hard hitting shinai type

[Pokie]

hey guys hows things ? everyone seems to be going for dobari shinai these days...but im kinda weird i must admit...i wud like to have a shinai that is meant for those guys who like to hit hard..more like with the weight near the tip. could anyone please tell me the type of such a shinai ? im not a sadist or anything...im a real nice guy..really..i won't try to break ur men *starts drooling and mouth starts foaming* i won't ! *jumps up and faints*

[Jarlaxle]

IlKum shinai .

[Pokie]

hey i just found a fatal flaw with that kind of shinai..there's no L in japanese, unless ofcourse you made it urself..u can call it anything you want

[aru-ma]

point number on you're not supposed to hit hard, if you hit hard at your stage you're probably using too much of your arms. besides if you hit hard no matter what type of shinais you're using it wont last long.

point number 2 shinais aren't always made in japan or by japanese, there are taiwanese and korean made shinais too.

[Pokie]

ohh so many points...but wat's that i hear about some higher dans who prefer to have the weight of their shinai near the tip ? and you're not supposed to hit hard ? wudnt that affect the spirit of ur cut ? i mean..too hard is one thing..to hit like, pardon me, a girl is another thing. Wudn't that affect the commitment of ur cut ? I mean...hit hard with tenuchi at the end is ok right ? Atleast it's controlled and it dusnt go way off when you miss and it matches the intensity of ur spirit.

So..you actually believe Jarlaxle that there is an ilkum shinai ? *chukle chukle* dude...

[slidercrank]

The type of shinai you're describing is called "Chokuto" or "Koto." And you are wanting to use it for all the wrong reasons. Some high ranking senseis like to use those shinais, because the weight of the shinai is such that it inhibits the small, competition-style cuts. But it's a subtle point that's quite frankly irrelevant to you at this point of your kendo career.

Don't bother spending money on the Chokuto shinais. They don't offer anything for you. Use regular shinais and don't swing your arms hard to strike at your practice partners. The power of a cut does not come from your arms. It comes from your body. Bad techniques have nothing to do with the "spirit of cut," "intensity of spirit," or "hitting like a girl."

And yes, there is Ilkum shinai. Give google a try. You might be surprised.

[Pokie]

hahah there is ilkum shinai...sorry jarlaxle...thought that meant some sort of genitals in ur language

oh..but that's what i want...to make a small cut look obvious...especially with kote...i want to be able make the judges see and feel the cut..with heavy/hard hitting shinai, can make small cuts seem big, ok ok..i know wat ur gona say..not for my level to worry about yet, get basics first right ? See..I'm not that slow...I'm getting there

[Pokie]

oh yes..thanks for the answer..chokuto/koto, will get one..i think getting dobari shinai is actually doing u less favour than geting chokuto, talking in trying to get basics first right sense. So many beginners with dobari out there getin dobari to give them an easier cut, why not a chokuto right, improves the muscles needed for kote ? How much would chokuto be anyway ?

[Nishi]

I agree, there isnt a big deal with what shiani you use, i have both chokuto standard and koban, and dobari standard and koban, its just preference, but none has a major impact on my kendo.

You do of course have the right to feel comfortable with the shinai you are using (not to mention paying for). The style you are looking for is like slidercrank mentioned "Chokuto" or "Koto." The weight is further down the shiani, and is prefered for one shot kendo, where Dobari weight is around the hands and wrists which is helpful for nidan-waza or even renzoku-waza. "Helpful", not nessecary though.

[Pokie]

oh..i see...no major impact hrmmm...but hey thanks a lot for your answers guys...i guess..il have to experience so many different types of shinais..my standard shinai is hard enough to wave around at the moment..why worry about all the other diff types of shinais right ? i guess normal shinai is feeling too light...i want something heavier..maybe my question is wrong...maybe im not asking for a hard hitting shinai...it should have been heavy shinai.

[aru-ma]

Just to add up, as slidecrank said the different weight distribution is generaly used for shiai type cuts, to be more specific whether you use more oji or shikake waza (dont worry about this yet either).

On that point, its just the weight is distributed differently the weight is actually around 500g for a 39" shinai unless you're talking about suburi-to that can weigh up to 1.5kg but as the name says, its fo suburi only.

If your shinai feels light its most likely that its better balanced, a "heavy" shinai means that its less balanced, usuallly happens after you take the shinai apart and putting it back together.

However, your shinai can actually get heavier if you soak it in oil for too long, since it sucks the oil in.

[onitsuka]

Why will it be less balance if we put the shinai back after taking it apart? How to avoid this problem?

[aru-ma]

Originally posted by onitsuka
Why will it be less balance if we put the shinai back after taking it apart? How to avoid this problem?

That I still dont know why, it just feels "heavier" than before, unless you're making a frankenstein shinai (using surviving slabs from different shinais). I'm sure there's a way to make it more balanced I just dont know why.

[Karaken]

Originally posted by aru-ma


That I still dont know why, it just feels "heavier" than before, unless you're making a frankenstein shinai (using surviving slabs from different shinais). I'm sure there's a way to make it more balanced I just dont know why.

It's probably because your Tsuka doesn't go back all the way. If you measure Tsuru length wrapping around after you take it apart, most of times it's quite a bit shorter. One of my new shinais has such a tight Tsuka, I can't even get it off.

Just a thought - Center

[qpuppy]

well... dont think I need to say much.. Slidercrack and Aru-ma basically have point them out already.. good job guys...:)

[13th warrior]

Pokie, check out the Kyoto Eizan type shinai at www.tozando.com. I got one of these for the very same reasons like urs. I found that the difference is not that big. Chokuto is lean and slim and elegant but handles very much the same like dobari. Maybe after the 3.-4. dan, one can see the difference. If you want to have something that actually MAKES a difference to your fencing, get an oval-shaped koban shinai.
If you'r into heavy gear, try some of the Akatsukis at www.e-bogu.com or a suburi-to from them or Tozando, although you won't be allowed to use it in kotei.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Agreed most junior players won't notice too much difference between the normal cheap shinai they buy and a dobari shinai. However a proper chokuto shinai handles quite differently from a dobari shinai and I think 1 or 2 dan players should be able to easily feel the difference. I have a very nice one from Koei and frankly it feels more like a bokken than a shinai. It's very tip heavy and solid, and when I hit men it's a really solid thwack. However I feel like I'm underwater when I go to do anything that requires a sudden tip movement - it just doesn't want to respond. So I only get this one out when I want to work on my old man kendo :)