Do Buttons

[D'Artagnan]

I am trying to gather some info regarding those little buttons you can get for your Do Himo.

I have them on mine and i think they're great. The cut down on the time it takes me to put on my Bogu, and they make sure that i wear my Do at a consistant, comfortable height each session. Also i no longer have to stop during Keiko to re-tie them, and in my opinion they look neat and tidy. However, i am told that these will have to be removed for my grading (Ikkyu @ Stoke) as they are not approved of. But i don't really understand why. I am fairly new to kendo, as you can probably tell, and would like to know if it is something i'm missing. I have heard before that they are un tradidional and that is perhaps why. But upon studying 16th Century Japanese armour, the do is attached by a toggle through a loop, very similar to buttons on Do Himo for Kendo.

Please understand i am not trying to argue or disrupt, and i am not saying that my perspective is correct. I am just trying to understand the conflicting perspective. There are many things in Kendo that are based on a perspective or opinion that is not the same as my my own, these thing aren't for me to argue, but for me to accept, understand and respect. And i will do what i takes to improve my Kendo.

i hope someone can help.

Cheers

[JSchmidt]

The buttons are mainly meant for children, as far as I understand.
Part of the grading requirement is that you are capable of wearing your uniform and bogu neat and properly..having buttons is an indication that you can't do that.

Jakob

[D'Artagnan]

Thank you for replying

Now i understand. That's cool, i'll take them off.

Cheers

[taiwnezboi]

The armor that we order from our dojang has the buttons on them.

[mingshi]

Originally posted by D'Artagnan
However, i am told that these will have to be removed for my grading (Ikkyu @ Stoke) as they are not approved of. But i don't really understand why.

What's wrong with the Do buttons???

WHO said they are not allowed??? I did my grading (especially at the WKC with all Japanese grading panel) and everything else with them. No one said a word.

I have mine on all the time since the day I bought my bogu. It took a hard time to get them thru the Himo... so I am not planning to have them removed!!:D

[m_french]

Do buttons....now those ARE pretty.:beard:

[Neil Gendzwill]

I don't have a problem with them personally but if you ever get some hardline sensei they will tell you to remove them.

[PhilMcLaughlin]

D'artagnon

Best thing, ask the chief sensei on the saturday seminar (yo ARE coming of course ?)

plenty of time to get them sorted out if you need to

good luck with the grading

cheers

[JSchmidt]

"WHO said they are not allowed??"

Uhmm that's not what he said..he said "not approved of"...in anycase, you're now shodan and can't tie your own do-himo?.

Jakob

[iwatekenshi]

When I traveled to Italy on a kendo tour with friends who are senseis of mine. I was surprised to see these DO buttons some Italian kenshi were wearing. I didn't know what to make of it, but my teachers that I traveled with suggested to them that they should learn to put the DO on properly without the use of them.
These DO buttons might look "cool" in the Western aesthetic sense but they are absolutely not necessary.

[D'Artagnan]

Thanks Everyone for thier replies

I think i'll take them off for now, just to be on the safe side. Then wrestle with them to get them back onto the himo afterwards. Besides I don't want to risk anything. I imagine I will be nervous enough without having to worry about whether or not i should be wearing them.

Cheers everyone

A

[Hai_hai]

Ah so so so. Replace with gum-drop buttons. ^_^

[Kendoka]

Originally posted by D'Artagnan
Thanks Everyone for thier replies

I think i'll take them off for now, just to be on the safe side. Then wrestle with them to get them back onto the himo afterwards. Besides I don't want to risk anything. I imagine I will be nervous enough without having to worry about whether or not i should be wearing them.

Cheers everyone

A

Good decision. They are for kids and showoffs.

Richard

[iwatekenshi]

Originally posted by Kendoka


Good decision. They are for kids and showoffs.

Richard

YUP :beard:

[kancho]

Yesterday was my first time wearing bogu but my sensei said to use the DO buttons. I am not a kid and I am no showoff.

[Hai_hai]

Unfortunately, the world revolves around kendoka so that would make you a showoff. I'm sorry but that's the way it is.

Man, I hate showoffs.

[Karaken]

Originally posted by iwatekenshi


YUP :beard:

You will find many more do buttons in Korea or Kumdo dojo though. Almost all Bogu comes with free do buttons - of course this is the country who invented velcro Hakama..:-)

Center

[Nishi]

The same sensei that dismiss "Doh" buttons will also dismiss fancy coloured "Doh". Bogu protects the body and allows us to train, thats all.

Doh-buttons are very helpful for youngsters and beginners because the sensei dosnt need to worry about starting and stopping class due to ill-tied doh-himo. But eventually kenshi needs to know how to tie all himo so it never comes undone.

[xvikingx]

Yes you should know how to tie your himo properly. Other than that I say listen to your sensei. If he is alright with them then who cares what anybody else says.

[KOMA]

If your happy with the buttons then I think you should use them.
besides you can always have two Himo. One with buttons and one without buttons.

[louisvandalen]

I got them to, 4 of them to be on the safe side. They are really nice and silver collored. The only thing that really annoyed me is that up untill now I never managed to get them on the himo. The holes where just not big enough to get the things trough.

Anyone know a place where I can get that fixed, seem to always loose my do halfway trough class.

Best Regards,
Louis

www.uiteindhoven.nl (http://www.uiteindhoven.nl)

[taganahan]

i never had the oppurtunity to use and even see one of them, except on the internet. besides, you wanna look professional without the training wheels on.:)

~taganahan

[PhilMcLaughlin]

Take them off and demonstrate that you know to tie your bogu properly

how many high grade sensei do you see waering Them ?

it may seem like a minor point BUT minor points matter (a lot)

better to tie your do rather than use gadets

in your grading - use every opportunity to show that you understand why some things are dne ' the hard way'

good luck

Phil..

[KOMA]

it took me a long time to put them on so I think I will keep them on, untill I told to take them off.

[Andoru]

I'm too dumb to figure out how to tie doh himo with the buttons on.... :D

[taganahan]

me, i'm too ignorant not to see one...lol......:ko:

~taganahan

[DCPan]

I've seen some sensei with arthritis in the joints (finger & shoulder, etc) use the doh buttons.

I've considered using them a while back...tried it once...but the incredulous looks from the kids at the dojo was enough to convince me to learn how to tie it properly...and as it turns out, I wasn't tying my doh himo properly.

The trick is in the "tug" after you tie the knot.

I now use a non-standard knot that gets tighter the more you move around, but will come completely off the himo loop when you tug on it.

:confused2

[Atomu]

If the problem is the doh untying in the middle of a class, you can simply take the extreme of the himo and the lace that result of tying it, and make a knot with them (I hope I expressed it well).

Anyway, I think too that the best way is learn to do it the traditional way.

[Andoru]

I now use a non-standard knot that gets tighter the more you move around, but will come completely off the himo loop when you tug on it.

Show us please! (with photos if possible ;))

[DCPan]

Show us please! (with photos if possible ;))

Himo Tying (http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dcpan2000/album?.dir=/6273&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/dcpan2000)

Let me know if it isn't self-explanatory!

:rolleyes:

[Andoru]

Thanks for the photos! Very neat indeed especially when looking at the front!

[KOMA]

thank DCPAN

[Musha]

I don't see why people need a button or buckle on there Do himo, though I have seen some very good Kendo ka with them.

When I was young I had trouble tying my laces so I got a kind of draw buckle. But you guys aren’t 7 are you? :D.

I guess it's just your preference, but I don't like them :).

[JSchmidt]

I now use a non-standard knot that gets tighter the more you move around, but will come completely off the himo loop when you tug on it.
Looking at the pictures, isn't that the standard way of tying the do-himo?..I was taught to do it that way.

Jakob

[DCPan]

Looking at the pictures, isn't that the standard way of tying the do-himo?..I was taught to do it that way.

Jakob

Hmm...in most kendo textbooks, the standard way has you thread the tip of the himo through the mune loop and make the knot above the mune loop.

In the one I'm doing, rather than threading the whole himo through, you thread a loop through the loop....and use the threaded loop to hold another loop....

:rolleyes:

[DCPan]

I just added another picture.

As far as I know, the knot on the right is the standard textbook way and the most common.

The one I use is on the picture's left, but isn't necessarily uncommon. It just isn't the first one listed in the textbooks.

Left-Slip Right-Standard (http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dcpan2000/detail?.dir=/6273&.dnm=f674.jpg)