

Do this and try to get your body to remember the feeling of that full voice.

[MACSTA]

today at training, out of the blue at the other end of the dojo, this guy let out a kiai that sounded like a wildcat's (bobcat, cougar etc) roar or something like a banshee.
wowee..:D