Kenshi or Kendoka

[bluerecords]

hello,

I never made a big thing about it. sometimes I used the word kenshi and sometimes kendoka.

Since a very important sensei nearby started a thread with one of our students I would like to hear your opinions about it.

What should be the right expression to describe us, who we are practicing the art of kendo in our dojos?

kenshi or kendoka?

best regards

[bullet08]

hello,

I never made a big thing about it. sometimes I used the word kenshi and sometimes kendoka.

Since a very important sensei nearby started a thread with one of our students I would like to hear your opinions about it.

What should be the right expression to describe us, who we are practicing the art of kendo in our dojos?

kenshi or kendoka?

best regards

when i refer to myself, i used kendoka. if i'm referring to anyone else, i use kenshi.

pete

[Mike Molloy]

FWIW I recall some years ago my (Japanese) sempai mentioning that nobody in Japan uses the term "Kendoka".

I used to get upset at the appellation "kendo player" as I don't believe one "plays" kendo (in the same way that you play tennis or golf). These days I use the term myself as I can't think of anything more apt.

[ne0r]

I think kendoka is correct 100%ly.

But kenshi somehow feels romantic to me, so I like to use it from time to time ;D

[ReKru]

There was a discussion here about this already:

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11233

No really real conclusion there, either, but the trend seems to go against using "kendoka".

And as in all questions of international importance, where one can't get a definite answer, personally I would avoid japanese terminology that I'm not super confident I know what it means (so basically ANYTHING japanese) with japanese people I've never met before.

[kartoffelngeist]

I think we've had some interesting discussions before about 'playing' kendo.
In what way don't we play it the same way as, say golf? I'm just thinking out loud here, not sure if I agree with myself yet, but golf has its own rules of etiquette, its own terminology, lots of people find it relaxing or what not. I wonder if it's fundamentally not that different to kendo in a lot of ways...

Hmmmmm...

To answer the question though, I've always used kendoka. Partly because I think kenshi (working on the translation of 'swordsman' or thereabouts) isn't always very accurate as a lot of kendo practitioners would probably have no contact with swords.
Also, kenshi always makes me think of Mortal Kombat (in which he is, incidentally, the best character).

[akumalkenshi]

in spanish the word "kendoka" makes people relate it to kendo. it would be the result of the castellanization of the terminology ex. karate-karateca.

So kendoka, sort of makes sense as to describe in spanish a kendo practitioner.

But as stated earlier, kenshi sounds more nostalgic, historical, romantic, etc....

[Toshiro Mifune]

I agree Kendoka is 100% correct the word kenshi I think more of a swordsman that is not of samurai nobility. But far as I checked there technically aren't any real samurai in the age we live in now. Don't get offended I mean samurai in literally having a shogun, daimyo,lord and all historical samurai stuff. I have heard the word kenshi sometimes used but generally by people who practice more than one sword art. Kendo, iaido, batto-do, bushido, etc.

[ScottUK]

I don't make a difference between kendoka and kenshi. I don't like kendoist though...

[MikeH]

I've seen similar discussions on aikido forums when asking about whether people should be called aikidoka or not. A common thought in that discussion was that the suffix -ka in Japanese is usually used to refer to someone who does that as their profession. So a professional aikido teacher would be an aikidoka but an amateur would not. I suppose that likewise a kendoka might be something used for a professional kendo teacher. Not sure though not speaking Japanese myself.

Mike

[ahmed61086]

I don't make a difference between kendoka and kenshi. I don't like kendoist though...

I dont see why anyone should dislike this word, other than it sounds a little wierd. It is taking the word, and putting and English ending to it. Ka and shi are not english(obviously Kendo isn't an english word either.....), while ist is. Kendoist, Kumdoist, ect. It makes sense, to a degree. My Sabaunim actually uses it. He say's Kumdoist, and just like other mentioned, Kumdo/kendo player, just doesn't realy work well, because we dont play. We fight to the death. :cool2:

[Anonymous]

because we dont play. We fight to the death. :cool2:



Because there can be only one highlander!

[Po5i]

I preffer kenshi because it has a deeper meaning: knight of the sword

[Halcyon]

I preffer kenshi because it has a deeper meaning: knight of the sword
I think you may have read one too many manga.

[Ignatz]

How about Shinaist, like the Duke in "The Shootist"?

[Kapplow]

I think it depends on who you are talking to.

[ne0r]

I think we've had some interesting discussions before about 'playing' kendo.
In what way don't we play it the same way as, say golf? I'm just thinking out loud here, not sure if I agree with myself yet, but golf has its own rules of etiquette, its own terminology, lots of people find it relaxing or what not. I wonder if it's fundamentally not that different to kendo in a lot of ways...

Recently there was a snooker presentation in my English class. I found out that respect, fairness and such and even being clothed properly play a big part in snooker. Sounds similar to kendo, to an extent
^^

Shall we start a poll?
I take kenshi ;D

[ScottUK]

I'm for 'Kensei'... :D Naah, kenshi is cool.

[Po5i]

I think you may have read one too many manga.

In fact, what I said comes from a japanese woman who visited a dojo in our country, when I visited them the sensei told me about that meaning.

[Kitsune]

I like them both, but I think Kenshi is more for the one who's learning kendo and your classmates and Kendoka is for the one who's already a sensei... Someone told me that long time ago.

[Dervish]

I've had the tendency to use the word kendoka (mentally, for the most part), but I like the word Kenshi more. :)

[Nanbanjin]

I like the word "kenshi" because it reminds me of girls with prominent eye-teeth.

[Hisham]

What about kenshidoka, i wonder if it can mean anything in japanese?:calm: i myself like kengo, but i guess there's no way we can use it nowadays, the only people who might do so would be ones who suffer from samyurininjerrithis.

[Fonsz]

I like the word "kenshi" because it reminds me of girls with prominent eye-teeth.
You have to elaborate on this one because I don't get it.

[Nanbanjin]

You have to elaborate on this one because I don't get it.

剣士 kenshi - kendoist
犬歯 kenshi - canine tooth (eye tooth)

I love Japanese girls with big eye teeth.

[Ignatz]

Used to be considered very attractive.

[Kitsune]

剣士 kenshi - kendoist
犬歯 kenshi - canine tooth (eye tooth)

I love Japanese girls with big eye teeth.


eye teeth is the same than canine???

[ManyRoses]

I always thought that kenshi was only used when referring to an experienced kendoka. I never use it because I think that it sounds a bit pretentious, not to offend anyone who uses the word. That is just my opinion. Don't flame me. please. pretty please?

[Kenzan]

I like the word "kenshi" because it reminds me of girls with prominent eye-teeth.

Kenzan sees what you did there.
:D

[Frame]

obviously Kendo isn't an english word either.....

the word, kendo is actually in the english dictionary, making it and english word, regardless of the language it was originally from.

[Fudo-Shin]

Which Dictionary is that?

[ScottUK]

Oxford English Dictionary:

'Kendo' - ORIGIN Japanese, ‘sword way’

• noun - a Japanese form of fencing with two-handed bamboo swords.

[johnkichu]

An interesting discussion. I never thought about the difference before. I like the connotation that kenshi has, but I guess since we no longer fight with real swords and kill each other, we should use kendoka.

[Mokuso]

I thought Kenshi refers to Swordsman or fencer

and Kendoka being the Kendo practitioner to be exact

[Benkei]

Kenshi is more polite then Kendoka. The characters used to render the different endings illustrate the differences in the meaning. There is nothng wrong with the term kendoka, it's just more of a generic term meaning "practioner of kendo".

[Kuma]

Could you please elaborate, Benkei? What are the differences of which you speak? How is kendoka more generic than kenshi if it solely refers to kendo whereas kenshi is for swordswomen/swordsmen in general and does not refer to a specific sword art?

I find this topic fascinating as I have a great interest in etymology. I would like to see a poll, but I doubt that it would be any more informative than this discussion is already.

Interestingly, I find myself leaning towards kendoka for the same reasons that most people seem to prefer not to use it. I am trying not to romanticize my kendo with notions of martial skill. I find that it helps me to focus on the moment, rather than on some dream of being a great kendoka someday.

[Karaken]

Could you please elaborate, Benkei? What are the differences of which you speak? How is kendoka more generic than kenshi if it solely refers to kendo whereas kenshi is for swordswomen/swordsmen in general and does not refer to a specific sword art?

I find this topic fascinating as I have a great interest in etymology. I would like to see a poll, but I doubt that it would be any more informative than this discussion is already.

Interestingly, I find myself leaning towards kendoka for the same reasons that most people seem to prefer not to use it. I am trying not to romanticize my kendo with notions of martial skill. I find that it helps me to focus on the moment, rather than on some dream of being a great kendoka someday.

I don't know it really goes that deep. I think it's more to do with how ancient society treated various professions. Ka was associated, for example, with artisans like Painters, Musicians and Fortune tellers. It was mainly for skilled people which were not highly raked in old society. Shi, however, was a level up association with Teachers, Police, Lawyers, etc.. Normally, a profession was associated with one or the other. The fact that we have Kendo Practioner in both ways ( Shi & Ka ) is a strange exception.

[Kuma]

Well, from that description, it seems clear that anyone other than sensei would be more correctly described as kendoka. Unless you are completely unskilled (like myself), in which case you could probably just call yourself a kendo player.:D

I wonder whether people like myself generally prefer kendo player or kendo playa? Subject for a different thread, I suppose.