Nidan to sandan

[Charlie]

I'll be eligible to test for sandan next year. All I think about is the basics. Anyone out there with any ideas on areas of concentration for sandan? I haven't really asked my sensei about this yet.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Ma-ai, ma-ai, ma-ai.

[Inouye02]

Sandan: Use seme and ken-sen to initiate attacks and have sharp waza. Particularly the use of oji type of waza should be incorporated in the candidates Kendo.

[GMason]

Thanks for this thread Charlie, I was thinking about starting the same thread.

What about big cuts. Should you try to keep the cuts big ?? or are they looking more for a range of different cuts.

i.e some big some small.

I always equate small cuts with Shiai and try to cut big on my gradings ???

[Charlie]

Your welcome, Gareth!

In my area (midwest U.S.) san-dan is pretty killer and lots of people have to take it a few times to pass. I really haven't given it a lot of thought and haven't even asked for permission to test yet. I think thinking about it, though, sort of helps you address your kendo, and things you should be concentrating on. This has helped.

I think I probably have a ways to go yet. I feel like I've just gotten to the point where my techniques are stronger and faster, and while I have unconsciously employed more complicated waza, haven't given a lot of thought (on court and off) to seme, oji-waza, and ma-ai.

In jigeiko I find I can regularly keep up with most san-dans, and get a few licks in. Yon-dans? Nah! Go-dan and up - forget it. :p

[GMason]

I think Sandan in the UK is similar, Sandan seems to be a bit of sticking point for quite a few people.

But the last two grading I saw in the UK the majority of people passed which is nice to see.

I started thinking about it a while back if I'm honest, but that was more with trepidation than anything else.

At the moment I am just trying to enjoy Kendo again. Before I took Nidan, I went through a period of not enjoying Kendo at all, I had to force myself to go to Kendo and practice, as I was getting very frustrated with myself and not enjoying it at all.

But I have finally got back to enjoying Kendo again and I think I am starting to improve.

I'm pretty much the same as you with the Sandans, I can keep up with them and have beaten a couple of them in our Dojo Shiai league, Yondan..... I get a bit of a beating...... Anything above that as Mr KuriKuri would say... "They lay the smack down on me" :D .

But it's fun so I can't complain.

I'm hoping to get over to Japan before my Sandan, but it's only a pipe dream at the moment.

[Charlie]

Yes, I understand.


Before I took Nidan, I went through a period of not enjoying Kendo at all, I had to force myself to go to Kendo and practice, as I was getting very frustrated with myself and not enjoying it at all.

I have begun to think this is necessary for growth in any martial art. I know there were times after kendo practice where I was, like, "Why bother? I'll never be good at this." But if you keep going and move through these periods, you get stronger. Now, like you, I feel like a bit more of a competitor and it's not so bad when I lose. I've since encountered the same kind of thing in judo, though, especially after shiai. "I can't tap/throw anybody, I suck." But you gotta move through it, I think. It seems a tempering process; like raw metal exposed to heat, broken and forged. Is this anything like your thoughts?

[Old Warrior]

Charlie:

I recognize I have no place on this thread. If I let it bother me, the fact that kids 1/3 my age best me all the time, would put me on antidepressants. But, I'm real comforatable with measuring my own progress against myself. None of the kids have limitations of movement or energy. And, they have been at it for years, not months. The point is, why set a standard you can't meet. If you work all day and try and squeeze in a few hours to train, while attempting to block out life's aggravations, why should the learning process be anything but frustrating. Be your own best friend and cut yourself a break. I'm sure you deserve it.

[Charlie]

You're right, Old Warrior, and I thank you for your contributions. It is entirely true. Did you bump up against similar feelings in your fencing career? (Surely at one time the Wise Old Warrior was a Brash Young Warrior!)

[Old Warrior]

Charlie:

I've been a practicing lawyer for 30 years. I've had about as much competition as one human can handle. And, my economic life has depended on my ability to consistenly win. Although I enjoy competitive sports activity and hate to lose at anything; for those things I do for fun/health/recreation etc., the results are not that important. When you have 3 kids to put through college and you are trying to resolve a case for a mil+, and winning means you'll have the money to send them - whether or not Mr. kurukuru "smacks me down" or not - is pretty insignificant.

[GMason]

Charlie,

That is exactly how I feel. I let it get to me far too much, I have to let go of my Ego and become more like Old Warrior. It is much more the mind set I want to be in. Where if I do badly one lesson I don't really care as it is only one lesson in my so far short Kendo life. So it shouldn't bother me and I should move on to the next practice and endeavor to do better.

Looking at it I think this is going to be the hardest thing for me to do. Far harder than some Waza I can't quite get the hang of, as I don't think I will be able to get rid of the feeling.

[Charlie]

I hear ya.

I've had my ego torn down so many times in kendo I can't count them (this could be a seperate thread) and I think in the long run it's been good for me. Some things that have torn me down include not just having an off day or getting pushed around in jigeiko but losing in shiai, losing in shai to someone I thought was inferior to me (it happens!) but also finding that I have a bad habit after years of practice that I need to correct (especially if the habit is hindering other aspects of my kendo). Or how about you meet a Japanese that hasn't picked up a shinai in ten years and his kendo is STILL better than yours. All of these things have happened to me.

I kept my nose to the grindstone and worked through them and have come out stronger. Just, one day shortly after or around attaining my nidan, I hit a kind of plateau where I actually felt good about my skill, even though I know I'm nowhere near the best or even my personal best. Now, I feel pretty damn confident and happy. When I have an off day, I shrug. When I get bested by someone I thought was "inferior," I think, "Hey, good for them." When I have a lousy shiai, I whip off my men and throw it and... just kidding. Shiai is shiai, I keep it in context. But you get what I'm saying?

I made a note of it in my budo journal. I have tried to import this knowledge into my judo, where I have started over and where I'll never be too good because kendo is #1 for me. And I'm not saying I'm in a place where I can rest on some kind of laurels, either. No laurels here! Just happy shugyo, I guess.

Anywho, thanks for letting me ramble...

So, ma-ai, ma-ai, ma-ai...

[suzume]

Back to the 3dan thing. I happen to be back to kendo practice after a 5 year vacation where my only exercise was riding my bicycle to work...

I remember after my first trip to Japan, 11 years ago, I practiced for 2 months at the Kagawa Uni dojo, including their summer gashuku. That was a level of practice I had never experienced before, when I was in France. Nonetheless, I failed 2dan 3 times after I was back to france. Worse: the more I'd try, the lower my level would be... Quite depressing I can tell you. After a few years of not practicing very much I eventually came to Japan for work.

It took me 6 months of practicing on and off with HS students to get the proper level, _plus_ the advice of their teacher. I have to say that the advice was not like a long speach or anything. Only a few words about what I was not doing properly.

I passed 2dan here, in Japan and then I totally stopped practicing.

Now, I have been here for 6 years, married with a child, and since we moved into a "friendlier" area I decided it was time to take the shinai again.

I help now with the local shonendan (the youth section) and since the teachers usually have a jigeiko at the end of the practice, I get to work with them between 10 to 15 mn about 4-5 times a week. It is only jigeiko since most of the practice is centered on helping the kids.

Anyway, to get to my point, the main teacher (who just passed 6dan after stopping kendo for about 10 years) told me that I am ok for 3dan. I can't really believe that since I know what I have done for the last 5 years. But well, if _he_ says it I have to trust him.

I don't understand what 3dan is. I have the feeling that running my bicycle helped me a big deal keeping my ashisabaki in shape but for the rest I feel like an old rusted man.

If you want to pass 3dan, work with 4dan and higher. Tell them your objective and they'll find ways to make you work so that your kendo will naturally improve in the right direction.

Even if you can't find people with such a level in your area, concentrate on doing everything (from kihon uchi to kata to jigeiko) with the same focus, especially kihon uchi.

I just met a junior hs teacher who is now trying 4dan but who improved his kendo only by teaching his kids...

Anyway, dans are just political, if the federation needs more players they'll lower the level, if they have to much they'll higher it etc. That's why ego is the first thing you have to loose when you play :)

[Charlie]

I finally got a chance to ask Tagawa-sensei about this. He said, and I paraphrase, to emphasize seme, invading, and taking the shot at the right moment, with good posture and good clean waza. I don't think one must display a mastery of seme, but certainly some attempt at using it.

[GMason]

Hi Charlie,

Just off topic a little. But thought you might be interested. We had a grading here in a coulpe of weeks ago.

I turned up with no kit at all, and was told I WAS borrowing a Hakama etc and fencing in the Sandan section of the Grading as everyone else had pulled out.

It helped me unbelievably, my Sensei was on the grading panel so I have had some excellent feed back and it will help me to prepare for Oct 2004.

So head down and lots of practice !!!

[Charlie]

Hi Charlie,

Just off topic a little. But thought you might be interested. We had a grading here in a coulpe of weeks ago.

I turned up with no kit at all, and was told I WAS borrowing a Hakama etc and fencing in the Sandan section of the Grading as everyone else had pulled out.

It helped me unbelievably, my Sensei was on the grading panel so I have had some excellent feed back and it will help me to prepare for Oct 2004.

So head down and lots of practice !!!

Sweet! So what did sensei say?

[Koori]

OT
Charlie, I thought that was you.... Had a ball last week end-- need to go back to Yoriba!!!

... "More Sukiyaki?"

-Koori-- (Hope)

[Nishi]

I watched that grading you assisited in Gareth, looked good to me :D I thought you cut nice and big, and your kendo looked spirited and "bossy"...lol! Seemed to work well. Nice Kote-nuki-men as well, but i think you saw that coming and played it up even bigger, you should have an oscar nomination for that cut.

If you have till october of next year, i think your kendo will improve naturally to a sandan eligable standard. And as someone who has the privilage to fence you from time to time, I'd say your kendo is stronger than its ever been....now you just need to avoid the pre-grading slump :laugh:

[Kent Enfield]

I wanted to give this thread a bump, purely for personal gain.

Is there anymore advice, particularly from the kodansha on the board?

[kendokamax]

isnt sandan being a bit better than nidan?

everyone passes this exam anyway...

[hyuna]

isnt sandan being a bit better than nidan?

For me, passing sandan felt like it needed a qualitative change in my kendo. When I passed nidan, I felt like I was doing almost exactly the same kind of kendo as shodan, but of a bit higher quality. To pass sandan, I felt that I not only had to show even higher quality in those things, but my form had to be more "mature" as well. For example, in shodan and nidan, nobody told me that I had to show seme, to look for (and make) real openings, not to attack too much, or anything like that. And, for sandan, I know that things like my uniform and other little things of that sort were getting looked at much harder than before.

I have come to think of sandan as being a transition between nidan and yondan. As nidan you are still a student. As yondan, you might be an instructor. As sandan, you are sitting on the head of the line and you have to set the proper example for those below you. So it is not enough to execute better technique; you have to start to demonstrate the proper way.

So I feel sandan is more than being just a little better than nidan.

I don't know if these are actual judging points or anything like that, but I found thinking of it in this way helped me pass 3-dan.

[tango]

I think this is a good post from hyuna.
That's an interesting standpoint and in reflecting on it, I tend to agree.

After the testing I passed for nidan, one of the panel judges came up and told me I needed to demonstrate more seme... certainly more if I wanted to pass sandan. Well.. I worked on that (a little bit) but honestly, my seme was crap at the time I tested nidan and crap the first time I failed sandan. I didn't have a "decent" sense of seme until the second time I tested (and passed) sandan, and frankly, my understanding of seme is now heads and shoulders above what I thought it was supposed to be a year ago.

Being able to practice with yondans+ would certainly help, if you have access regularly to those players. It's not impossible to pass if you don't have such access (I didn't have access). Maeda-sensei (SEUSKF) passed nanadan a couple years ago and I don't think he had really regular access to anyone above sandan.

But I digress..

Demonstrating seme is really important for sandan, IMO. If you maybe don't understand it fully, that might be ok, but I suspect you maybe have to demonstrate that you're at least getting to the point (or working towards it) of understanding it better and putting it to effective use.

As for oji-waza, I've seen people pass sandan without ever having used any oji-waza, BUT, these were people who had an incredibly good sense of ma-ai, proper seme and timing, combined with really proper posture and form. (And in retrospect, when that would happen, only THAT person would pass at that particular exam... I think it's because they pretty much made the others look like idiots with weak kendo..).

In preparing for sandan, if you have weak seme or a weak sense of what seme is and how it's used, then you really need to concentrate on it in practice -- especially with those (just) below your rank because, in my experience, they tend to react easily to simple seme. Over time, you get a better sense of it. When it comes time for the test, use this developed seme and see what the opponent does... if he doesn't move, then harai men... or harai kote men... if he starts to move, debana men... or debana kote. If the ma-ai is right and he attacks men way too early, then he sets himself up for suriage men...or even nuki men. ... just examples without getting into minor details.. Seme can set up suriage waza as easily as it can set up debana waza... just have to be careful with ma-ai. I've tried to "set up" kote nuki men and had my kote blasted by a speedy opponent.

I think you just let your seme do all the work... effective seme should create opportunities that should allow you to demonstrate what you need to in order to successfully pass sandan. But, certainly, do not forget ma-ai... if you're too close once or twice but are otherwise able to create situations that allow you to score proper datotsu, then it'll probably be ok. But if you consistently do not have proper ma-ai, then I think you're setting yourself up to fail. The lack of proper ma-ai may (unfortunately) outshine all the positives you were able to demonstrate during the test.

My unworthy 2 cents.

[JSchmidt]

I look at the sandan grading being a combination of everything you've been taught so far. Previous grades are mostly technical, but with sandan, you have to show a bit of everything, plus the beginnings of seme.
You are not required to do any specific techniques, but have to show good kikentai, proper kamae, decent distance and decent control of both yourself and the opponent.

Jakob

[Neil Gendzwill]

For sandan they are looking at a better understanding of maai and of opportunities. The candidates should understand when there is a chance and show they can take advantage of it. They shouldn't be attacking when there is no chance. They should be using maai to their advantage. Sandan is the rank where we expect that the candidates should know and be able to use all of the main waza, although of course they may not have a chance to demonstrate all of it. Still they should show some variety in what they do.

Most of the stuff about seme that Tango mentions is more towards the yondan exam I feel.

[hobbit]

I think Sandan in the UK is similar, Sandan seems to be a bit of sticking point for quite a few people.

But the last two grading I saw in the UK the majority of people passed which is nice to see.


You must've missed the grading at Mumeshi in October . . . Sandan passed = 0

[hyuna]

Most of the stuff about seme that Tango mentions is more towards the yondan exam I feel.
I am working on passing 4-dan now, and seme does seem to be MUCH more important for 4-dan vs. 3-dan...

[tango]

Most of the stuff about seme that Tango mentions is more towards the yondan exam I feel.

Wow.. that actually makes me very happy to hear you say that Neil.. maybe i'm starting to figure something out without realizing it...

[Neil Gendzwill]

Wow.. that actually makes me very happy to hear you say that Neil.. maybe i'm starting to figure something out without realizing it...
I think you are, you're certainly headed in the right direction with your thoughts. The way it was explained to me, at yondan you must demonstrate "managing" your opponent, which I take to mean controlling the outcome through seme rather than simply seizing opportunities.

[Inouye02]

I look at the sandan grading being a combination of everything you've been taught so far. Previous grades are mostly technical, but with sandan, you have to show a bit of everything, plus the beginnings of seme.
You are not required to do any specific techniques, but have to show good kikentai, proper kamae, decent distance and decent control of both yourself and the opponent.

JakobHey Jakob, Merry Christmas to you buddy, Hope all is well, When ever your here come and visit again, Pastrami and beer is still on the menu..Have a Happy New Years too.

[JSchmidt]

Hey Jakob, Merry Christmas to you buddy, Hope all is well, When ever your here come and visit again, Pastrami and beer is still on the menu..Have a Happy New Years too.

Thanks Jamie, same to you.

Jakob

[h2o]

You are not required to do any specific techniques...I thought that you had to show sandan-waza to pass sandan? (And nidan-waza for nidan.) That's the impression I got when my sensei graded sandan a month ago anyway...

[Neil Gendzwill]

I thought that you had to show sandan-waza to pass sandan? (And nidan-waza for nidan.) That's the impression I got when my sensei graded sandan a month ago anyway...
No. You're mixing up terms. "sandan waza" means three-step waza, like kote-men-doh. It's not "third level" but rather "three steps" in this case. You can pass sandan without showing this. At nidan the judges like to see combinations but it's not strictly necessary if you show them other things that prove you're at the right level.

[samurai999]

Since we are on the subject of 3dan shinsa? I wanted to kinda blurt out a question for kata.

1.) When you put your bokutou down for a test (shotou and daitou), do you:

a.) kneel down on the knee that is farthest from the judges table? (so if the judges table is on the right side of you, you kneel down on your left)

b.) Put both your bokuto on the side of your body which is kneeled. (ie, taking the previous example, you put your bokutou down on your left) I tried putting the bokutou on my right hand side, but i almost fell over doing it since my arms couldn't reach the ground.

Tim

[h2o]

No. You're mixing up terms. "sandan waza" means three-step waza, like kote-men-doh. It's not "third level" but rather "three steps" in this case. You can pass sandan without showing this. At nidan the judges like to see combinations but it's not strictly necessary if you show them other things that prove you're at the right level.
Nope, I know that sandan-waza are three-step-techniques, but I guess my post was kind of unclear :)
I know that my instructor claimed that he had to show sandan-waza for his sandan grading, and that my other instructor had to show nidan-waza for his nidan grading. That is what they told me anyway.
And I know that those who passed shodan where told to go home and begin practicing nidan-waza since that was part of the nidan test. I heard this from the examinator speaking to those who passed (I was listening as I had just passed ikkyu, and we graded at the same time, since there were only two of us).
This might be a swedish thing though, but that is also a bit strange since I understood that dan-grades are supposed to be the same everywhere...

[Neil Gendzwill]

I can't speak for the Swedish grading committee but of course you will see some variation in standards across countries. It's amazing how consistent it is when you think about it. I've met yudansha from a half-dozen different countries and sandan is more or less sandan among them. Except for this one german sandan guy who was way stronger - I think Germany is a special case, or maybe it was just him.

At any rate I have often heard that nidan is the level they expect to see combinations from you and at sandan they expect that you can perform most waza. But you can't go into an exam at that level and say "I plan to execute waza A, B and C" - it's more important to show you understand distance and opportunity, and within the restrictions of opportunity and timelimit you can opt to show a variety of waza.

[JSchmidt]

Since we are on the subject of 3dan shinsa? I wanted to kinda blurt out a question for kata.

1.) When you put your bokutou down for a test (shotou and daitou), do you:

It varies:D. Ask a senior teacher before the grading starts and adopt accordingly.
It should not be something that they should fail you on, IMO.

Jakob

[Curtis]

The following remarks were from Inoue Sensei of AJKF at the seminar we had in 1998. Nothing has changed for me as I grade people.

A person who is eligible for Sho-dan shall have learned Kendo basics and his/her skills are in a sufficient level.
A person who is eligible for 2-dan shall have acquired Kendo basics and his/her skills are in a satisfactory level.
A person who is eligible for 3-dan shall have acquired Kendo basics and applications and his/her skills are in a superior level.
A person who is eligible for 4-dan shall have fully acquired Kendo basics and applications and his/her skills are in a superior level.When I look at sandan candidates I look closely at their basics and determine if they will carry them to the next level. Do they have a sense of when to hit and correct application of waza whatever they might be, not just that they use a bunch of waza.

It all comes down to the foundation they are building for me.

[samurai999]

It should not be something that they should fail you on, IMO.

Jakob

Unfortunately that was one of the criteria...

Tim

[Halcyon]

1.) When you put your bokutou down for a test (shotou and daitou), do you:

a.) kneel down on the knee that is farthest from the judges table? (so if the judges table is on the right side of you, you kneel down on your left)

b.) Put both your bokuto on the side of your body which is kneeled. (ie, taking the previous example, you put your bokutou down on your left) I tried putting the bokutou on my right hand side, but i almost fell over doing it since my arms couldn't reach the ground.
Different sensei have differing opinions on this, but here are the rules I have been taught.

In principle, you should put your kodachi down on the side that is farthest from the shomen (which will usually also be the direction of the judges table, but not necessarily). So, if you stand with the shomen to the right, you put the kodachi down on your left, and vice versa. If the shomen is directly behind you or in front of you, you put the kodachi down on the right side.

Whichever side you put your kodachi down on, that is the knee that should touch the ground.

[Curtis]

What I have learned is that you do not show your inner thigh to the head table. Quite often in tests I have seen the candidates placed on the opposite sides of where they would normally be. The reason given for this is so the judges can have a better view of the kata.

[Inouye02]

Unfortunately that was one of the criteria...

Tim Tim was robbed,

[samurai999]

What I have learned is that you do not show your inner thigh to the head table. Quite often in tests I have seen the candidates placed on the opposite sides of where they would normally be. The reason given for this is so the judges can have a better view of the kata.


Different sensei have differing opinions on this, but here are the rules I have been taught.

In principle, you should put your kodachi down on the side that is farthest from the shomen (which will usually also be the direction of the judges table, but not necessarily). So, if you stand with the shomen to the right, you put the kodachi down on your left, and vice versa. If the shomen is directly behind you or in front of you, you put the kodachi down on the right side.

Whichever side you put your kodachi down on, that is the knee that should touch the ground.

Ok so according to this, my way was proper? But like Halcyon said, different sensei have different ways of grading.

I put my two bokutou on my left side, kneeled on my left knee and the judges table was on my right side. two judges proceeded to tell me during the debriefing that I was wrong.

The judge commenting on me said I was to ALWAYS kneel on my right knee and put my bokutou down on my right side (this was with the judges table, or shomen on my right side) . Another sensei came over and corrected him and therefore left it at that on the kneeling down part. So, I still had to put my bokutou on my right side. Isn't this a bit awkward?????

I tried putting my bokuto down on my right side with my left knee down and i almost fell over. My arms aren't long enough to put the bokutou down on that side without dropping them and that would be a serious ettiquette infraction assuming that the judges table was on my right side.. Or so I thought..

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Tim

[Fonsz]

You were robbed, have you ever done something that offended the judges? Because if this was the reason why you failed then there is something rotten in the State of wherever you live. That is judging by the evidence provided here. Your Kendo was good enough to get to the Kata part. So what have you done?:puzzled: :confused: :paranoid:

[Curtis]

Well I cannot speak for the sensei in this test, but I can tell you I would never flunk somebody for sandan for this unless the rest of the kata had problems.

I cut candidates a fair amount of slack for kata for sandan on certain parts of it as this is the first test involving all ten kata. When yondan comes I am less forgiving.

[jmarsten]

Different sensei have differing opinions on this, but here are the rules I have been taught.

In principle, you should put your kodachi down on the side that is farthest from the shomen (which will usually also be the direction of the judges table, but not necessarily). So, if you stand with the shomen to the right, you put the kodachi down on your left, and vice versa. If the shomen is directly behind you or in front of you, you put the kodachi down on the right side.

Whichever side you put your kodachi down on, that is the knee that should touch the ground.
This is also my understanding. The dojo is divided into 3 sections, the kami no ashi, shimo no ashi and kamiza. That is the head, the high side and the low side for a simplistic definition. A lot of the formalities come from shinto so you have to put them in that context to understand the whys and wherefores. One should never put the swords on the side towards the kamiza. One should not expose the inner thigh of the leg to the kamiza.
So because modern kendo only follows some of this tradition it gets some examiners confused since they never bother to do their homework in some areas.
I am confused however since to fail the kata it would have taken at least 3 examiners to give fails, so I wonder if something else was also wrong?? In any case I will not try to second guess the exam board nor venture my opinion in such a forum.

[samurai999]

Also... my partner asking how to do kata #10 before our test was kind of a bad omen...

TIm

[samurai999]

Cont'd from previous post...

He didn't let me lower my bokutou into gedan before we started #10. He immediately started in after we finished #9. Perhaps our center wandered as well since he started from the edge of the court.. I started from the edge of the court, took the normal amt of steps to get centered and figured that he wouldn't be able to reach me..... Since he was uchidachi, i had to adjust to him?

I only got 2/5, the focus of the 2 of the 3 judges that failed me was that my reiho was wrong. The remaining judge told us in the debrief that we were all doing #7 wrong. He said that we should do it the "new way" which was in two steps? I was taught right-left-knee. Whatever it was I was doing wrong, I wasn't too pleased with the results and was more confused going out of the shinsa compared to going in.

Tim

[Curtis]

Also... my partner asking how to do kata #10 before our test was kind of a bad omen...

TIm

This is a bad sign. I would ask for a new partner or just stay on track and do it the correct way no matter what they do.

[samurai999]

This is a bad sign. I would ask for a new partner or just stay on track and do it the correct way no matter what they do.

I wish I knew I could do that.... I guess the most conflicting thing in my mind at the time was that a shidachi is the person who is supposed to "adjust" to the uchidachi. So adjust I did, even though I knew he was starting off center... I guess it was just a bad circumstances and bad luck all happening at once...

Tim

[jmarsten]

Cont'd from previous post...

The remaining judge told us in the debrief that we were all doing #7 wrong. He said that we should do it the "new way" which was in two steps? I was taught right-left-knee.

Tim
Could you please elaborate a bit more on this comment? What was described as the "new way". Was this "new way" what was taught at your SCKF kata seminars? Did the head examiner tell you that you could have one do-over of one of the kata during the series?

Regarding the placement of the bokken, I have been informed by someone who just went through the seminar at Kitamoto that what Halcyon and I have stated is what was taught there by the AJKF. I have sent an inquiry to the former head of the AJKF Kata Comittee to verify in writing the correct procedure. When I have that reply I will post it here. Of course it means nothing if the examiners in SCKF have a different process. BTW you are not the first instance I have heard of were the SCKF examiners flunked someone on their kata because of the knee placement.

[Curtis]

I wish I knew I could do that.... I guess the most conflicting thing in my mind at the time was that a shidachi is the person who is supposed to "adjust" to the uchidachi. So adjust I did, even though I knew he was starting off center... I guess it was just a bad circumstances and bad luck all happening at once...

Tim

It is the uchdachi's responsibilty to maintain the center.

[samurai999]

Could you please elaborate a bit more on this comment? What was described as the "new way". Was this "new way" what was taught at your SCKF kata seminars? Did the head examiner tell you that you could have one do-over of one of the kata during the series?

Regarding the placement of the bokken, I have been informed by someone who just went through the seminar at Kitamoto that what Halcyon and I have stated is what was taught there by the AJKF. I have sent an inquiry to the former head of the AJKF Kata Comittee to verify in writing the correct procedure. When I have that reply I will post it here. Of course it means nothing if the examiners in SCKF have a different process. BTW you are not the first instance I have heard of were the SCKF examiners flunked someone on their kata because of the knee placement.

Marsten sensei, i actually took the shinsa up in the NCKF.. We were taught right-left-knee by Ota sensei when he came for his seminar. Our bokutou placement (which I saw in the SCKF seminar) was always on the side that is kneeling. So, if the judges table is on my left, then i kneel on my right knee and place my bokutou on my right. Unfortunately, it was a mix of bad luck, bad circumstances and bad kata on all counts... One of the sensei in the NCKF debrief kinda confused us by saying that we "must" do the "new way" which was a different # of steps. (2, I believe)

Ya.. The uchidachis responsible for maintaining the center, but my partner started off center so there wasn't too much I could've done on that account.... Again, it was just a really bad day...

Tim

[Fonsz]

Marsten sensei, i actually took the shinsa up in the NCKF.. We were taught right-left-knee by Ota sensei when he came for his seminar. Our bokutou placement (which I saw in the SCKF seminar) was always on the side that is kneeling. So, if the judges table is on my left, then i kneel on my right knee and place my bokutou on my right. Unfortunately, it was a mix of bad luck, bad circumstances and bad kata on all counts... One of the sensei in the NCKF debrief kinda confused us by saying that we "must" do the "new way" which was a different # of steps. (2, I believe)

Ya.. The uchidachis responsible for maintaining the center, but my partner started off center so there wasn't too much I could've done on that account.... Again, it was just a really bad day...

Tim
The evidence is getting better and the plot thickens. I will stand by my first call. You were robbed. But sometimes you have to deal with bummers and bad experiences and hopefully you'll come out stronger. I repeat your Kendo was sufficient to reach the Kata part so in my book you've already passed. But then again I'm no judge so for what it's worth.:grin:

[jmarsten]

Ota sensei confirmed that the kodachi is always placed on the shimoza side, away form the kamiza; you kneel on the knee to the shimoza side; and your body should be between the kamiza and the kodachi. One note he made, when the situation calls for the kodachi to be placed to shidachi?s left, the left hand is used to place the kodachi on the floor. Likewise, the left hand is used to pick-up the kodachi. He said that he has not seen this point (about the left hand) written anywhere, but it is the proper protocol for such situations.

[Inouye02]

Ota sensei confirmed that the kodachi is always placed on the shimoza side, away form the kamiza; you kneel on the knee to the shimoza side; and your body should be between the kamiza and the kodachi. One note he made, when the situation calls for the kodachi to be placed to shidachi?s left, the left hand is used to place the kodachi on the floor. Likewise, the left hand is used to pick-up the kodachi. He said that he has not seen this point (about the left hand) written anywhere, but it is the proper protocol for such situations. so can he get a retest ?

[samurai999]

Ota sensei confirmed that the kodachi is always placed on the shimoza side, away form the kamiza; you kneel on the knee to the shimoza side; and your body should be between the kamiza and the kodachi. One note he made, when the situation calls for the kodachi to be placed to shidachi?s left, the left hand is used to place the kodachi on the floor. Likewise, the left hand is used to pick-up the kodachi. He said that he has not seen this point (about the left hand) written anywhere, but it is the proper protocol for such situations.

Thanks for the clarification marsten sensei. This removes a lot of the confusion and perhaps will give me some confidence going into the retest.

Thanks,
Tim