Shinkendo in Central California

[Barry Burtt]

We are pleased to announce a Shinkendo group has formed in Mariposa, California. The group will be led by Barry Burtt, A licensed instructor. Training is being held at the Aikido of Mariposa dojo, located in the foothills north of Fresno.

For further information contact Barry Burtt at 209-742-5300 or aikido@sti.net

[David]

>_> Does Shinkendo really count as kobudo? It's not exactely "Old".

[veritas]

>_> Does Shinkendo really count as kobudo? It's not exactely "Old".

Hello David,

Obata Sensei spent 30 years in Japan studying various koryu. Then created Shinkendo out of what he viewed the stronger points of the ryuha he studied...so allthough it's not old as far as lineage, it is in essence koryu.:wink:

http://shinkendo.com/

[pgsmith]

... so allthough it's not old as far as lineage, it is in essence koryu.
No, it's not. It is performed in a koryu fashion, but it is not a koryu.
David has a valid point. Since it is a gendai art, it should not be placed in a kobudo forum. To do so, especially since he had previously made this same post in the dojo forum, could be considered spamming.

[veritas]

[QUOTE=pgsmith]No, it's not. It is performed in a koryu fashion, but it is not a koryu.

Sorry I didn't make myself clear, your right it is gendai...but it's based on koryu. It was just my impression that it's as close as it gets for those who are not fortunate enough to attend a Koryu dojo.They are far and few between and for those not located with in a reasonable distance to a Koryu dojo it's a nice place to start. Most Koryu dojo are still in Japan I've been told.

[David]

Most Gendai Budo are based on Kobudo and Koryu, but that doesn't change the fact that they're Gendai. The same applies for Shinkendo. Even if it is "as close as it gets", it's still not Kobudo or Koryu, and should not be posted about in a forum designated for them.

[flagnuts]

I suggest that David and Pg smith read the website ( if you havent already) It has some really good info, Also I have come to learn that Kobudo is just a word that incorporates all "ancient" martial arts.

Over and out, Come on back.

[pgsmith]

Mr. Flagnuts,
I have read the web site. I have had many conversations with Nathan Scott sensei. I am meeting Jim Alvarez sensei and David Wilson sensei for dinner and beer in a few weeks. I am quite familiar with what Shinkendo is and isn't. What it is, is a good sword art with very solid foundations. Obata sensei has created a very valid and vital art, utilizing his own depth of experience in other Japanese arts. What it isn't is a koryu or kobudo. This is why I initially said that it shouldn't have been posted here. Especially given the fact that he had already made the same post in the dojo forum, which is where it should have been.

Would you rather concede the point that it probably shouldn't have been posted here, or would you rather I have a talk with some of the Shinkendo seniors about the new dojo that is spamming the discussion forums.

You pick! :)

[flagnuts]

Yeah I definately see your point pg. But do you think the spamming is coming directly from this dojo? To get even further from the thread.....

[Ignatz]

. . .But do you think the spamming is coming directly from this dojo?. . .
Right, except for the fact that the signature on the first post says it is, what evidence do you have?:confused2

[Paikea]

Right, except for the fact that the signature on the first post says it is, what evidence do you have?:confused2One more and you've got 2,000. Make it meaningful...

[Neil Gendzwill]

Yeesh you guys, do you really need to get your knickers in a knot over a legitimate group posting contact info twice?

Best of luck to you, Barry.

[flagnuts]

lol that is funny,, i see it now , what if there were an auto ban for spammers

[David]

I don't really care how many times they post about it (I didn't even know about the one that Pg mentioned). I'm just saying, they shouldn't post about a gendai bodu in a kobudo forum.

I've got nothing against Shinkendo. I actually think it's quite interesting, and if there was a dojo in the Miami area, I'd definately check it out.

[pgsmith]

Yeesh you guys, do you really need to get your knickers in a knot over a legitimate group posting contact info twice?
Nope, I have no problem with it at all. However, I do have a problem with their response to David's post. When he said that it probably shouldn't have been posted in the kobudo section, the proper response should have been "you're probably right, but the instructor is obviously excited about starting a new group and probably wanted to make sure he didn't miss anyone that might be interested." Instead, he got arguments about how it "did too" belong there.

I'm always up for a good debate, so I thought to see how they came to their conclusions. Unfortunately, the best they could come up with was "because it should". :)

[veritas]

[QUOTE=pgsmith]Nope, I have no problem with it at all. However, I do have a problem with their response to David's post.

I made the response to Davids post... and I never stated it should be there or not I said it is based on Koryu just like your dojo.I don't belong to that Dojo. Do you really need to flame him. Like Neil says sheez. Get a life, why do you have maka a threat to ruin his dojo.

[pgsmith]

Like Neil says sheez. Get a life, why do you have maka a threat to ruin his dojo.
Because you chose to make an issue of it. Although it was no big deal, David's point was perfectly valid. The attempts of others for justification was not. It is far better to allow those to whom a question is asked to answer. Chances are that they will be a lot better equipped to answer correctly.

Since this had become a non-issue, why do you feel the need to continue pursuing it? Sheez, get a life! :)

[flagnuts]

pg smith is just a forum dude, if you have judgmental issues save it for somone who gives damn,

[pgsmith]

pg smith is just a forum dude, if you have judgmental issues save it for somone who gives damn,
Ya know, I was going to respond to this, but it really makes no sense to me. I'll tell you what, If what I say bothers your little tiny life so much, then simply put me on ignore and then you won't have to read anything I write. If that's not what you wish, then how about you just stop whining! :lick:

[flagnuts]

Hey pg got nothing but love for ya

[Max C.]

I think the definition of kobudo isn't solidly fixed as much as koryu. Many aikido dojo use this term to refer to their weapon practice, and for many people kobudo seems to be ancient weapons oriented arts. Kobudo can roughly appear as "old way of war", not really the same thing as "old school". Now I am not defending this concept, but I don't think that gendai arts should be prohibited from posting on this forum, or then another one should be created. Simple logic:

If you look at the configuration of the forum there is no suitable place to post such thing until one sees: "Other Arts :Arts other than kendo". Then there is the iaido forum, wich shinkendo isn't so it' shouldn't be posted there, the jodo wich it is absolutely not, the kobudo and the naginata. Now it's not naginata, so the only place where it should be posted should be the kobudo forum, for lack of a better place. Where else could this be posted? to the lounge? Now that would only be terribly disrespectful of gendai arts wich aren't iaido, naginata or jodo.

Now I think that until a new forum emerges (not really a solution if you ask me) or that this one is renamed, it is my view that this post should remain here.

[pgsmith]

Thanks for your indepth analysis of the situation there Max C. However, it isn't up to you or me whether this post stays here. Our opinions don't matter at all. I was simply responding to those that felt that it was worth arguing about. If you'll notice, the original poster didn't think it was worth arguing about. However, in answer to your question ...
Where else could this be posted?
How about the DOJO FORUM, which is where the original poster first made this announcement. I hope his dojo opening is going well.

[Max C.]

As I said it is my opinion, I am by no way trying to force any decision on this matter and am well aware that I have no power to take such a decision, simply that the second post on this subject seemed to question the validity of talking about a gendai art on the kobudo forum by implying that shinkendo wasn't kobudo.

Now I wasn't aware of the fact that this was also posted on the dojo forum, but I still do not agree that it shouldn't be posted here, for it implies that gendai arts other than iaido, jodo and cie have no place watsoever on kendo world, at least for general discussions on them. For any Simpsons fans out there, sounds to me like a "no Homers club" ;-). That is the main problem I was adressing.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Now I wasn't aware of the fact that this was also posted on the dojo forum, but I still do not agree that it shouldn't be posted here, for it implies that gendai arts other than iaido, jodo and cie have no place watsoever on kendo world, at least for general discussions on them.Orgs like shito-ryu call their weapons work kobudo, and it probably doesn't fit neatly into the kobudo == koryu definition some people are working from here. So until the site owners see fit to add another forum (I don't have that authority) I don't have a problem with stuff like shinkendo that doesn't quite fit any box we have getting discussed here. Although, frankly, I think it probably fits in better in the kendo or iaido forums.

[flagnuts]

Thanks for your indepth analysis of the situation there Max C. However, it isn't up to you or me whether this post stays here. Our opinions don't matter at all. I was simply responding to those that felt that it was worth arguing about. If you'll notice, the original poster didn't think it was worth arguing about. However, in answer to your question ...

How about the DOJO FORUM, which is where the original poster first made this announcement. I hope his dojo opening is going well.

If you just like to argue thats on you dude,,, by the way how is that working out for ya? (sssiiiiiiggghhhhh, shakes head)

[tgsfg]

What exactly is shinkendo? Koryu are martial arts trained the way they were trained in the past right? Training as if you're preparing for actual battle (Though, even then it was mostly katas right?). Is shinkendo like that? Or is it more like Iaido?