Rape laws

[Inner_Silence]

Sorry, I thought you said in an earlier post that you were training in Russia, my bad!

What I mean to say was youre assuming the way girls are manipulative and complaining is typical for your country, ie cultural, right? You say you include girls and encourage them etc, but you get in a very bad mood when they complain about kendo hurting. Perhaps it is cultural for you to assume that women will act this way?


As an example, we have a guy in our dojo who doesnt like tsuki. He isnt comfortable recieving it and everyone knows this. Everyone is happy to accommodate this, and noone tsuki's him during jigeiko. When he participates in tsuki drills most people take extra care not to miss. We all know he will get more comfortable in time, and he will get to the point where he can take a really strong tsuki thrust.

Like you said earlier, make sure you train with someone according to their abilities and what they personally can handle - not according to whether they are female.


of course u r right, when i say its a cultural thing i mean that its the way that people goes naturally. and of course u are so right coz its up to all of us the way our own society works, here everyone knows that something is weird, but its easyer to stay as we are than to change.

just to tell you another thing, in my country its a crime when a guy rape a woman (and of course is a really bad thing) buy according yo our laws its NOT a crime if a woman rapes a man, u can get the idea...

[目の届く限り]

just to tell you another thing, in my country its a crime when a guy rape a woman (and of course is a really bad thing) buy according yo our laws its NOT a crime if a woman rapes a man, u can get the idea...
Maybe coz that never happened... :normal:

[目の届く限り]

Rape implies violence... And violence is so masculine...

[Inner_Silence]

yeah but its the fact, it doesnt matter if it happened or not, it matters coz my law protects the girls but not the guys and thats is sexual discrimination, i think it should be equal to all sides (guys, girls or any mixture of that)
anyway, it could happen.

[Alison2805]

Rape implies violence... And violence is so masculine...


hehehe, come to my dojo, Ill show you some pretty female violence :evil:

[Inner_Silence]

hmmm ill have it in mind

[目の届く限り]

law protects the girls but not the guys and thats is sexual discrimination
It could be, but law protects everyone from suffering violence - the "rape" law is there just to increase the time the guy will be in prison for that particular "type" of violence - a crime that women happen to never commit...

[Inner_Silence]

u r sure of that? i really think that it could happen, very rare times, but it could

[目の届く限り]

hehehe, come to my dojo, Ill show you some pretty female violence :evil:
lol
Girls at my dojo are good fighters as well - we can't really make distinction between boys and girls when they're fighting... Yet they're sweet when it's over... ;)

[JByrd]

Maybe coz that never happened... :normal:

There are different forms of rape, not all of which are as difficult as pushing a marshmallow into a parking meter.

[Nochi-no-tsuki]

the "rape" law is there just to increase the time the guy will be in prison for that particular "type" of violence - a crime that women happen to never commit...

you are wrong in this assumption, it does happen, i know someone it happened to, he was passed out drunk and...well you know the rest.

[rottunpunk]

It could be, but law protects everyone from suffering violence - the "rape" law is there just to increase the time the guy will be in prison for that particular "type" of violence - a crime that women happen to never commit...
im not sure of the wording of american law
but the english rape act, now that its been amended means men can be raped.
it is rare though
and as for the type of violence. there is a set base penalty over here for rape as an offense itself. it is then increased/decreased according to aggrivating or mitigating circumstances. and theres different levels of rape too.
:p

[k.en21]

raped by women!?? Hmm... if the girl is sexy/good looking, i wouldn't mind it ONE BIT HAHAHA
:evil:

sorry to be off topic here...

[mingshi]

raped by women!?? Hmm... if the girl is sexy/good looking, i wouldn't mind it ONE BIT HAHAHA
:evil:

sorry to be off topic here...
I smell ignorant and seriously bad sense of humor...

[k.en21]

*ouch*
but still, would you mind if an incredibly delicious piece of candy is shoved into your mouth when you're full? For me, no.

all right, i'm gonna stop it right here since i can sense this is going to draw some flames...

[Paikea]

raped by women!?? Hmm... if the girl is sexy/good looking, i wouldn't mind it ONE BIT HAHAHA
:evil:And negative rep points. This isn't even remotely funny.

[Nochi-no-tsuki]

And negative rep points. This isn't even remotely funny.

hey what is a grey colored rep point? i have all these green ones, and then a grey, sorry to be off topic.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Grey means someone tried to give you a reputation point, but they didn't have enough posts for it to count. You need at least 100 to add or subtract reputation. You get another point for each 500 posts you have so (postcount/500 +1) is the number of rep points added or subtracted for any user.

[目の届く限り]

*ouch*
but still, would you mind if an incredibly delicious piece of candy is shoved into your mouth when you're full? For me, no.

all right, i'm gonna stop it right here since i can sense this is going to draw some flames...
As you guys revived the topic...
It's more likely that a man would be raped by another man, and the law should protect people from that, but again, that's not sexist because women don't even take part in.

[euclid]

As you guys revived the topic...
It's more likely that a man would be raped by another man, and the law should protect people from that, but again, that's not sexist because women don't even take part in.


Most cases of female on male rape occur while the male is sleeping or unconscious. Nothing sexist about it, rape exists for both sexes in all variations, m/m f/m f/f f/m.

[Kenzan]

Exactly:
Rape is:
1. Sexual intercourse forced on a person.
2. A very serious crime.
3. Not a joking matter or something to be taken lightly.
4. Happens to Women and Men.

[目の届く限り]

Most cases of female on male rape occur while the male is sleeping or unconscious. Nothing sexist about it, rape exists for both sexes in all variations, m/m f/m f/f f/m.
Yes, I'm sorry - sexist was told earlier to be the law aiding only girls and not boys.
This is so off-topic, Khelkhet will kill us for discussing it here, lol

[Bennosuke]

Rape implies without consent, that's it. If the woman can pull it off, then it is rape. (not implying that women are weak, just that it requires the man to... be in a certain physical state not very common when he is upset or afraid.)

[mingshi]

Rape implies without consent, that's it. If the woman can pull it off, then it is rape. (not implying that women are weak, just that it requires the man to... be in a certain physical state not very common when he is upset or afraid.)
Very true.

Stronger female/ weaker male would be the case for adults/ kids.

More reference from wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_by_gender#Rape_of_males_by_females

[tilt]

im not sure of the wording of american law
but the english rape act, now that its been amended means men can be raped.
it is rare though
and as for the type of violence. there is a set base penalty over here for rape as an offense itself. it is then increased/decreased according to aggrivating or mitigating circumstances. and theres different levels of rape too.
:p

1)There is no such "Rape Act"
2)You're are getting confused with the new Sexual Offences Act.
3)Male rape is not rare.
4)The penalty for rape upon conviction is not "increased/decreased according to aggrivating or mitigating circumstances" - it is fixed in law - that being Life Imprisonment.
5)There are not "different levels of rape".

If you don't know what you're talking about - then shut up - especially about subjects like rape.

[Anjin-san]

3. Not a joking matter or something to be taken lightly.
Unless you're raping a clown!

[euclid]

Rape implies without consent, that's it. If the woman can pull it off, then it is rape. (not implying that women are weak, just that it requires the man to... be in a certain physical state not very common when he is upset or afraid.)


I don't want to be graphic here (Neil is right in that this really has no place being here, but since it is and it is a serious issue I want to address it). Stop thinking of this as a situation that occurs through threat of violence. Do some googling of the subject and you will realize that it is very easy to end up in a situation where you could become a victim. It has nothing to do with strength.

[Washington]

I don't want to be graphic here (Neil is right in that this really has no place being here, but since it is and it is a serious issue I want to address it). Stop thinking of this as a situation that occurs through threat of violence. Do some googling of the subject and you will realize that it is very easy to end up in a situation where you could become a victim. It has nothing to do with strength.

case in point
http://www.canadiancrc.com/Paternity_Fraud.htm

About 1 in 4 sexual offenders are women. Considering that these crimes are reported far less by men than women that number is prolly closer to 1 in 3.
Domestic Violence rates are higher in households headed by women than ones headed by men.
In partner on partner violence, rates among lesbian couples are higher than that of homosexual and heterosexual couples.
Not exactly sure where this violence is a man thing came from.. it's simply not true.

[I_am_Cthulhu]

but still, would you mind if an incredibly delicious piece of candy is shoved into your mouth when you're full? For me, no.By far one of the most ignorant comments I have heard.

[Kitsune]

Rape implies violence... And violence is so masculine...


Not quite, here in Chile several years ago a case of male that was raped happened. Was weird it's true but three women tied this guy to a tree and did with him everything the had in mind and chilean law did not have anything to protect this guy for the experience. So yeah it can happend it's weird but happens

[tilt]

Not quite, here in Chile several years ago a case of male that was raped happened. Was weird it's true but three women tied this guy to a tree and did with him everything the had in mind and chilean law did not have anything to protect this guy for the experience. So yeah it can happend it's weird but happens

He was still assaulted by the three women - regardless of the sexual aspect -I would hope Chilean law can deal with that.

[kanyil]

The arty novel/movie "Book of Revelations" had a story which involved a man being abducted and then repeated raped by 3 masked women over the course of 12 days.

Didn't seem as pleasant as most people would think at first blush, especially considering there's more than 1 way a man can be raped when he's tired down..... Something involving some grease and a BIG.....ahem.

It's also interesting when the guy tries to report it to the police but couched it as "a friend of mine was abducted by 3 women..." The cop who interviewed him reacted as most men would, and said, "poor bastard". That was the end of his attempt in trying to report the crime.

[Kitsune]

He was still assaulted by the three women - regardless of the sexual aspect -I would hope Chilean law can deal with that.

I Think they treated like an attack, like he was beaten up, but not as a rape that it was for real.

[David]

I think that by US law, rape inplies more than physically forcing a person to have sex. Like someone posted earlier, the definition of rape is sexual intercourse where one of the parties has not given consent. If one party removes the other person's ability to consent via drugs or some other form of intoxication, it is still considered rape.

Though, I'm not sure how far this law extends. For instance, I don't know if a girl who willingly takes some ecstacy at a party and then hooks up with someone while under the influence can accuse the other person of raping them. Or, at a lesser extreme, a woman get's drunk at a bar, and also hooks up with someone. With both examples, I'm pretty sure their wouldn't be a case if the "victim" tried to report it, because she was willingly partaking of the substances that removed her ability to consent. (Though, that's completely speculation on my part.)

What confuses me is if someone is encouraging (not forcing) the consumption of these substances, and then has sex with the person under the influence, would that count as rape?

[gsx1100s]

Exactly:
Rape is:
1. Sexual intercourse forced on a person.
2. A very serious crime.
3. Not a joking matter or something to be taken lightly.
4. Happens to Women and Men.


Thanks for the reality check , well said.

cheers michael

[tilt]

What confuses me is if someone is encouraging (not forcing) the consumption of these substances, and then has sex with the person under the influence, would that count as rape?

The point in question is whether the consent given whilst under the influence of intoxicants (drugs/alcohol) is actually true consent. In the UK this would be for a jury to decide.

[Ignatz]

This is a typical U.S. rape statute.
A person is guilty of rape in the first degree when he or she engages
in sexual intercourse with another person:
1. By forcible compulsion; or
2. Who is incapable of consent by reason of being physically helpless;
or
3. Who is less than eleven years old; or
4. Who is less than thirteen years old and the actor is eighteen years
old or more.

With regard to #2, you see there is nothing there about how the victim became incapable of consent.
Each and every element of this is a question of fact for the jury to decide.

Oh yeah, sexual intercourse is also defined and incapacity to consent covers many circumstances. For instance, if the victim is a prisoner and the actor is a prison guard, there can be no consent.

Rape is a crime of violence rather than a "sex" crime. It is about domination. On the other hand there are many instances where "rape" was actually "buyers remorse".

[euclid]

I think that by US law, rape inplies more than physically forcing a person to have sex. Like someone posted earlier, the definition of rape is sexual intercourse where one of the parties has not given consent. If one party removes the other person's ability to consent via drugs or some other form of intoxication, it is still considered rape.

Though, I'm not sure how far this law extends. For instance, I don't know if a girl who willingly takes some ecstacy at a party and then hooks up with someone while under the influence can accuse the other person of raping them. Or, at a lesser extreme, a woman get's drunk at a bar, and also hooks up with someone. With both examples, I'm pretty sure their wouldn't be a case if the "victim" tried to report it, because she was willingly partaking of the substances that removed her ability to consent. (Though, that's completely speculation on my part.)

What confuses me is if someone is encouraging (not forcing) the consumption of these substances, and then has sex with the person under the influence, would that count as rape?


So if I get drunk, that means someone can sexually assault me and it's my fault?

I don't follow.

[Ignatz]

So if I get drunk, that means someone can sexually assault me and it's my fault?

I don't follow.
Both of you should read my post. If incapacitation is the basis for lack of consent the manner in which the person became incapacitated is not an issue. However, whether the person was incapacitated is an issue and needs to be proven to the satisfaction of the jury (beyond a reasonable doubt in the U.S.)

So, if you are unconscious, how you got that way does not matter but the government still has to prove that you were. That may only be your testimony and if the jury accepts that they return with a guilty verdict.

[Fonsz]

Oh yeah, sexual intercourse is also defined and incapacity to consent covers many circumstances. For instance, if the victim is a prisoner and the actor is a prison guard, there can be no consent.

Rape is a crime of violence rather than a "sex" crime. It is about domination. On the other hand there are many instances where "rape" was actually "buyers remorse".
And what for the sake of argument if the victim is a prison guard and the actor is a prisoner? And does it matter which sex of the participants has anything to do in this unlikely case?
You are a fountain of information indeed. What was this thread all about anyway?

[目の届く限り]

Not quite, here in Chile several years ago a case of male that was raped happened. Was weird it's true but three women tied this guy to a tree and did with him everything the had in mind and chilean law did not have anything to protect this guy for the experience. So yeah it can happend it's weird but happens
I've asked a few friends of mine (girls) whether violence was something masculine, feminine or if it had nothing to do with gender; the answer was that it's surely not masculine and that a girl could be very well violent.

Well, I'm not saying that girls would never be violent or anything - my point is: I've always heard that boys are more likely to use "strength" to solve their issues while girls wouldn't at an early age.

Girls would play with dolls for hours while boys wouldn't stand 10 minutes without smacking each other...

[k.en21]

the reason why i made those obnoxious remarks is because i find it incredible that a man can be raped by a woman. I'll have to elaborate on that statement though. When I say "rape" i mean forced into having intercourse (the actual physical penetration) without clear consent given by the male while he's not drugged, intoxicated etc. In order for the actual penetration to happen i.e. rape, the male has to um, "participate" by um...you know what. So, to me, "raped by a woman" is simply ridiculous

[Anjin-san]

Rape is penetration by a foreign object. Men can be penetrated too.

[k.en21]

very true. but i mean man to woman, w/ natural body parts...no "foreign objects"

[Ignatz]

I'm afraid that you are a complete and utter lugnut. It happens.

[I_am_Cthulhu]

So, to me, "raped by a woman" is simply ridiculousYou sir, are an idiot of the highest order. Tell me you're still a child and I'll overlook your crap. If you're a developed adult then I suggest seeking help.

[kartoffelngeist]

In Scotland (not sure about down south) rape is defined as 'a man having sexual intercourse with a woman without her consent'. The use of force or violence has nothing to do with it, and it can't (as the law stands just now, whether we agree with it or not) be comitted by a woman.
It's being reviewed by the Scottish Law Comission though.

The draft criminal code for Scotland has a separate crime of 'sexual penetration'.

Like I say, could be different in the rest of the UK.

On a less legalistic level, ken21 is being a bit of a muppet...

[k.en21]

That's what i'm saying. Woman simply can't rape a man without some particiapation by the man. It's not that I don't have any sympathy for those who did somehow got raped by a female. I am merely stating my opinion here.

[Kenzan]

That's what i'm saying. Woman simply can't rape a man without some particiapation by the man. It's not that I don't have any sympathy for those who did somehow got raped by a female. I am merely stating my opinion here.

Here's where I think you are going wrong:
Juxtapose the "man" and "woman" words in your sentence.
There is biology going on with both parties as far as "participation" under normal circumstances is concerned. To be blunt, I.e., blood flow and certain fluid production.
Rape is not a normal circumstance, and is still can happen regardless for men or women, even if certain physiological conditions are not met, This is why severe genital injuries occur during the assault, and are almost always considered evidentiary for prosecution.
You might want to read up on the subject of human sexual physiology and the psychology of rape a bit.

[Ignatz]

I am merely stating my opinion here.
And the wonderful thing is that everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how stupid and uninformed that opinion is.

[k.en21]

instead of just a name-calling match, would you care to elaborate/explain why this opinion is stupid to you?

[k.en21]

Here's where I think you are going wrong:
Juxtapose the "man" and "woman" words in your sentence.
There is biology going on with both parties as far as "participation" under normal circumstances is concerned. To be blunt, I.e., blood flow and certain fluid production.
Rape is not a normal circumstance, and is still can happen regardless for men or women, even if certain physiological conditions are not met, This is why severe genital injuries occur during the assault, and are almost always considered evidentiary for prosecution.
You might want to read up on the subject of human sexual physiology and the psychology of rape a bit.


so then that would be assualt, not rape though

[Kenzan]

so then that would be assault, not rape though

Let me be more concise.
Sexual penetration or contact can, will, and does happen regardless of the genital state.

You might want to read up on it.
Here's a good place to start:

http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/q097.htm

Also, as stated before, rape is a crime of violence, control and power, not simply a case of unrequited sexual desire.

[Ignatz]

instead of just a name-calling match, would you care to elaborate/explain why this opinion is stupid to you?
First of all your opinion is not "stupid to me". It is plain, every day, run of the mill stupid. I have explained the folly of your "reasoning" several times, as have others. You are just a moron and can't or won't listen.
While you are entitled to your opinion, it is, in fact, a worthless opinion and we need waste no more time on it, or you for that matter.
PLONK

[Alison2805]

k.en21: you need to read up on male physiology before continuing to argue about this. The following quote is from a male rape support website:

"Male survivors tend to question their sexual orientation more often than women who have been raped. Sometimes men will experience an erection or ejaculate during their assaults as an involuntary response to physical sensation, intense fear or pain. This may lead the survivor to question whether or not he somehow wanted to be assaulted or that perhaps he may be gay."

This applies whether the person is being attacked by a male or female.

[k.en21]

i see...thanx for explaining yourselves Alison2805 & Kenzan... I understand what you guys were talking about now and have a change of view on this subject

[kartoffelngeist]

I can imagine Ignatz in court giving a very good legal reasoning about why someone is wrong, then finishing off with: You're just a moron.

[Manuka]

and for Ignatz to be successful, the jury would have to agree with him.
Getting fined for contempt and the jury thinking "arrogance" would not be a good career move.

However in this case, this member does agree with the summation.

Please note that Ignatz also thinks I am a moron because we disagree on another topic.

[Ignatz]

and for Ignatz to be successful, the jury would have to agree with him.
Getting fined for contempt and the jury thinking "arrogance" would not be a good career move.

However in this case, this member does agree with the summation.

Please note that Ignatz also thinks I am a moron because we disagree on another topic.
The trick is keeping morons off the jury. I have tried about 400 jury trials, how many have you done? Watching TV or staying at the Holiday Express doesn't count.
And yes, if memory serves me your views on capital punishment are kneejerk redneck. I don't think you are a moron because we disagree, lots of people disagree with me and are not morons. It is your less than well thought out, uniformed and misguided belief that makes you suspect.

[k.en21]

i like how he just keeps yelling "moron!" in every post.

[Kenzan]

I think you might want to quit while you're ahead.
Just some friendly advice.

..It is Friday the 13th, you know.
:D

[kartoffelngeist]

Nah, I love a good flame war...

Carry on...:p

[I_am_Cthulhu]

Woman simply can't rape a man without some particiapation by the man.AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!

1) Read the thread again
2) Email the mods to cancel your account

[Paikea]

i like how he just keeps yelling "moron!" in every post.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to k.en21 again.

Funny thing is - I don't remember doing it the first time. Did I at least sign my name?

[Inner_Silence]

my god, i didnt knew that my silly little example would bring such large discussion...