Kendo and diet

[Pokie]

Ok..here's something I've been hearing about, what is the ideal diet for kendo ? What foods should we eat to help us to improve kendo faster ? I've heard of a high protein diet...i dun eat much carbos after 3 pm...kinda worked

[Hongsermeier]

I don't think there is an ideal diet. Every person is different. I try to eat a light early dinner. Practice at 5, eat by 3. My wife on the other hand can't do that. She wants to eat in the car on the way to practice. I've tired that and almost threw-up during kakarigeko. :cross_eye

[Charlie]

Blood soup, and the ground-up bones of one's enemies, obviously.

No, just kidding. This is a good question. I eat like Hongser, big lunch at 1:00-ish or 2-ish, practice at 7:00. Not sure, but I think the Japanese diet in general is very different from the western.

[Phlebas]

Same here. I try to eat a light meal about two hours before practice, but it rarely includes a lot of meat. It's usually a sandwich + veggies + 1 piece of fruit, or a stir fry with some rice, ALWAYS with lots of water throughout the whole day. I tried a small steak once, but I still felt like I just finished eating by the time practice started! A light meal of veggies, fruits, carbs and water seem to do the trick for me... but as someone else mentioned, it largely depends on the individual.

[Marine_Boy]

A big round pork pie from north of the border!

No really, I usually have a small fry up before practice.

BTW, I practice at Saturday lunchtime so a fry up is justified and it is a Saturday!

Stan:D

[Atama]

Pies and beer .....thats the northern diet

[Sir Percy]

This sounds silly bit it's always worked for me, a peanut butter and jelly sandwich (or honey) with lots of water about two hours before exercise. Gatorade during training (if allowed) and a protein meal at the end of training (usually grill a hamburger steak) to reduce catabolism after exercise. Take 2 gm of creatine daily, improves muscular function and endurance.

[supernils]

Omori gyu don with ponzu sauce, miso soup, salad with shidzo dressing and tea at Matsuya.
Repeat three times every day
End day with 1000 yen beer and sour nomihodai at Lemon House

[Charlie]

Now, I was reading in KW that one should eat a high-protein diet after practice. What is "catabolism?"

[Sir Percy]

Charlie asks:


What is "catabolism?"

Catabolism is the opposite of anabolism. Anabolic agents are those which promote muscle growth (androgenic steroids, growth hormone, etc.). Various amino acids and are also catabolic and preserve muscle mass and function in periods of stress (most prominent clinical cases may be seen in patients with AIDS, burn victims, cancer, severe infectious diseases, etc.) and to a lesser degree with exercise.

[Kendoka]

Originally posted by Pokie
Ok..here's something I've been hearing about, what is the ideal diet for kendo ? What foods should we eat to help us to improve kendo faster ? I've heard of a high protein diet...i dun eat much carbos after 3 pm...kinda worked

Deja vu!

Carbohydrates are converted to glycogen. Glycogen is the fuel that your muscles consume.

High protein diets help build muscle bulk, they are not as good a fuel source as carbs.

Diet - up to you, but vegetables, pasta, rice, bread, fruit all should be major part of what you consume.

You can get carbs quickly from a little sip of sports drink as well if you need them.


Richard

[angryshinai]

I found a really good site for ppl who may be interested in taking creatine. From what ive read it looks like there are some good benefits..

Just quoting the site..

In fact some studies have shown that creatine can help reduce your chances of heart disease and adult on-set diabetes. It was found that after 51 days of taking creatine the study group had a 22% decrease in VLDL-cholesterol levels and a 23% decrease in blood triglyceride levels. VLDL-cholesterol and triglycerides are risk factors for heart disease and adult on-set diabetes.

http://www.absolute-creatine.com/

to me that looks all good so im going to give it a go...

[Marine_Boy]

One side effect of creatine is that it gives you smelly s**ts!

Stan:)

[JSchmidt]

As far as I have read, the jury is still very much out on creatine..I suspect it's yet another of those supplement-fads that will fade away, when the next hot new supplement turns up.
As for diets, it depends on what you want...your best bet is always trying to go for a balanced diet, with plenty of fruit and vegs. Your most friendly fuel source is carbohydrate, but too much of it can be just as unhealthy (ie fattening) as fatty foods.

Jakob

[Charlie]

Originally posted by Marine_Boy
One side effect of creatine is that it gives you smelly s**ts!

As opposed to...?

:D

[Marine_Boy]

As opposed to...?

As opposed to not so smelly ones. I was also told that it gives you constipation aswell.

Stan:)

[Charlie]

Originally posted by Marine_Boy
As opposed to not so smelly ones.

Yeah, I was just jokin'! Dunno about you, but my sh-t don't stink...

:D

[Paburo]

chanko nabe and choko!

[burger boy]

It seems as though there are more and more pro-creatine articles coming out every day. The latest bit I've read is that there are some studies showing that it has a positive fat-burning effect and I've also been reading that it has become quite popular among endurance atheletes, and not just the gym rats.

As far as people I know that use/used it, mileage varies. Some swear by it (huge muscle people, increased stamina) others hate it (gasto-intestinal hell!). I'm from the later category. I have tried every different form and brand of creatine during my "getting huge" days and just can't tolerate it.

The supplement appears to be pretty safe, but a lot of critics say that we'll just have to wait for some long term studies until we can say that for sure.


burger boy

[Flashman]

One of the sensei in our club quit kendo because of confusion after receiving a lot of men strikes. Creatine might have been of assistance in preventing concussive injury to the brain. While this is a mice study (it's difficult to get patients randomized to a concussion study :D ) a lot of NFL teams are now advocating creatine for their players.

I recently went to a seminar on sports supplements and the speakers (MDs and trainers) were advocating this supplement as having a very high benefit to risk ratio.

Here's a report from WebMD:

"Nov. 2, 2000 -- The dietary supplement creatine is widely used by athletes to increase muscle mass and performance. Now a new study, conducted in animals, suggests that it may also protect against damage due to brain injury in people.

"Professional quarterbacks in the NFL sustain many concussions, with less damage than we might expect," senior author Stephen W. Scheff, PhD, tells WebMD. "That could be because they're taking creatine." Scheff is professor of anatomy and neurobiology at the University of Kentucky School of Medicine and associate director of basic research at the Sanders-Brown Center on Aging, both in Lexington.

In this study, published in the November issue of The Annals of Neurology, researchers fed rats and mice a diet high in creatine, and then simulated a concussion. They found that rats who ate a creatine diet for four weeks had a 50% reduction in brain damage, compared to rats on a normal diet. Mice who received three days of creatine pretreatment had a 21% decline in damaged cells, while those who received five days of creatine pretreatment had a 36% decline.

This doesn't mean you should eat creatine ahead of time before having a concussion, because concussions obviously aren't planned. But because these animal studies show creatine works by increasing energy production in the part of the brain cells responsible for generating the body's energy, called the mitochondria, it may be possible to find a substance that has a similar effect if taken soon after a concussion or brain injury. Scheff and other researchers have looked at several substances and are now conducting tests on one promising possibility.

Just as important, creatine may be valuable in several diseases where mitochondrial dysfunction plays a role. According to Sinclair Smith, ScD, many previous studies have indicated that creatine has the capacity to protect nerves. These reports have shown that it has good results in Lou Gehrig's disease (also known as amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, or ALS) and multiple sclerosis among others, he tells WebMD. Smith is an assistant professor of physiology in the occupational therapy department at Temple University School of Medicine in Philadelphia.

He believes creatine could potentially assist in treatment of diseases involving nerves and muscle. "I don't expect it will be a cure, but it may slow the disease process. Future research needs to focus on how creatine works in humans, and how it works in conjunction with other treatments. This is a hot area right now."

Head injuries predispose people to early onset of Alzheimer's disease, though no one knows why. This suggests creatine might also possibly slow Alzheimer's progression, Scheff speculates. "We don't know if it will stave off the disease, but it might be worth investigating."

However, since creatine is a nutritional supplement, it isn't regulated by the FDA, and it hasn't been tested for safety in human beings. At the same time, lots of athletes are taking it, and lots of health food stores are selling it.

Last May, the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association released a statement warning about potential negative consequences of creatine. Although there have been no formal studies, observers say it may be linked to cramps, diarrhea, nausea, dizziness, high blood pressure, and liver and kidney problems.

But Scheff says creatine is an inexpensive substance with no known side effects. "Three grams of creatine per day is a maintenance dose," he says. "I buy it at the local grocery store before I go skiing."

Edward J. Kasarskis, MD, PhD, agrees creatine may play a valuable role in fighting diseases of the nervous system. When mice with ALS are fed creatine, they live longer, he tells WebMD. Now studies are planned to test creatine in humans with ALS. Meanwhile, since creatine is readily available, many of these patients are already taking it on their own.

"When people are faced with a desperate disease that has no effective treatment, they don't worry about side effects. They're eager to try something that may prolong life. We don't encourage them; we don't discourage them. Is creatine safe and effective for this condition? We don't know," says Kasarskis, a professor of neurology at the University of Kentucky's Chandler Medical Center and a member of the Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis Association's Subcommittee on Gulf War Veterans and Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis.
© 2000 WebMD Inc. All rights reserved. "

[neo_dragon_kai]

catabolism is the breaking down of ur nutrients,wastes, anything.
it's a necessisty, same with anabolism.
catabolism + anabolism = metabolism
sir percy made it sound like catabolism is bad,
but it's really a part of metabolism.

[Kendoka]

Pokie asked about diet.

[Pokie]

oh no i don't mind, keep sharing ur vast knowlegde with everyone, the atom was split accidentally, we might find something new here, like puree scrambled eggs and watermelon juice topped with anchovies, might split the atom in us

[Ares2907]

Given that most of the reports written about creatine are done so by people with a vested interest in selling the stuff, one should always try and stay objective when reading about it (and supplements in general). Unless stuff is backed up by double blind studies and is not making outlandish claims then you'd do well to ignore it.
The creatine/mice/brain damage thing reads like comedy to me.
Anyway AFA diet goes, it really depends on what it is you're trying to achieve. If you just want to have enough energy to make it to the end of training, a handful of M&Ms 10 mins before you start will probably do the trick. If you're looking for a long term diet for optimum performance, that's a different kettle of fish.
For creatine discussion, google stuff from misc.fitness.weights. There have been some very interesting, very intelligent discussions. There have also been some at the other end of the spectrum but thankfully it's not too hard to differentiate between the two.
While I'm on my soapbox, for those of you who are reasonably overweight and want to drop fat, have a look at a cyclic ketogenic diet. google misc.fitness.weights on ketogenic diet and Lyle McDonald. The diet section of the FAQ at www.hypertrophy-specific.com 's forum is well worth a read also.

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you want to lose weight, eat less and exercise. If you need structure to eat less, Weight Watchers is excellent.

[Yellow Savage]

anyone tried the no carbs diet...I'm trying that out now cause I need to loose weight fast...being a heavy mo fo my knees and heels are starting to feel the stress

[Hyaku]

Hello Yellow Savage

Im not on a diet but I have cut down on carbs and there is a marked difference.
Its easy for me where I live but for you it must be harder with lots of spuds about.

Hyaku

[Ares2907]

Yellow savage, you may want to try a targeted ketogenic diet.
In any case, you'll want to do a carb refeed about once a week to stop your leptin levels getting too low (As I understand it, this will cause a slowdown in your metabolism). See my above post for details.
I've done the very low carbs thing (cyclic ketogenic). Dropped a good deal of fat. Just make sure you're smart about it to minimise muscle catabolism.

[Nishi]

Originally posted by Yellow Savage
anyone tried the no carbs diet...I'm trying that out now cause I need to loose weight fast...being a heavy mo fo my knees and heels are starting to feel the stress

I started the atkins nutrition plan last year, and although ive been eating freely for the last 6 months, when i was on the diet i lot 42 pounds(16 weeks). I have since put between 4 and 8 pounds back on. The first two weeks is difficult getting started and you need to make weekly menus to keep focused, but when your body runs out of carbs/glucose/glycogen in the blood and muscles you burn fat to survive. This is accompanied by a highly energetic feeling that almost feels euphoric....i have just started again in preperation for my nidan and my wedding in august. Your first two weeks, you lose about a stone (14lbs).

[PhilMcLaughlin]

to lose weight:

eat less food, drink less beer - exercise more, drink lots of (plain) water

stay hydrated & unless you are a full time athlete you should be ok eating whatever you want in moderation (even pies and beer ;-)

when you adopt almost any diet plan you will lose weight because you are concentrating on calorie intake whether its atkins, the hay diet or whatever

cheers

[Neil Gendzwill]

1 lb fat == 3500 calories, more or less. If you consume less calories than your body requires, you will lose weight. That's it, that's all, everything else is hype. The major problem is knowing when you're at, which is where outfits like weight watchers really help with handy ways to figure out what your intake is and how much you burn (only they go by "points" rather than calories).

[Hongsermeier]

I read something interesting yesterday in the paper. It seams the docs in the US have changed their minds. For how ever many years they have been saying "you should eat a low fat diet to loose weight". Yet americans kept getting fatter and fatter. Now they have decided that the offending food is sugar. Of course they don't tell you that all the man made sugar replacements they have made cause cancer. OOPS!!!!! What a money making idea. Population controll and money for the docs for the treatments all rolled into one.
Eat a balanced diet and exercise. :cross_eye

[Sir Percy]

The diet/carbohydrate matter has been an issue with some of us for more than a little time and many MDs (and I include myself) have been advocates of decreased carbohydrate diets for more than a decade. The genesis of the high carbohydrate diet may be found in government recommendations and dietitians and not from physician groups.

[Charlie]

Sir Percy, if you were to redesign the "nutritional pyramid," what would it look like?

[Ares2907]

What Neil is saying is more or less true. Weight loss is a bit of a tricky one though. Most people say weight loss and mean fat loss. Those are two different animals.
Lots of ways to lose weight:
don't eat, don't drink, take a big big dump, amputation... you get the idea.
Losing fat is a matter of ingesting less calories as Neil said. Plenty of ways to do that too. Unfortunately there are lots of fad diets based on shoddy research or no research at all.
There are things to watch out for depending on what method you use. Things such as leptin levels, glycemic index can be important factors. The things you eat can affect what your body burns, your apetite, your energy levels etc.
However unless you're massively overweight or trying to get to single-percentage bodyfat for a bodybuilding comp, it's not something you need to put a great deal of thought into.
A sensible intake of protein, good fats and carbs will keep you from becoming a behemoth or a stick insect.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I'm reminded of an old Bloom County cartoon where Opus (the penguin) is wanting to lose weight and going through all the various fad diet/pill options available to him. In each frame, Milo is replying "eat less and exercise", getting gradually louder and louder. Opus' reply is of course "can't be that, must be a pill" or something like that.

Further to the whole diet thing, there's been a ton of research done to show that crash dieting rarely works - to take weight off and keep it off, you have to make a lifestyle change, which means (duh!) eat less and exercise, in a sane fashion that you can maintain.

[KhawMengLee]

Bloom County and Outland....Berkeley Breathed is a Legend! Only one that comes close is Darby Conley's Get Fuzzy