Hand vs Machine

[Will]

Other than price, what's the difference between hand stitched and machine stitched bogu?

What is everyone's preference? Why?

Can someone who haas used both, tell me if they can "feel" the differences?

What is bu? I think I read that 1 bu=2mm, but don't they make machine stitched bogu at that level, too?

[ben]

Hi Will,

My understanding of the difference is that whereas machine stiching is simply linear, hand-stitching is interlocked in two directions, thus making it more durable.

However I bought a pair of kote from Tozando that were about 3bu, and just like 6mm machine stitching, they became soft very quickly. My 3mm machine stitched kote are still much harder and more protective.

Bu is just an old Japanese unit of measurement. I think you're correct, 1 bu approx = 2 or 2.5 mm.

IMHO high-quality machine stitched bogu are equal to all but the most expensive of hand-stitched. IOW I would buy a 2mm armour before I would buy a 2bu armour.

However the only pieces of armour I have that are hand-stitched are the afore-mentioned kote. Someone who has owned complete sets of both kinds would be able to give you more info on overall "feel".

:)

[richard haly]

Greetings Will,

My understanding - which is limited by the fact that I still have not received my 1.2 bu handmade bougu from Tozando (It's two months late!) - is that handmade work is more durable as the craftsman use thicker futon material and are able to compress it manually to a greater degree than a machine can. I'll report on it when it finally arrives - which should be soon - if you're interested.

Best,

Richard

[alexpollijr]

Richard

Two months is nothing at Tozando :mad:
Has Ms. Sano stopped answering your emails already?

Anyway, tezashi bogu is more durable and , at the smaller stiching sizes, much more protective and confortable than machine made ones.

I'm looking forward to buy a tezashi bogu from Mori Budo in the future (2 - 3 years maybe). By now i'll stick to my 2mm machine one who is very hard yet strangely it fails to absorb the shock correctly.

Alex Polli

[richard haly]

Two months is nothing? ouch. I have been in touch with Yamamoto san throughout and our email history reads like some (tragi)comedy of errors. Many promises, many deadlines, many excuses. They just missed another one today. It seems more like dealing with the tailor in Mexico who prompted the following story:

A suit is promised on Wednesday and the customer shows up on the following Friday to pick it up, giving them an extra two days leeway. When the suit is not ready, the customer says "But you told me it would be ready on Wednesday." To which the tailor replies, "But you didn't come on Wednesday."

Anyone have similar experience with Tozando?

[Confound]

If you aren't a stickler for hand made, and you'll be satisfied with merely high quality machine made merchandise, there are hundreds of budogutans in japan that do mail order business. in fact, oosaka budogutan, where I buy my stuff, would probablt do mail order, as long as you addressed it to them in simple japanese.

This is not as hard as it sounds. Get someone to mail you a catalogue, send them a letter saying you'd like to buy whatever you want to buy, and ask them if they'll ship to your country, along with asking if international money orders are ok. If you offer to pay in yen, they'll like you even more. Seriously, it isn't that hard. I buy tsuba from a dealer in kyoto occasionally, and i'm sure he laughs very hard at my lousy japanese letters, but he sends me the merchandise!

In all seriousness, I'm thinking of stocking up on gear before i leave, because I keep hearing horror stories about the shoddy quality of the gear outside japan. Is it true that bogu outside Japan isn't very good? I'm living here, and the Japanese naturally think anything they make is the best in the world, but their opinions are so incredibly biased that I don't trust those opinions as far as I can throw them with my grannies dentures.

that's enough drivel for now, i suspect.

c

[JSchmidt]

Richard, I've had both good and bad experiences with Tozando. I now mainly use them for shinais (I'm in love with their thick handled shinai).
Either it's there within a week or it's 2 months+ :(.

"Is it true that bogu outside Japan isn't very good?"

I guess it depends. Korean machine made armor is very good. I've had several Japanese players look incrediously at me, when I told my armor was Korean and how much it costed. (I got mine from Sehyun, about $700 for 2.5mm)

Jakob

[Confound]

Originally posted by JSchmidt
Korean machine made armor is very good. I've had several Japanese players look incrediously at me, when I told my armor was Korean and how much it costed. (I got mine from Sehyun, about $700 for 2.5mm)

Jakob

O boy... Korean? I can imagine what the Japanese kendouka were thinking too. (One thing one can say about most Japanese with great certainty is that they don't like Korea. Everything that is wrong with Japan is the fault of foreigners, especially Koreans, according to my work colleagues.)

Nice price though. It's looking like everyone else gets a better deal than me on bogu. how ironic.

[KhawMengLee]

O boy... Korean? I can imagine what the Japanese kendouka were thinking too. (One thing one can say about most Japanese with great certainty is that they don't like Korea. Everything that is wrong with Japan is the fault of foreigners, especially Koreans, according to my work colleagues.)

Heh, I remember watching this japanese movie about racism in Japan. It was about a korean taxi driver and just his life in Japan. Plus in the movie his girlfriend is Phillipino and his Korean mother considers her to be unworthy...heh

It was a pretty funny flick...

Well, the Chinese say pretty much the same thing (I know, I hear enough from my peers).

We are all individuals.

Stereotypes suck.