what means the name of the 5 guys of a kendo team?

[Inner_Silence]

i know that it comes

1 taisho
2 fukusho
3 chuken
4 jiho
5 senpo

but i dont know what this means.
i hope that some of you could give me some literal translation of this terms and a little explanation of each one..

thanks in regards.

[Masahiro]

you've got it backwards. .. it's 1)senpo, 2)jiho, 3)jiken, 4)fukusho, 5)taisho, meaning. 1)first wave, 2)after, 3)middle, 4)vice captain, and 5)captain. someone can provide you with the kanji.

[Inner_Silence]

oh thanks...

but i was wondering if the position of who goes first or who goes second or last has a meaning?

i mean, in every team each one has an estrategic mission, like in football there are the guys that deffend, there is some guys that goes way down the line to give habilitation to the front man to score and so on...

im asking this coz it happens that suddenly im captain of my kyu team, so i wanna know all about it to do not screw it up... coz i always have been a individual tournament guy, but i have little experience in team tournament. the only thing that i know is that everyone has to try to win but, maybe in a different formation it could be an advantage.

this year i had my first tournament as team captain, aka "boss", and for some of the guys it was their first tournament at all, and they where very very nervous, specially after realize that we had to fight against the stronger team of all. so what i did is, first of all give my team a little improvised speech to calm them down a little bit (like "they could take our lives, but theyll never take our freedom!!!!!!!) coz im kinda good at that stuff, and i did the first fight coz i thought that if i win it could rise the moral of the team (wich seemed to work), but after a nice start... we got our asses kicked, and you can see how the moral of the team changes as there are won or lost fights...

after that i got really, like gulty, coz i tought that if maybe i would have done a better formation, we could have get another fight won, maybe... also i was very very unconfortable coz when i was fighting the only ting in my mind was a hard pressure of winning, coz i felt responsable for my team and their moral state...
i dunno maybe i did wrong, or maybe i didnt, maybe i should have fighted last, or maybe it would lowered my moral, or maybe it would have rised it... i dunno...

hope u can give me a hand with this...

[Halcyon]

the only thing that i know is that everyone has to try to win but, maybe in a different formation it could be an advantage.
There are various schools of thought on team formation, but generally you put your strongest player as taisho. That's why that position is the captain's position. Assigning the other positions depends greatly on whether the skill levels of your players is relatively even or whether it's very varied.

For example, some teams like to put their 2nd strongest player as senpo to establish a lead (and a psychological advantage) from the beginning. Others like to put their 2nd strongest player as chuken because that's the critical turning point of a 5-man match. That is, you can lose the first two matches, but still win if you win the last three.

If the skill levels of your team members are relatively even, and on par with the other teams in the competition, you could try this formation:

senpo -- No. 4 stongest
jiho -- No. 5 strongest
chuken -- No. 2 strongest
fukusho -- No. 3 strongest
taisho -- No. 1 strongest

If your team members are relatively weak compared to other teams, you might mix things up a bit to take advantage of the fact that other teams will be using their stronger players toward the end of the lineup. The thinking is that, if you're going to lose those anyway, you might as well try to get some wins in the early rounds.

senpo -- No. 1 strongest
jiho -- No. 2 strongest
chuken -- No. 4 strongest
fukosho -- No. 3 strongest
taisho -- No. 5 strongest

But at the end of the day, the decision is up to your sensei, or whoever the highest-ranking sempai is at the tournament.

[Inner_Silence]

thnx for the info :D:D

[Ignatz]

Captain and coach are not the same thing and "boss" is certainly not a synonym for taisho.
There is a certain strategy for deciding the order of players but unless you have five good players to start with strategy is meaningless. Generally speaking the highest ranking and/or strongest player goes last but that is not carved in stone. Some think it is important to have a strong player in #1 and #3 positions first player gets you ahead and the third can keep you in the game if you lost the first two matches.
If the final is tied then each team chooses a "champion" for sudden death match. the "champion" can be any player of the five.

[Masahiro]

i'll give you a real sound advice for the mentality that these 5 player/positions should adopt.

kick the other teams ass....

regardless who's the best on the team, who's the second best, blah blah blah. in good/big dojo(s), to have a spot on the "varsity" team is an honor, you are not only fighting for yourself but also your "team". The history only records the winner...

[Koki]

Very true... But a little strategy goes a long way. Team dynamic is not like individual competition.

Moreover, whether it's team match or individual match, you should use your strengths wisely, playing your advantages against the opponent's disadvantages. Banging your head against the wall repeatedly is not always the way to go.

[mingshi]

The original meaning of the term definitely comes from the military. Senpo is the vanguard. Taisho is the master commander/ general. Taisho's "sho" is the same "sho" in Shogun.

Different coaches will have different strategy placing the positions for the team members. I am sure those with more competition experience will jump in and explain a bit. Yet the positions will not be as comparable as those in a football match. Afterall kendo is more of a co-active sport than an interactive one (in which everyone plays in the same area simutanously).

[Rurouni Kenshin]

I cant help on the 5 man Kendo formation but might give some advice on being captain and preparing for a tourney.

I know that in (most) western countries & sports it is common to try to boost the teams moral and go prepare to go in for the kill.
I do not believe in such preperation. Every teammember is different, has different things on his/her mind. Psyching them up could help the one and ruin the other. It definately will not give you a clear mind.

I always came in early and used to watch the opposition prepare for the match; I observed my opponents and tried to project myself into their actions. I know this might sound silly but it made me calm inside.
Everyone has a weak spot especially at kyu level. Know your own weak spots and learn how to protect them. Exploit the opponents weak spots.

Try to keep both feet on the ground and you wont fall - pump your self up too much, elevate the moral too much and the harder you may fall........

Enter the tournament humble, be confident with your (dis)abilities; you trained hard to be what you are. This is what you have to transmit towards your team - even the most inexperienced person on the team.
Do not feel guilty as a captain - do not get into despair after a loss - and never show any anger towards anyone. If you make a decision, at the time you found it was the correct one, so stick with it.

Even if the opponent might seem like a beast compared to you - remember Goliath......and lil David....... Ofcourse this isnt always the same outcome, but handle the same approach......
Dont be cocky, but dont give up on yourselves either......

If youre made a captain, dont try and act like one all of a sudden; you probably were elected because of being yourself in the 1st place.....so dont change.

[Shazzanzzz]

I just wanted to add, usually it depends on their personality, style, and experience level too.

1-senpo-i like to put the most aggressive, fastest person on the team here, to get the team pumped up. Also, if someone's really fast, s/he can still win even if the opponent's clearly better. Usually, 2nd or 3rd best player on the team. Sometimes very good young player or people who's very good but can't handle pressure too well.

2-jiho-i like people who can score, i don't mind losing a point in this position, but i want 2 points from this position. If I'm making the teams, usually you can count on this position winning every match.

3-chuken-The person here needs to be the rock. He needs to fight according to the flow of the team match. If he HAS to win, then he can win. If it is ok to tie and devastating to lose, then be able to tie with grace. Strongest or 2nd strongest works here. 2nd strongest if the team is strong.

4-Fuksho-Ideally, i think defensive players here work well, or people who does well against softer, less agressive players. But players who never lose is ideal here.

5-Taisho-Captain. If it's a close match, it always come down to taisho. So, your taisho better be good, able to handle any kind of styles and deal well with pressure. PRobably best to put people who can excel under pressure here.

[enkorat]

Oh ya, I looked this up once.

先鋒 senpo - advance guard
次鋒 jihou - secondary (next) guard
中堅 chuken - main body of the army
副将 fukusho - second in command
大将 taisho - general/admiral (team captain)

[Kitsune]

Reminds me somehow a chess board.

Inner, do we have clear who's going to be part of the team this year for the tournament?

[JoonShik]

I've always been the Taisho for my Youth team, and all I tell them is, tie it or win it. It works. When the other side scores, the team shouts, "get that point back", but if they lose, then just say "nice try".

Quick question though, if you were taisho, then why'd you go first?

[Ignatz]

. . .Quick question though, if you were taisho, then why'd you go first?
Taisho goes last. He doesn't understand. Generally the taisho is also the team captain, he/she goes to the captains meeting to get briefed on the rules, gives the line up to the officials etc. There is usually a "manager" who may lodge protests regarding the rgulations but not the decisions of the shinpan. The manager would be someone other than the players.
Then there is sensei.

In my case sensei might ask me what I think the line-up should be. I tell him. He might say, "How about this lineup" to which I reply, "Yes, that is much better"
Or he might say "Hmmm" and turn to one of the other seniors on the team and say "What do you think about that"
Then we will have our Japanese meetings where we arive at a consensus and then we do the whole thing over again and this time everyone says "Yes, that's good":D

[Inner_Silence]

Reminds me somehow a chess board.

Inner, do we have clear who's going to be part of the team this year for the tournament?




ahm... first thing we must know is WHEN TeH HELL is this going to happen!!!
gosh...

but, maybe well all be on vacations :D

anyway... there are gonna be 2 stages of figure it out...
firts.. the guys who are ACTUALLY going to train, and who is stronger on shiai...
but... to answer that in one word...

no :(

[Inner_Silence]

Quick question though, if you were taisho, then why'd you go first?

i explain it already.

it was about rasing the moral of the team, i wanted the first fight won at all costs, and it worked, but it was tough decition coz id first match where lost... :dead:

anyway...
so good that there are ppl here to ask :D

[Mr.Tvola]

Hello and sorry for opening an old thread.

What would be the names of players in case of team with 7 members?

Thank you very much.

[Oroshi]

There are several ways of naming players in this case, but the one I'm familiar with is:

Senpo
Jiho
Gosho
Chuken
Sansho
Fukusho
Taisho

[Mr.Tvola]

Thank you very much, Oroshi.

Sorry to ask again, I am just curious - but does "Gosho" means "fifth fighter" or something else? I am asking just if Gosho and Sanpo are not switched by mistake in your list. Thanks.

[GothMelancolia]

Seven?
Pardon my n00bish question but I only saw maximum five members in a team…. Gosho and Sansho are the reserves or there are competitions with seven people in a team ?

[Oroshi]

Sorry to ask again, I am just curious - but does "Gosho" means "fifth fighter" or something else? I am asking just if Gosho and Sanpo are not switched by mistake in your list. Thanks.
To follow the pattern of translation given above:

Senpo is "advance guard" - 先鋒
Jiho is "secondary guard" - 次鋒
Gosho is "fifth in command" - 五将
Chuken is "central body (of troops)" - 中堅
Sansho is "third in command" - 三将
Fukusho is "second in command" - 副将
Taisho is "general" - 大将

After jiho, the team counts down from the highest number until it reaches taisho. Chuken is always in the middle of the entire team.

If you hypothetically had a team with 13 members it would run senpo, jiho, juissho, jusho, kyusho, hassho, chuken, rokusho, gosho, shisho, sansho, fukusho, taisho. And so on for teams of different sizes.

[Mr.Tvola]

Oh, now I get it. Thank a lot again!!!

[Koban]

Seven?
Pardon my n00bish question but I only saw maximum five members in a team…. Gosho and Sansho are the reserves or there are competitions with seven people in a team ?

In alot of large scale taikai in Japan they have 7 members, like the Uni Taikai and the Todofuken Taikai etc. It's because of the massive amount of numbers at the taikai! But I don't know of the norm, purely because i've only seen prefectoral taikai and upwards.

[GothMelancolia]

wow.....I didn't knew that...Thank you :D