mental vs. physical kendo.

[bullet08]

the sensei that i admire the most, told me that kendo is all mental. and i can clear see that from his kendo. one has to keep heijoushin at all time. once the left fist raises due to aite's pressure, one has already lost. i'm trying to be like him as much as possible, but i know i won't get there in this life time.

how much of your kendo is mental game? i hear alot that in order to do good kendo, one shouldn't think too much. but i think there's another school of thought.

pete

[MikeW]

Well there is a difference between kendo being mental and having to think about it. Having an empty mind refers to not having to actively think about it, but the mental game IMHO, is about the pressure you apply and the conditioning your kendo mindset has to be able to react in an appropriate manner or pressure your aite to a situation you can take advantage of . If you have to actively think out what you are doing then you are at a disadvantage, if your spirit and mind are strong your actions come from your inner mind without having to actively devote your brain to it.

[Kitsune]

Well, I think kendo is most mental, you have to have zanshin all the time, you have to be alert, you have to think fast so I think Kendo is more like a chess match than a boxing match.You have to think!

[Ignatz]

I think it is like Yogi Bera said about baseball
"It's 90% mental and the other half is physical":eek:

[bullet08]

i think there's difference between making conscious decision as to which action to take and randomly reacting to given situation based on learned behavior. the action we take in kendo needs to have a reason behind that action. not just random hit at the target hoping it will go in. this decision making process will get faster as we practice kendo year after year, and at some point it will become almost like instinct and we will reach void.. or something like that.

pete

[kurisu]

You don't start off thinking 90% mental, you should start off thinking 90% physical, and as the years go by the numbers slowly shift to being more mental than physical.

[Thunder]

I agree:
The conscious process TURNING into a inate reaction is the ultimate mental goal of Kendo technique.

Repeating and repeating until you learn to forget.

Maybe in another 30 years I will be a little close to it.

[Inner_Silence]

"no mind"

it means that you shouldnt think about what movement you have to do next, instead of that you just have to do it.
lets put an example:
lets say that you have being practicing your favorite waza like for a year (as i did once), lets say it is "debana kote" (oh, what a coincidence) and some day in combat you open your kamae a little bit to create an opportunity for your oponent to attack an you can do your waza, your opponent bites it and attacks men and you think "yeah!" you hit kote and you got the ippon.
from the "no mind" point of view, this is wrong.
it should have been like this:

you have beeing pracicing debana kote, and once your opponent attacks you, you do something and do the ippon. after fight someone told you that it was debana kote.

this happen for some reason. the practice, doing the waza again and again like a million times, end up be learned in your body, rather than your mind. and when your opponent attacks, your body will react instantly "by itself" and do the kote, this happens without thinking, yo dont think "im gonna do debana kote now" you really dont think nothing at all, you just do it. this is called "conditionated reflexes".

Pele (the best football player of all times), always said that when he score a goal, he never think about how we was going to kick the ball, or where he will aim the shot. just for a fraction of second before it is done, he saw the goal done in his mind, and somehow after that second the goal was scored. This is "no mind", of course he didnt know that. (this is an example to say that you dont have to be martial artist to do so, with practice everyone can)

im sure it happen to everyone at least once, in keiko you like see it all black and is like you blink and you score the ippon and you say "what the hell happened??", or just for a fraction of second it feels like time has stopped... this is it.

for some this "mental state" shows some kind of enlightment, like a moment of clarity, that you should try to expand for more than just a fraction of second, and end up do do it at will.
once i heard someone that (im sure that it happened to all once) that somehow you could "read" the movement of your oponent, a fraction of second before he do it (you can clarily see that in the hachi-dan documental, when the guy did debana kote). it is said that with practice you can expand this moment for as long as you want and "see it all". is some kind of meditating combat.

[bullet08]

"no mind"

it means that you shouldnt think about what movement you have to do next, instead of that you just have to do it.
lets put an example:
lets say that you have being practicing your favorite waza like for a year (as i did once), lets say it is "debana kote" (oh, what a coincidence) and some day in combat you open your kamae a little bit to create an opportunity for your oponent to attack an you can do your waza, your opponent bites it and attacks men and you think "yeah!" you hit kote and you got the ippon.
from the "no mind" point of view, this is wrong.
it should have been like this:

you have beeing pracicing debana kote, and once your opponent attacks you, you do something and do the ippon. after fight someone told you that it was debana kote.

this happen for some reason. the practice, doing the waza again and again like a million times, end up be learned in your body, rather than your mind. and when your opponent attacks, your body will react instantly "by itself" and do the kote, this happens without thinking, yo dont think "im gonna do debana kote now" you really dont think nothing at all, you just do it. this is called "conditionated reflexes".

Pele (the best football player of all times), always said that when he score a goal, he never think about how we was going to kick the ball, or where he will aim the shot. just for a fraction of second before it is done, he saw the goal done in his mind, and somehow after that second the goal was scored. This is "no mind", of course he didnt know that. (this is an example to say that you dont have to be martial artist to do so, with practice everyone can)

im sure it happen to everyone at least once, in keiko you like see it all black and is like you blink and you score the ippon and you say "what the hell happened??", or just for a fraction of second it feels like time has stopped... this is it.

for some this "mental state" shows some kind of enlightment, like a moment of clarity, that you should try to expand for more than just a fraction of second, and end up do do it at will.
once i heard someone that (im sure that it happened to all once) that somehow you could "read" the movement of your oponent, a fraction of second before he do it (you can clarily see that in the hachi-dan documental, when the guy did debana kote). it is said that with practice you can expand this moment for as long as you want and "see it all". is some kind of meditating combat.

i think the final goal is 'no mind'. but there has to be different way of getting there. if we are just doing it, without any thought behind each action, that means it's just another dog salivating at sound of bell. reacting to certain situation without really understanding why.

in dojo, that is expected. we see what the sensei does, then we copy those actions as best as we can. but once outside of the dojo, we need to reflect on those lessons and find out why certain things are done in certain way. this leads to understanding of why we are doing kendo. and this understanding needs to be applied in ji-geiko, and other interactions in dojo. if we are doing something wrong, then we expect sensei to guide us. i think i have too much time on my hands..

pete

[Neil Gendzwill]

lets say that you have being practicing your favorite waza like for a year (as i did once), lets say it is "debana kote" (oh, what a coincidence) and some day in combat you open your kamae a little bit to create an opportunity for your oponent to attack an you can do your waza, your opponent bites it and attacks men and you think "yeah!" you hit kote and you got the ippon.
from the "no mind" point of view, this is wrong.
it should have been like this:

you have beeing pracicing debana kote, and once your opponent attacks you, you do something and do the ippon. after fight someone told you that it was debana kote.
So you think an instinctive reaction to your opponent's action is better kendo than creating a chance and then exploiting it? If all I'm doing is reacting, I'm going to lose. Although I agree that the sensation of seeing the flags up without really having thought about what you did is pretty cool.

[Ignatz]

So you think an instinctive reaction to your opponent's action is better kendo than creating a chance and then exploiting it? If all I'm doing is reacting, I'm going to lose. Although I agree that the sensation of seeing the flags up without really having thought about what you did is pretty cool.
I'll go you one better. I doubt that to "open your kamae a little bit to create an opportunity for your oponent to attack" is going to get you anywhere against someone higher than shodan.

The 90% half that is mental does not depend upon the other guy being dumb.

[Bennosuke]

For me right now, my mental game consists of keeping my confidence up. I'm pretty new to bogu, and thus pretty slow at making oppenings and attacking at the right time. But when I play against stronger kendoka, or more advanced kendoka, I tell myself before that match, that I won't lose. The result, is that it becomes very hard for them to create an opening, and it becomes hard for them to break my confidence, making it easy to defend. It also makes me more aggressive.

[Masahiro]

it goes without saying that the higher (rank) you advance in kendo, the more "mental" it becomes.

as for me, I might lose to someone in terms of the mastry of techniques, or just sheer number of waza(s). but I try to never lose in my desire to win, and strike them with that one hit where they'd feel it in their heart.

kendo is about striking the other person's heart, each time, every time, easier said than done.

[enkorat]

I'm wondering if other people have experienced a feeling of "separation" between thought and action. This is very hard to describe in words, and might come across as a bit kooky, but here it goes.

Sometimes when I'm fighting, I feel like I'm "seperated" from the fight a little bit, as if I were mentally one step behind my eyes. I don't think about individual mechanics when I'm fighting (which is different from when I'm practicing and I'm conciously working on a particular technique), as in "now I will do a kote men". That kind of stuff I used to do, but I don't really do anymore. The mechanics happen automatically now, without thought. I could say that my body is on autopilot, but that doesn't quite convey what I'm trying to get at.

Things that I do think about are "what are his weaknesses?", "is he tired yet?", "what is he favoring?" "how should I counter?".

Maybe this too one day will become something I can do without thought, its hard to say because it hasn't happened to me yet :)

[Charlie]

I'm at the point that when I lose a point, an exchange, a match, I can see what went wrong, frequently in terms of the mental game, which for me is often best described using the four poisons analogy. Like, I can say, "In that one, I got deceived and confused, losy my concentration, and gave up ippon." Or, "In that one, we were even until I started to lose confidence, and it affected my play." But nowhere near what you described in your first e-mail, Pete!

[Masahiro]

Enkorat, i dont know if this is what you are talking about but..

i have, how should i put it, been "out of it" during a match, like... i mentally i just "spaced out".. no thought, it was like i wasn't even there, and then at the last second, i realize my opponent is coming in for a strike, and at that moment, my body and mind snaps back into one entity (probably from some type of neuro chemicals in my brain) and execute a oji waza like debana or kaeshi, or nuki at lightening speed. afterwards, i don't know how it happened, know of no way to repeat it... (by the way, everything in front of my eyes, and my own movement seems to slow down when my body and mind comes back together while i am executing the waza...)

[enkorat]

Ya, I remember the first time I saw an opening when I was a beginner was during a particularly intense geigeiko session, and I just sort of saw the kote open. I remember thinking "its open, its so obvious its open, he has to know that its open, oh well, its not getting closed, well okay I'll hit it then, okay here it goes."

Strange thing was, that was in real time a "blink of an eye". I think some people just call it "being in the zone".

Weirdest thing tho, it happens often enough in kendo, but recently it happened in "real life". I was in a traffic accident where I hit a deer (I ended up being okay) a few months ago on the freeway. I had a rather strange reaction while my car was spinning around on the freeway, and I was going "huh, I'm spinning...well I'm about to hit the median... I don't have control of my car. Hmm, well I wonder if its my time?" I remember while it was happening I was strangely relaxed and detached from the whole thing, in a similar way to how I sometimes feel in shiai.

I had always been skeptical about samurai confronting hopeless or doomed situations with a detached almost cavalier resolution, but now I'm not so sure. I wonder if training in kendo has changed the way that I respond mentally to rapid onset stress.

[tamaki]

and what about the Eiga story?seen it?the first time he played Miyazaki,he planned (he was actually practicing it to fight him for some time)that nuki do,he did that,but the point went to Miyazaki for the men...And the second time,we wasn't planning/thinking what to do,and the kote just happened.and it was datotsu and won...

Of course now,we are not Eiga (かっこいですよね～　:tongue: ）,neither Miyazaki..They are at the point that they've practiced everything so much that it comes out instictively.

But if we don't think while we do our kendo,its never gonna get better.
I was never told that before I came to Japan.So I would just practice men cuts for an hour without thinking too much about what I do(just some basic stuff),I thought that it would naturally get better if I practiced hundreds of times,and what do I get other than muscles?And then some sensei came and told me that before each single cut I should think and check everything: left foot,right foot,left hand,chin,back,hara,contract the muscles in the butt,concentrate,and then go.He really helped me,for the first time,really.

Ps.sorry,I couldn't help letting in the girly comment for Eiga ;)

[Alexandrinus]

You get this 'passive watching your own moves' feeling very often if you practice running over a good distance(runners high)...its like meditation (ZEN).

And you get this in accidents or very stressfull actions (like car accidents).

I think these things comes from adrenaline wich causes some kind of flush in your brain.

For myself i notice it wasnt good for my reactions in critical situations.
But it must be fantastic to use this flush and all the kendo waza's comes out of you without even thinking,must be a higher level of doing it.

[Charlie]

Weirdest thing tho, it happens often enough in kendo, but recently it happened in "real life". I was in a traffic accident where I hit a deer (I ended up being okay) a few months ago on the freeway. I had a rather strange reaction while my car was spinning around on the freeway, and I was going "huh, I'm spinning...well I'm about to hit the median... I don't have control of my car. Hmm, well I wonder if its my time?" I remember while it was happening I was strangely relaxed and detached from the whole thing, in a similar way to how I sometimes feel in shiai.

I had always been skeptical about samurai confronting hopeless or doomed situations with a detached almost cavalier resolution, but now I'm not so sure. I wonder if training in kendo has changed the way that I respond mentally to rapid onset stress.

Dude! I'd say you're doing something right. Kendo and budo has definitely made me more relaxed, more confident, more courageous and decisive in everyday life, but I don't know how I'd do in a similar situation. I'd say you really are internalizing your lessons well!

Here's what I'm thinking often enough during a match, all in the matter of moments.

"we're even... ai-uchi... no winner... what do I try next... what's open... what can I MAKE open... let's try this... it didn't work... let's try this... damn... what's open... what can I make open... let's try this..."

And eventually this can lead to:

"Dammit, I can't win... what do I have to do to get ippon... shoot, I can't seem to get through... I wish this would just end - NO! MUST. KEEP. TRYING."

It's that "must keep trying" that has been a good mental breakthrough for me.

[Charlie]

Ps.sorry,I couldn't help letting in the girly comment for Eiga ;)

Haha! What was it? "He's so dreamy" or the like? :D

[Masahiro]

....that nuki do.....

it wasn't nuki doh, it was men kaeshi doh Eiga practice. and Miyazaki's shinai did hit Eiga's shinai, not his men, but the judges still gave Miyazaki the point.

[tamaki]

Haha! What was it? "He's so dreamy" or the like? :D

(かこい）kakoi= literally it means cool,but its like,you say it for a man you like( if its used for women,its not so good I guess,it takes away the feminity)

[tamaki]

it wasn't nuki doh, it was men kaeshi doh Eiga practice. and Miyazaki's shinai did hit Eiga's shinai, not his men, but the judges still gave Miyazaki the point.

Nuki or kaeshi,that wasn't the point in my post!And I think everybody that saw it probably thought that technically the point should go to Eiga,but still Miyazaki's men took the point.That is the topic's discussion about and what I was trying to say...

[Hisham]

You don't start off thinking 90% mental, you should start off thinking 90% physical, and as the years go by the numbers slowly shift to being more mental than physical.

I totally agree, just keep on practicing with the required criteria always in check, the "mental" will naturally take over your kendo.

I've got a question: without the jigeiko and shiai "laboratories", is there anyway to work on this aspect of kendo?
yes i'm desperate.

[bullet08]

I've got a question: without the jigeiko and shiai "laboratories", is there anyway to work on this aspect of kendo?
yes i'm desperate.

i was told to treat every drill as seriously as possible. even kihon waza. ask the training partner to come in with full speed and see if the waza that i'm working on is correct and is working as it should.

pete

[tamaki]

i was told to treat every drill as seriously as possible. even kihon waza. ask the training partner to come in with full speed and see if the waza that i'm working on is correct and is working as it should.

pete

thats true,but without shiai (and jikeiko) you cannot practice how to mentally "invade" your opponent,how to control your feelings/reactions etc etc.

[bullet08]

thats true,but without shiai (and jikeiko) you cannot practice how to mentally "invade" your opponent,how to control your feelings/reactions etc etc.

yes, that's why shiai is important part of kendo. ji-geiko, and other things in dojo does not provide that certain something which brings out all the things that needs to be fixed, even if you take is as seriously as possible.

pete

[Charlie]

I totally agree, just keep on practicing with the required criteria always in check, the "mental" will naturally take over your kendo.

I've got a question: without the jigeiko and shiai "laboratories", is there anyway to work on this aspect of kendo?
yes i'm desperate.

Well, are there ways you can practice more often? Before I had children I was more flexible in my time. I would meet with a handful of friends from the club to practice kata in the park*, or shinai kendo in a racquetball court (rentable; everybody throws in a couple bucks and, bam, practice space), what have you. We even get up butt-early one morning a week to practice before work (haven't been able to do this lately since we have a new baby). My point is, if you have two people and some grass/wood floor, you can practice.








*This was often interesting, especially if a couple of dudes were out drinking 40s out of a paper bag watching. "Whatchu guys doing?"

"Kendo!"

"Baaaaad ass!"

:D

[Koki]

You can practice by yourself. All you need is a shinai, a good pair of shoes, and a home-made dummy.

[Charlie]

True, Koki. True. I meant you can always practice invading, seme, attacking, timing, etc. with a partner.

[tamaki]

isn't kendo something that you need a partner to practice it?I mean,of course,your mistakes/waza/ashisabaki etc you can/have to practice alone to fix them,but the mental game cannot be done without an opponent.and how would kendo be without that　(心）　?

[Masahiro]

oh no, kendo as we know it is an art. ... pepople even practice "metsuke" when they are on the john's staring into the naked wall in front ot them. .. ... hahahahahahahah.

[kurisu]

Here's a little passage, from one of my favorite sources, concerning this topic:

The two characters that form the word keiko mean 'to think' and 'the past'. Put together they form
the word, which means 'to work out and study the teachings of the past'. Hence the action of
thinking is very much part of this word. Besides the word keiko as distinct from shiai, we also
use the word Renshu to mean training as such, bus in kendo the word keiko with the meaning 'to
think' or to 'deliberate and develop’ being the most important requirement is also adopted and is
more profound in meaning. At this point is must be emphasised that, especially for the beginner,
too much thinking is to be avoided as this tends to result in constricted techniques, confusion and
hampered progress. For at least the first year or two, in order just to become accustomed to
kendo itself, it is best to simply follow unquestioningly the way one is taught and just try to
practice as often as possible, by increasing the number of times one practices waza will develop
naturally, and without being aware of it oneself progress will be achieved. Again, as waza
develops, doubt and dissatisfaction will arise and these problems will require much thought and
consideration in order to be answered which in turn will give birth to further progress.
Even so there are some who despite years of training give not even the slightest thought to any
problem but continue to train in a purely mechanical way; of such people not much progress can
be expected. Keiko is a matter of physical and mental endeavour. In sum, it is a question of
applying the mind and multiplying the number of times one trains. By applying ones mind alone
or by simply multiplying the times one trains, one cannot hope to make good progress. The two
must go hand in hand.

[Hisham]

Thanks for the answers guys.


ask the training partner to come in with full speed and see if the waza that i'm working on is correct and is working as it should.

pete

The problem is i got no partners and there are no dojo here. My attempts to get people i know into kendo have failed because out here it's all about what can be used in the street......etc Anyway that's another story.

I guess i'll just concentrate on what i learned in the two years and half at the university of Montreal dojo and work more on my communication skills.

Back to the subject.

[bullet08]

The problem is i got no partners and there are no dojo here. My attempts to get people i know into kendo have failed because out here it's all about what can be used in the street......etc Anyway that's another story.

that's tough situation. i started kendo in 93, then i stopped for 3 yrs.. picked it back up at 96, then stopped till 2004. kendo dojo are hard to find. and driving long distance just sucks (3 hr each way). why not pick up other martial art until you find kendo again? aikido can be very interesting if you can find a good sensei.

pete

[Hisham]

why not pick up other martial art until you find kendo again? aikido can be very interesting if you can find a good sensei.

pete

I actually started training in Wing Chun which is another interesting MA.

Sorry again for the thread drift.

[ahmed61086]

Have you guys ever gone for a strike, and can swear that you were actually watching yourself doing it from an angle?! This a happened to me a few times, and is realy weird. Like an out of body experience. I also had the slow motion experience, and the mind snapping back into the body thing, and also the no-mind, cant remember what I did thing. So weird right? I dont even know what to call them. But I was sort of used to this type of stuff, because it used to happen to me when I played basketball.:evolved:

[ahmed61086]

Here's a little passage, from one of my favorite sources, concerning this topic:

The two characters that form the word keiko mean 'to think' and 'the past'. Put together they form
the word, which means 'to work out and study the teachings of the past'. Hence the action of
thinking is very much part of this word. Besides the word keiko as distinct from shiai, we also
use the word Renshu to mean training as such, bus in kendo the word keiko with the meaning 'to
think' or to 'deliberate and develop’ being the most important requirement is also adopted and is
more profound in meaning. At this point is must be emphasised that, especially for the beginner,
too much thinking is to be avoided as this tends to result in constricted techniques, confusion and
hampered progress. For at least the first year or two, in order just to become accustomed to
kendo itself, it is best to simply follow unquestioningly the way one is taught and just try to
practice as often as possible, by increasing the number of times one practices waza will develop
naturally, and without being aware of it oneself progress will be achieved. Again, as waza
develops, doubt and dissatisfaction will arise and these problems will require much thought and
consideration in order to be answered which in turn will give birth to further progress.
Even so there are some who despite years of training give not even the slightest thought to any
problem but continue to train in a purely mechanical way; of such people not much progress can
be expected. Keiko is a matter of physical and mental endeavour. In sum, it is a question of
applying the mind and multiplying the number of times one trains. By applying ones mind alone
or by simply multiplying the times one trains, one cannot hope to make good progress. The two
must go hand in hand.

This is a realy great explaination. Wow, got everyting into such a small amount of space. Thanks so much.

[Charlie]

Have you guys ever gone for a strike, and can swear that you were actually watching yourself doing it from an angle?! This a happened to me a few times, and is realy weird. Like an out of body experience. I also had the slow motion experience, and the mind snapping back into the body thing, and also the no-mind, cant remember what I did thing. So weird right? I dont even know what to call them. But I was sort of used to this type of stuff, because it used to happen to me when I played basketball.:evolved:

Not really out of body but I have had "anime moments:" what I see is happening clearly, all kinds of black motion lines are swooshing around my waza as it hurtles in slow motion to its target, the shinai hits, bends, and then everything speeds up into normal time again.

Probably too many comic books, for me!

[ahmed61086]

Not really out of body but I have had "anime moments:" what I see is happening clearly, all kinds of black motion lines are swooshing around my waza as it hurtles in slow motion to its target, the shinai hits, bends, and then everything speeds up into normal time again.

Probably too many comic books, for me!

Haha, nice.

[GreenArrow]

I'm wondering if other people have experienced a feeling of "separation" between thought and action. This is very hard to describe in words, and might come across as a bit kooky, but here it goes.

Sometimes when I'm fighting, I feel like I'm "seperated" from the fight a little bit, as if I were mentally one step behind my eyes. I don't think about individual mechanics when I'm fighting (which is different from when I'm practicing and I'm conciously working on a particular technique), as in "now I will do a kote men". That kind of stuff I used to do, but I don't really do anymore. The mechanics happen automatically now, without thought. I could say that my body is on autopilot, but that doesn't quite convey what I'm trying to get at.

Things that I do think about are "what are his weaknesses?", "is he tired yet?", "what is he favoring?" "how should I counter?".

Maybe this too one day will become something I can do without thought, its hard to say because it hasn't happened to me yet :)

Kooky- no. Definately not.

I'm going to stick my neck out here.

You will hear from athletes about the "zone." This seems a similar concept and sensation of "separateness"- that of no mind but working perfectly. Others talk about being in "flow-" basically you are doing something and everything is perfect- total detachment yet total involvement and the skill side is totally subconscious.

OK, I've got to confess I have a Western perspective here- but I also shoot a (compound) bow and now work extensively on the mental aspects of the thing. The top target archers (and rifle shooters) DO find that space/emptiness and detachment- aiming too consciously and thinking about the target is BAD for any projectile sport!.

I've only been there a couple of times, but there is a total detachment- in archery the gold suddenly expands and you cannot but hit the centre- yet are totally unaware of shot execution or anything else going on around you (even the wind or the noise you bow makes on shot- I had to check I'd actually shot when I dropped out of it!). Wierd- bit unsettling too. Oh, and the arrows were perfect tiny group in dead centre but that's just an aside.

This whole thing about the "zone" and the balance of skiil, conscious mind and subconscious required to achieve it on a more regular basis than the odd experience that I highlight above has been studied in Western sport- an author called Lanny Bassham writes extensively. I do see parallels with the Eastern tradition- however the terminology (and even the acceptance) is different.

The same emphasis on the basic skills (repetition of a move so it is perfect in the muscle memory and subconscious) combined with a state of mind. It takes many years to be able to get the balance perfect such that you act form the "zone" all the time you do your sport- only the top guys are there at all and even then not always. For most of us on the way up the mountain it is only an occasional experience! BUT- it does show what can result form years of corrrect traiing and practice.

OK, I'm probably going to get flamed/bad rep points :hurt: for saying all this and daring to have an opinion when I am not a high-rank Kendo sensei :rolleyes: but I am increasingly beginning to suspect that what the top western athletes and top martial arts practitioners have found is a similar thing- just expressed differently and focused differerently in different cultures. We are all fundamentally the same species after all.:shocked:

However, the positive side of this similarity is that some of us in the West may find insight into the mental side of any martial art by looking at some mental prep books by western athletes- in particular from sports like rifle shooting. The terminology is more familiar and maybe therefore more accessible?

I guess it's the difference between trying to explain colloquial remarks in a different language- complex concepts do not always translate.

I hope that is of some interest.

[Vincent]

(かこい）kakoi= literally it means cool,but its like,you say it for a man you like( if its used for women,its not so good I guess,it takes away the feminity)

The one and only meaning in japanese of "かこい=kakoi" is fence or stockade...
If you live in japan you should make efforts to learn the language in order to get accepted by the people there.
By the way, the word you wanted to write is かっこいい=kakkoii(kakko or kakkou=appearance, look, shape; ii=good), which means cool, or good looking, not just looks, but actions, deeds, or even somebody's personality. The exact meaning depends on the situation. It could be an honest praise for girls as well, if for example it's about their kendo. If it's about their looks, that's really not something for them to be proud of.
Tamaki, please refrain from japanese definitions before learning the language!

[tamaki]

The one and only meaning in japanese of "かこい=kakoi" is fence or stockade...
If you live in japan you should make efforts to learn the language in order to get accepted by the people there.
By the way, the word you wanted to write is かっこいい=kakkoii(kakko or kakkou=appearance, look, shape; ii=good), which means cool, or good looking, not just looks, but actions, deeds, or even somebody's personality. The exact meaning depends on the situation. It could be an honest praise for girls as well, if for example it's about their kendo. If it's about their looks, that's really not something for them to be proud of.
Tamaki, please refrain from japanese definitions before learning the language!

Vincent,please refrain from coming so fast to conclusions about people you know shit about and if they are accepted/make efforts on something or whatever!

If you see my first post,
("Of course now,we are not Eiga (かっこいですよね～　:p ）")
you can check the っ...I didn't give so much importance to the japanese word itself ,just wanted to explain the meaning to the person that asked for it.I don't think that everyone here (in the forum)cares about the missing っ and いanyway.Just wanted to say that Eiga looks good,wth!

I don't see the point why you made a lecture out of it.Of course everybody who comes in Japan,some words you learn even if you know nothing, is kakkoi and kawaii.Yeah and thank you very much ,we know the meaning depending on the situations...

As for me here,I am accepted more than well,and not because of my spelling skills.My nihongo level is about 2kyuu but even if I do mistakes（because I do-I dont really care about mistakes when I am in a interesting conversation,as long as we're understood and the mood is good.It'd be like I am trying to make a nihongo teacher out of my japanese friends.NG.).We're not Todai ,but I don't think the people here are so stupid as to judge somebody from their forgotten っ in かっこいい.(It sounds when you pronounce it anyway).
You gain respect here from going to bukatsu every day,from playing your heart out ,from keeping the rules of the game in Japan and not trying to stick out with the "I'm a gaijin,I can get away with everything" attitude ,from being a worthy friend and reliable drinkmate,from not thinking highly of yourself etc..
Living with them is more important than being stuck in the dictionary (and lecturing people on the spelling of the word kakkoi in a kendo forum,) btw.

ところで。。。You have just 1 post,in kendo-world,and its about the word kakkoi?? Just signed up for that?Too much free time,huh?

[Vincent]

You gain respect here from going to bukatsu every day,from playing your heart out ,from keeping the rules of the game in Japan and not trying to stick out with the "I'm a gaijin,I can get away with everything" attitude ,from being a worthy friend and reliable drinkmate,from not thinking highly of yourself etc..


As I read, you are a bekka sei now. It looks like drinking equals kendo for you.
You write about "not trying to stick out". Let me ask you a question! When you go to see the tournaments with all the japanese students (I heard from my former bekkasei friend that you do this from time to time) do you wait for the end of the tournament before going out to eat lunch? Couse I heard that nobody can leave before the 4th year sempais say so, even if you are dying of starvation. As reading your posts, you write so much about mentality of Kendo that I can't think of anything else, that the real you is just the opposite. So I would bet a huge amount of money that you are going out the eat even before your team lost, just like all the other bekkasei. And that's a HUGE STANDING OUT of the group, couse with things like this you tell them that you don't give a shit about japanese customs, or kendo. Tell me if I am wrong, but I don't think so. And don't tell me why I am I asking about having lunch or not during a taikai, because it was just an example. Of course this one in itself wont be a big truble, but people like you are like this in all aspects of life, being a good mate when drinking (well, who the f'ck can't do that?!!!), but when it's about suffering like all the others, you just live them!!!
You should only answer yourself about this question, couse I don't care if you are really like this or not, but you should think of your actions and than talk about anything.

[tamaki]

As I read, you are a bekka sei now. It looks like drinking equals kendo for you.
You write about "not trying to stick out". Let me ask you a question! When you go to see the tournaments with all the japanese students (I heard from my former bekkasei friend that you do this from time to time) do you wait for the end of the tournament before going out to eat lunch? Couse I heard that nobody can leave before the 4th year sempais say so, even if you are dying of starvation. As reading your posts, you write so much about mentality of Kendo that I can't think of anything else, that the real you is just the opposite. So I would bet a huge amount of money that you are going out the eat even before your team lost, just like all the other bekkasei. And that's a HUGE STANDING OUT of the group, couse with things like this you tell them that you don't give a shit about japanese customs, or kendo. this one in itself wont be a big truble, but people like you are like this in all aspects of life, being a good mate when drinking (well, who the f'ck can't do that?!!!), but when it's about suffering like all the others, you just live them!!!
You should only answer yourself about this question, couse I don't care if you are really like this or not, but you should think of your actions and than talk about anything.

Drinking and kendo go well together in Japan,but that's irrelevant to your clueless post against me.Just come and see,but I'm sure that you've already came here and completely wasted time with a way of thinking like that.

As for the question that you brought up,yeah of course I'm not gonna waste the time to answer to you because I have more important things to do and I don't feel I have to explain myself.The people who are here know how it is.

And you should learn the word "leave" first and then tell me if I "live' my kendo friends.I never left anyone,to the point that I could as a bekka.I'm 25,I worked and saved money to come here,so I don't have the luxury of time and money to f*ck anything up in my stay here or make it more difficult than it already is.

As for the senpai,there are somethings that even if we want to do,they say we dont have to,because we're not normal students.I guess we'd all love to be treated like normal members of the kendobu,and some of us try to act like that(For example,when one day you cannot go training.The japanese write on the white board their name and reason,and I did the same when one day I couldn't go,and they told me I definitely don't need to do so,because I'm a bekka),but the same reaction isn't coming from all of them too.When I said stick out,I did refer to more important things in the kendojo.The only way that we can show them that we give a shit is to go train every single day.So,of course there is some discrimination(bad sometimes,or good) but it comes from the japanese students too,and it depends on the person.

As for me and my viewing of kendo from the mentality point,why should I lie about that?And I write about it because I am just trying to help when somebody asks for advice/opinions.(That's what this forum REALLY is for).Anyway,the mentality thing is only for me and my kendo and I don't think I have to explain myself to any loser on the net that doesn't understand.I know about my actions and if they agree with what I say.As for you looks like you have serious issues.Trying to point the finger to other people in such an immature way..Work/train more,get more experiences and understanding.Its like you can't see the forest for the trees..