waza vs everything else

[William Honda]

I cannot put into words adequately enough so for those of you who are willing to read between the lines....

I think kendo waza is let's say one quarter of Kendo and "everyting else" is three quarters of kendo. Seme, ki, honesty, integrity, ettiquette, understanding, etc. fall under everything else.

Question: How many of you out there work on everything else or is it a byproduct of kendo practice (waza).

To me the everything esle might be just as important as the waza. Put that together in one package, bring to a boil and and you have instant hachidan?

[Charlie]

Good idea for a thread.

I shall meditate upon this and respond later. (Like a guru coming down from a mountain top. Nah!)

[Hongsermeier]

I think the everything else is the reason to start kids in kendo at an early age. As they progress in everythings else they start to learn waza.
We have a 3 year old at our dojo. HE has learned men and kote men. On top of that he has learned how to address people with respect, take instruction, pay attention and various other "everything else". Nobody really cares if his footwork is right, or his strikes right, as long as he is there learning the "everything elses" that will help him out side the dojo.
I would have to say the "everything else" is learned from being at practice. You can practice waza at home alone, but the everything else requires interaction with other people. :cross_eye

[Stan]

For me it is the "everything else" that makes me love kendo. Don't get me wrong, I love to win shiai and do well in tournament but if I based my joy on the outcome of a shiai my kendo life would be up and down. Most people make New Years resolutions, I prefer to look back over the past year and think about what I have learned. Since I have started kendo most of what I have learned has been taught to me by kendo. Thanks to the kendo gods!

[William Honda]

In my mind it seems that the technical aspects of striking, footwork, etc. become less and less factors for kendo advancement. When senseis have been doing this for 60 years I do not think that how one strikes is of importance. It will be natural and accurate. More importantly what is it that separates Hachidan A from Nanadan B? What is this everything else that is so elusive? Technically one would think at that stage striking is not much different between the two.

It is quite clear that this is not formulated completely. Nor can it be conveyed to others in words. I just don’t know. But it is clear to me that it is important. Is this the true path (only to be gained through rigorous training – whether it be carpentry, artistry, kendo, accounting?)

What was it that Musashi found that caused him to stop using the sword?

[Hai_hai]

As a non-bogu, wearing, 0-kyu beginner, I would like to add an opinion.

I think there are some technical differences which separate an upper and lower dan, and I base this answer as one who has taken karate (shotokan to be more specific).

On one hand, I do see your point. What really differentiates a black belt from a white belt on a basic punch? Nothing, they both would execute it the same way. The difference between a black belt and a white belt is how they implement the punch in fighting. The black belt has more experience and wisdom regarding distance, tactics, timing, and past experiences.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I think that a higher ranked kendo player has the upper hand over a lower ranked person not on how to execute a men-uchi, but he/she has the tactics, timing, distance, strategy, and experience to win with a men-uchi because of waza. This is why waza is very important, as equally important as "everything else". This is why you cannot create an instant Noodle-Cup hachidan.

[Hai_hai]

Also, because ki-ken-tai-ichi is perfected through waza, I feel it is more than one-third of kendo.

[JSchmidt]

Good question and..I don't know..but it certainly got me thinking.

Jakob

[Winter_Wolf]

Hello,
I think the everything else is what really attracted me to kendo in the beginning, but as i've progressed, i've come to love every aspect of the kendo experience!
Thanks,
W.W.

[ben]

Originally posted by William Honda
What was it that Musashi found that caused him to stop using the sword?

Hey Honda, I thought that all the good questions had already been asked on this forum. You prove me wrong.

As to the historical and technical specifics of this question above, I know Hyaku has spoken elsewhere about insights gleaned from HNTIR.

OTOH it also makes a perfect kendo koan, i.e. when you find your *own* answer to it, you won't even need to grade for hachidan.

"Waza" and "everything else" is a good way to describe kendo. I think I started for the everything else. Luckily I started early enough that the waza came easily. The everything else has changed a over the years.

You could also substitute the word "keiko" for "waza" in this instance, in that when the everything else gets a bit over-blown it's good to come back to just "keiko".


What was the question again?

b:confused:

[samurai999]

Hai-hai.. Ki-ken-tai-ichi perfected through waza? Like what? Debana kote? Nuki-Men? Not sure what you're talking about. I thought you needed ki-ke-ta-ich (shortened to save time) to DO the waza in question. You learn that as you learn kihon. Unless you mean kihon waza such as hiki men.

To Hondas dilemma. That is what kendo is supposed to teach and ingrain into peoples minds isn't it? The "everything else". Waza is one thing. When you are young, you get to do and experience everything. Waza, reiho, etc. When you are older and your athletic limitations prevent you from doing waza, you are left with the "everything else" that kendo has taught.

My 0.02,
Tim

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Hai_hai
As a non-bogu, wearing, 0-kyu beginner, I would like to add an opinion.

Why not just listen for once?

What really differentiates a black belt from a white belt on a basic punch? Nothing, they both would execute it the same way.


What exactly was the point of all the training if someone with experience executes the waza the same way as a beginner?

I think that a higher ranked kendo player has the upper hand over a lower ranked person not on how to execute a men-uchi


8th dan people are still working on their basic men. Execution of fundamentals is absolutely different between beginners and kodansha.

[Hai_hai]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill

As a non-bogu, wearing, 0-kyu beginner, I would like to add an opinion.

Why not just listen for once?


I do.
I just like to increase the number of posts I have.

[kendo_chick]

I think that when you get to the heart of kendo, yes, everyone does waza basically the same way. I believe that the difference comes with "everything else". I believe that experience and your own frame of mind is what differentiates a higher level person to a beginner.