Do all Hakama have split legs?

[Tako-kun]

Do all Hakama have a crotch, or are some just a big skirt or kilt? I'm looking at the kendoshop #10000 Indigo dyed XL set (http://kendoshop.com/eshop/index.php?mode=sub&catedb=4) for US$133, but I noticed this exchange in their customer service section:

Are all your hakamas split leg? Or are they skirt types?
(Or maybe even mixed?): How do I tell which one is which? :)

Written By : Julien

Helllo
This is Kendoshop.
Thanks for the inquiry.
In reponse to your inqiry,
All our hakama is skirt type.

Regards
kendoshop

and

Is it possible to order a split style Hakama from
KendoShop, or not??

Written By : Michelle

Hello.
We have never do that, may be you can do it yourself.
Nobody wants to get that style until now.

Regards
kendoshop


I'm buying my first uni, and I like the idea of getting #10000 weight indego dyed cotton & double layer keikogi for much less than most other retailer's offerings, and I don't mind if they're not as fancy as a more expensive japanese set, so long as they last well. However, unless those help-desk exchanges are some kind of linguistic miscommunication of ideas, the kendoshop hakama is constructed differently any I have seen at our dojo; so, would a crotchless hakama be acceptable? Would it function any differently?

Also, could anyone who has purchased Kendoshop's #10000 keikogi or hakama (approx. US$130 for the set) post a quick review of the quality?

Thanks to anyone who can help.

Mike Geen

[ben]

Sounds like a language gap to me. Not that that helps. In traditional but non-kendo setting, skirt type (ie not split) hakama are for women.

[Hai_hai]

Originally posted by Tako-kun
...so, would a crotchless hakama be acceptable? Would it function any differently? ...

A skirt-type hakama would look strange in sonkyo.
A crotchless hakama would look really strange unless you are an exhibitionist.

[kendomushi]

The problem may come from the way hakama are usually explained by Japanese in English, they refer to them as "skirt-like trousers."
Using that terminology, yes all traditional hakama are skirt types.
I have never seen a true skirt worn for kendo.

[Fraz]

Crotchless Hakama..? What if your dressed traditionally underneath..? *shudders* :lol:

[Tako-kun]

Quick Update: I've received my hakama from Kendoshop and yes, it's bog standard with split legs etc. All that confusion was just an english-as-a-second-language problem.

[Tako-kun]

Fraz:

I would have thought that a Scot of all people would be used to that sort of thing :)

/goes regimental, marches around playing Scotland the Brave

[Fraz]

I am used to it.... It's just that I don't enjoy watching that sort of thing.... Unless she's cute ;)

[Alex]

This is a breakdown in communication. They do mean that it is split for the reasons explained above. However, there are hakama which are not split that are available. I actually have one, but they are not used for kendo. They are formal hakama used in the tea ceremony etc. But they are not that common.

[iwatekenshi]

I even heard that the hakama we use in kendo were originally made for riding horses. Is this true??
I certainly can't imagine wearing a hakama that's not split and getting on a horse and then riding into battle :eek: ?!

[Alex]

Just out of interest, here is the entry for Hakama in the 'Kodansha Encyclopedia of Japan'

"Loose trousers tied at the waist with a cord and worn over a kimono as part of formal or ceremonial Japanese-style dress. Men's hakama underwent a variety of changes over time: the legs were widened, pleats were added at the waist, and they were bound at the ankles with a cord threaded through the hem. During the Heian period (794–1185), court ladies wore loose-fitting crimson hakama with their formal court ensemble, or junihitoe. Hakama were worn by the court ladies of the Kamakura (1185–1333) and Muromachi (1333–1568) periods with kosode (a type of long-sleeved kimono), although for a time they went out of fashion as formal wear. In the Meiji period (1868–1912), the kosode and hakama combination was the school uniform for girls. Traditional formal dress for men consists of hakama and a jacket known as a haori, usually imprinted with the man's family crest. Today hakama are often worn by women receiving a degree at university commencement exercises. They are also worn by people engaging in such traditional activities as kendo (fencing) and kyudo (archery) and by actors in the No theater."