Marial Arts cross training

[Winter_Wolf]

Hello all,
I was curious as to peoples opinions on cross training different marial arts. For example, if someone is taking kendo, and they also want to take judo or karate, how would that affect their kendo? Does anyone here do this, and if so, have the two martial arts complemented each other? I wouldn't mind taking a second martial art, but I don't want it to interfere with my kendo training...
Thanks,
W.W.

[Old Warrior]

The footwork is the nightmare. After a decade of Karate and two decades of European fencing, I first came to Kendo. True when I put on the keikogi and hakama I know I'm doing Kendo. But I have had to work extra hard to stop that "T" step fencing advance and that "C" step Karate sliding advance where one foot crosses the other. Working against ingrained muscle memory makes learning that much harder.

[hobbit]

I concurr with old warrior, I found my karate training kept interferring - i always wanted to lead with my right ( I'm a southpaw ) and angle my body to reduce the target. I also kept blocking with my elbows, protecting my sides, but I soon got out of the habit of doing that ( it hurt !!).:beard:

[Sir Percy]

I think you'd be better off with racquetball, fast, quick footwork, lots of hand eye and decision making on the fly. Works best for me.

[Kiki]

I was studying ju-jitsu for a short while before kendo and I found it to be very helpful. Ju-jitsu does not teach kata but rather to develop the ability to control the attackers ki. That’s a simple explanation but it comes in handy for kendo especially from the tsubazare(sp) position or if someone is doing a lot of pushing. I am sure if I had continued I would have better examples. I think you would find it easier to blend these styles together.

Ju-jitsu is sometimes called a “parent art” because many other styles can trace their roots back to it. Including Akido and Judo and even some Karate. It’s over 2,500 years old. Like kendo it’s taught by sensei who love the art and many donate their time to teach. Don’t be surprised if the only place you can find ju-jitsu is at the ‘Y’ or a Park & Rec center.
http://www.americanjujitsuassociation.org

OT at work forced me to make a choice but if I ever get more “free time” I’ll add ju-jitsu back to my training schedule.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Kiki
Ju-jitsu is sometimes called a “parent art” because many other styles can trace their roots back to it. Including Akido and Judo and even some Karate.

Jujutsu is a broad term referring to old family grappling styles. Like kenjutsu, it doesn't mean anything by itself.

It’s over 2,500 years old.

The oldest formalised teaching of martial arts in Japan is only around 700 years old. There aren't any Japanese martial arts that can trace their lineage back further than that.

[Charlie]

I'd keep it pure if you can. I myself train in both kendo/iaido and judo as well as a bit of kickboxing, and I don't feel I have time for all of them. Well, and I don't see it as cross-training. Kendo is my "main thing" and everything else I do for self-defense (started in kickboxing so that's always been around); I got into judo to round out my grappling abilities.

Old Warrior makes a good point. If you're looking to add another art that would complement kendo, I think it could only be iaido or jodo or something. For me, they interfere, really, and don't complement one another at all. Although the judo background is nice when one of the sempai grabs hold of you out of tsuba zeriai...

Edit: Your mileage may vary, of course! It's neat to do two arts. In my schedule, judo and everything else usually takes a back seat to kendo.

[ben]

Who has the time? Not me. I think I'd do yoga if I had a spare moment. Zazen, although not an MA obviously, is very good: the best cure for the four sicknesses.

This topic gets discussed at regular intervals here and on e-budo. The best comment I heard was on e-budo where someone said trying to amass expertise through different arts simultaneously is like trying to make a baby in one month by impregnating 9 women. Basically its better to concentrate on one to a level of some expertise (3-5 years minimum) before investigating others. Then you MIGHT see the underlying principles that connect different arts. Or your muscles might still get confused by the footwork.

b

[Hyaku]

Its possible. The level I have achieved in both modern and classical arts is proof of that.

But how much time does one have to devote to more than one thing anyway? I have my own Dojo three minutes walk from my desk and ten minutes from home and spend most of my working time just keeping a seat warm. So I am fortunate enough to be able to put in the time.

I found a lot of fundamentals I had learned in Karate have similar hip twisting movements in Kenjutsu. But it's a never ending battle if you want to reach a really good level in anything. As one advances things become far more precise and the tiniest habits of one art show up in another.

I have always viewed the sword arts particularly as wheels of a cart. Without a doubt they do compliment each other but you have to be very careful. Jack of all trades master of non comes to mind.

Doing Kendo Jigeiko with strong Iai people is very obvious. Their cutting power is much stronger but they are very stationary. Not much going through. Likewise I had problems in Iai as I was not stationary enough. So I found a home in Batto Jutsu that seemed to suit my needs more. Now KenJutsu seems to incorperate all of these things. But the main difference is cuts to unprotected areas. One of these days I might forget myself if I see a nice opportunity to thrust up under someones men and put the poor guy in hospital, (only joking).

The Japanese Police do such an activity. They wear a white uniform for this.
At Police Kendo competitions they get together teams and use Juijitsu, Judo, Kendo, Karate etc. To be honest its a bit of a free for all as its a difficult thing to judge.

To be honest it would be a lot easier for me if things never changed. One could drill in one particular art in a specific way and stick to it. But its not like that. Kendo has changed a lot since I first started. Also as Prof Bodiford has said recently things like classical Budo are constantly evolving and will change just through the lifetime of one Soke as he himself is still learning.

If you do more than one art you have to stick at it! Then as Ben said its different muscles in use. Your body gets used to using one set then you ask it to use another?

I am not to sure about Bens comparison with women though. Just over three days each? Not very moralistic but if I was ordered to do it? Sounds like fun.

Hyaku

[kendomushi]

I did kendo and combative tai-chi for a while. My tai-chi progressed quickly because sensei said I already understood how to move from having done kendo. My kendo improved from learning how to better focus and use my whole body in a move/attack.

[Charlie]

I actually see quite a few similarities between kendo and boxing/kickboxing. Grappling - whew, whole 'nother game!

[Kiki]

OK, Mr. Gendzwill, I was just sharing some points I found interesting when I first learned about ju-jitsu. Now I have to go get my text book...
Jujitsu: Basic techniques of THE GENTLE ART
by George Kirby

“parent art”, yes, a catch all like saying Christianity or Buddhism.

Over 2500 years old - Did not mean to imply ju-jitsu is only a blend of Japanese waza.
“Jujitsu developed from many individual teachings that either originated in Japan or found their way to Japan from other Asian countries. In 2674 B.C. the first mention of martial arts comes from the Huang Di (China) who founded wu-su (martial arts), a concept in which the body was used for self-defense purposes.”

But even if it were only from Japan:
“In 230 B.C. the wrestling sport of chikura kurabe developed in Japan was integrated into jujitsu training....evidence that empty-hand techniques were in use during the Heian period (A.D. 794-1185) in Japan....

and most interestingly - too me anyway:
“In A.D. 880 Prince Teijin... formed the Daito-Ryu Aki Ju-Jitsu School... based on the secret teaching of shugendo, the eventual source of kendo....”

Not trying to start a research war here (yawn) but I didn’t want to seem a wimp either. :)

All that aside, I feel you can benefit from training in another art or sport. Kendomushi example is a clear one.

...back to Harry Potter

[Neil Gendzwill]

I think you need a new textbook. Daito ryu in particular is a relatively modern (19th century) school. See http://www.koryu.com/guide/daito.html

[Winter_Wolf]

Hello,
Thanks for all of the replies everyone! It seems opinions vary pretty widely, so I will make sure to ask my sensei next week about this subject, since he would also be the first to notice if the cross training interfered w/ my kendo. As an aside, the other martial art I would be taking would be Judo, but mainly for the self defense applications (and because its free!).
Neil and Kiki- If you keep arguing, i'll make you give each other a digital hug! lol jk.
Thanks,
W.W.

[Winter_Wolf]

Also,
Kendomushi do you know of a site I could get some info on tai chi?
Thanks,
W.W.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Originally posted by Winter_Wolf

Neil and Kiki- If you keep arguing, i'll make you give each other a digital hug!
I think it's more on the lines of a friendly discussion yet. History of budo is a pet peeve of mine. I'm not a big historian guy, but I do know that the historical claims of many schools are wrong. As soon as the 2,000 year old arguments come up, my warning bells start going off. This is not necessarily a reflection on the quality of the school or instruction BTW, it's something seperate.

[iwatekenshi]

Japan didn't have a writing system until around the 5th century. Since nothing was recorded before that it is hard to imagine a martial art that has been around longer than that in Japan. Just "influences" can be recored back further but only from the Asian mainland. i.e. China and Korea.

Also anything formal and organized would have come much later.

[neo_dragon_kai]

any one has done chinese martial art as well as kendo the same time?

[Charlie]

WW,

I hope you enjoy judo. In my experience, they are not very compatible, but both very fun! And certainly many kendo-ka are judo students and vice-versa.

I went off on the subject at length in another thread at another web site. Here's the link:

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=19808

[Kiki]

Neil - thanks for the link. I guessed you would have some updated info waiting for me ...

Don't worry Winter_Wolf
:)

[Marine_Boy]

I have found that my aikido has helped me to hold my centre and be less afraid of my opponent in kendo. Whilst my kendo has improved on my footwork in aikido and kenjutsu.

But I still need to work on catching the timing and distance in both arts.

But I would suggest that you consult with your sensei (as you are doing already) to see if he will allow you to take another MA, even if it is a sign of respect.

Stan

[Old Warrior]

"my aikido has helped me to hold my centre and be less afraid of my opponent in kendo"

Fear is a problem in every aspect of life. But fear in an organized activity with supervision, strict rules and protective equipment is irrational.

Accept the fact you will get hit. Accept the fact you will lose. Accept the fact that there will always be someone better. Do the best you can in practice and let go of the fear. Fear will make you a prisoner. Confidence will set you free.

[Atama]

I trained a little in aikido and found it very usefull in making me more aware of my centre and my breathing, unfortunatley my knees couldn't stand up to the training. I train in boxing now and I find that they strangley compliment each other you need composure and awareness in both martial arts.

[angryshinai]

Originally posted by neo_dragon_kai
any one has done chinese martial art as well as kendo the same time?

I havnt done them at the same time but i did come to kendo after studying wing cung for just over 5 years with a year and a half away from martial arts. All together and found the different footwork very hard to overcome. I think doing both at the same time would be very difficult. I know its a little off topic but when I was studying wing chung, tai chi helped my wing chung heaps..

[nollaig]

.Quote "As an aside, the other martial art I would be taking would be Judo, but mainly for the self defense applications (and because its free!)."

As I have practiced Judo for 12 years (I began when I was 18 ) I can say unless you fall in love the judo you will hate it!

I love judo it trains the body
I love kendo it trains the mind

although I have only been at Kendo for 2 years I can see a life long love affair starting!
(don't tell my girlfriend)

I find that anytime I have a chance to train both Judo and kendo in the same week, my kendo improves
I'm more relaxed, less stressed on the Kendo dojo

When I don't my Kendo suffers.
I know for a fact I would not have enjoyed kendo when I was 18

Judo is rough and tumble
but my judo training has helped my Kendo as I am not afraid of training till I throw up

what you must decide is which art you wish to excell at.

Then use the other art to improve you Kendo (hint, hint, kendo rules!)

I hope you enjoy both arts
Noel