Men Border

[totortueto]

On my Men, the black painted border is starting to chip off, is this related to the quality of the Men? Or just the aftermath of people hitting me too hard? What purpose does that paint serve anyways? Decoration?

[Pan-Chan]

The wear of the border around the men-gane is just from regular use; if it gets hit, over a period of time it starts to chip. You are able to have it re-done, though.

I'm not really sure if there is a significant meaning for the border being there. I've always assumed it was there to cover up the area where the men-gane is attached to make it look better.

[mkomoto]

The leather "daiwa" is there to complete the union of the men-gane structure to the rest of the men construction. It covers the sewing of the futon, cushion, to the men-gane+tsuki component, and protects those threads from direct impact. It is laquered as both form of protection (Japanese lacquer is very hard substance and resists scratching, etc., from bamboo and plastic shinai) and mositure barrier against contact on the exterior side.

With age, repeated beatings resulting in some "work-hardening", and malability in the base (due to infiltation of moisture to the leather ring) the lacquer may crack or chip away in little bits.

Great care should be exercised against allowing the daiwa to become wet, such as wiping with wet towels, etc, and leaving the daiwa wet; packing wet uniforms in contact with the men, etc.

The men should be allowed to dry thoroughly on a regular basis (there is another thread on drying men somewhere and is worth taking a look,) which in turn allows the daiwa and area around it to dry out as well. (Remember the cloth under the daiwa does not have the direct air exposure, and needs time for the moisture to propogate to the surrounding dry areas and evaporate.

One of the biggest culprits to saturating a men with moisture is keeping it in a closed bogu bag for a long time, especially in warmer enviroments. (Where possible without offending surrounding people) leaving the zipper of the bogu bag open just a few or several inches will allow mosit air to escape. The bogu should be removed and hung up as soon a possible after returning home.

Chipped and worn daiwa can be re-lacquered and this will do much to protect and prolong the life of the men. The daiwa must be perfectly dry prior to application, and raw exposed leather must be treated with a non-oil permeable primer before application of lacquer. Japanese lacquer is preferred due to its good properties for this application; however, everyone shoud be warned that Japanese lacquer it toxic and must be handled by expert hands.

Hope this is useful.

M

[ben]

It's good to have you responding with your vast knowledge Komoto sensei. I often refer to the Chiba Bogu website for the in-depth explanation of obscure (and not-so-obscure) bogu issues.

A question: would you counsel AGAINST using a leather colour-change dye for touching up cracks? I know urushi is preferred, but with an older or lower quality men it may not be cost-effective. I have used this kind of dye in the past (it's thick like nail varnish and has a glossy finish very similar to the lacquer) and it works well cosmetically. It also does not seem to have affected the structural integrity of the leather at all.

b

[mkomoto]

...would you counsel AGAINST using a leather colour-change dye for touching up cracks? I know urushi is preferred, but with an older or lower quality men it may not be cost-effective. I have used this kind of dye in the past (it's thick like nail varnish and has a glossy finish very similar to the lacquer) and it works well cosmetically. It also does not seem to have affected the structural integrity of the leather at all.

b

Dear Ben,

I am not familiar with the product, but if you have had good experience with it, and find it is durable enough to take the beating it gets in kendo, go ahead. It should serve the same roll, as protection and moisture barrier.

Just one thing, if you are applying directly to exposed leather, you'll need to find a good non-oil-permeable primer. You might be able to find this in a crafts store, or model-airplane shop. (The fatty oil that occurs natually in leather prevents good bonding of laquers and paints and allows those materials to fall off after a short while of use.)

Cheers,

M

[totortueto]

For some reason my men border isn't leather... It looks like a really hard synthetic material. I'm not sure if that's normal...

[mkomoto]

For some reason my men border isn't leather... It looks like a really hard synthetic material. I'm not sure if that's normal...

Are you sure that it is not the (heavily coated black and red) lacquered finish on top of the leather daiwa?

The only men with a plastic daiwa (that I am familiar with) is the Hasegawa "Mujun" men. It is very distinctive as it has a plastic face-shield, and the tsuki-dare, the tsuki target is integral to the daiwa.

If not that, it is a product many of us have not seen yet, and would like to see a picture of.

Cheers to all,

M

[bullet08]

For some reason my men border isn't leather... It looks like a really hard synthetic material. I'm not sure if that's normal...

you sure it doesn't look like dried up raw hide that people give to the dogs for chewing?

pete

[totortueto]

That's a possibility... I guess. It's not part of the Mujun men, I know that for sure.

[EBP2K2]

mine started to chip off, almost immediately.

totortueto, where do u practice in toronto?

[totortueto]

JCCC kendo.