Scoring the kote ippon; jodan, nitoh.

[Charlie]

Guys, I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but there seems to be some conufsion among some people I talked to about scoring ippon on kote for a jodan or nitoh player. When you attack the raised arm, you still have to cut the forearm, right? It's not ippon if you hit the fist.

[JSchmidt]

When you attack the raised arm, you still have to cut the forearm, right? It's not ippon if you hit the fist.

That is correct.

[Old Warrior]

Guys, I'm sorry if this has been covered before, but there seems to be some conufsion among some people I talked to about scoring ippon on kote for a jodan or nitoh player. When you attack the raised arm, you still have to cut the forearm, right? It's not ippon if you hit the fist.

Yes, you have to cut the forearm. But, you can either arm when they are raised above the shoulder.

[Charlie]

Right, which is not usually applicable to the nitoh player, I mean, not the same way it is to the jodan player.

Hmmm... just thought of something. Against nitoh - go for men, get nitoh to cover men with shoto, get kote on shoto side. What do you think, OW?

[Old Warrior]

Right, which is not usually applicable to the nitoh player, I mean, not the same way it is to the jodan player.

Hmmm... just thought of something. Against nitoh - go for men, get nitoh to cover men with shoto, get kote on shoto side. What do you think, OW?

That will work. I do nito with the daito in the right hand, so kote is always there if you can: disguise your cut to look like men AND if you can get around my tsuka (I "choke up a tad sometimes to use the handle as a "guard") AND if you are not deflected by the action of my shoto moving just accross center, primarily to protect against tsuki.

Keep in mind doing kote frequently opens the center and judges would rather score my men than your kote. Also, hitting kote is a much harder target when done properly. But, you already know that.

[Charlie]

Thank you.

I have a buddy that does nitoh and get tp practice with him regularly. And, though he is my buddy, I obviously try to whip him and keep a few tricks in mind should I meet him in shiai when all bets are off. The way he fights (daito in left), it's like a boxer - he can always throw up one or both of his weapons to cover men. I have seen him draw matches out for a long time, wearing down his opponent and frustrating him until... snipe!

[Old Warrior]

I have seen him draw matches out for a long time, wearing down his opponent and frustrating him until... snipe!

That is the mindset. Wait, wait and wait for the right opening. When you are ahead, play defensively and watch for frustration mistakes.

Of course, it doesn't always play out that way. In November, our over 40 mens team, in the finals, lost the first 2 bouts (1-0) and our #3 man tied. So, when I was up 4th, I knew that winning 1-0 wasn't going to do it, because it would force the 5th man to win 2-0, or we would lose on total point count. That meant that I had to do everything I could to win 2-0. It changed my personal strategy as I had to press more than usual. If I had the skill of Moocow, it wouldn't be a problem, but, alas I'm not good enough to carry his bogu bag. Since it was to be my last bout of the day I reached down for all my reserve energy and became the hunter. It was an interesting bout.

[Charlie]

....and?! What happened?

[Old Warrior]

....and?! What happened?

I won 2-0, the Capt won 1-0, and the gold sits on my credenza (with the other trinkets of my kendo career), under my Dan Certificates. My win energized the Capt., and got the crowd going because victory was suddenly possible. Considering the fact that I am 58, was the oldest competitor (out of 170 entrants) and never participated in high school or college sports, it was a fun experience just to be involved. The over 40 division has no rank limitations so you can meet a 1 kyu (who is 40) or a 4th Dan who has 25 years of experience. Each presents a challenge that makes it unbelievable fun for an old fart like me.

[Charlie]

Bravo! Bravo!

[cesarekim]

Cool stuff and congrats to Old Warrior.

I really have a hard time with nito and jodan since they are both so rare over here. With the former it just feels like there's a sword too many in front of my face while with jodan it's tsuki time...

Out of curiosity, why do you say men is easier than kote? Is it because it has to be above the shoulders to be a valid point? I get the feeling I'm missing something in the discussion.

BTW, I'd agree that playing with a nito specialist is more like trench warfare than anything else. There is a basic problem, for me, of selecting a decent distance. This is one of the few cases where I will seriously consider long distance morote tsuki... I usually end up doing about a 45 sec exchange and then getting banged on the head....

[Old Warrior]

Out of curiosity, why do you say men is easier than kote? Is it because it has to be above the shoulders to be a valid point? I get the feeling I'm missing something in the discussion.

My right hand is constantly in motion, because kote is the closest target for my opponent. Accordingly, I do the things I mentioned above to guard against an easy hit. For you to land a score on my kote, you have to catch me sleeping or predict my changing rhythm. Also, I find there is an absolute bias toward men points. In other words, the shimpan would rather give a point for a men. But, what do I know?

[JSchmidt]

Also, I find there is an absolute bias toward men points. In other words, the shimpan would rather give a point for a men. But, what do I know?

I often think that this is more a case of incorrect hasuji that causes many seemingly valid kote-attacks not to be called.

[Super Kodachi]

Neil from our club scored a beautiful kote when we were at the the Kasahara Cup. I think scoring kote when in Nito has alot to do with the timing and the sound/power of the cut.

I definately agree that alot of shimpan would prefer to score men when judging nitoh players though. Maybe because it seems more like 'normal' kendo to them and that they can under stand a big men uchi easier than the small more subtle kote. Never seen anyone in Nito score Do in any taikai I've been too, but to be honest I haven't seen that much nito practised in shiai (personally)

[JSchmidt]

Neil from our club scored a beautiful kote when we were at the the Kasahara Cup. I think scoring kote when in Nito has alot to do with the timing and the sound/power of the cut.

I definately agree that alot of shimpan would prefer to score men when judging nitoh players though. Maybe because it seems more like 'normal' kendo to them and that they can under stand a big men uchi easier than the small more subtle kote. Never seen anyone in Nito score Do in any taikai I've been too, but to be honest I haven't seen that much nito practised in shiai (personally)

I think OW was referring to having kote scored against him? (I was)

[Super Kodachi]

Ahhh

Oh well, nevermind. Off on a tangent again!

[cesarekim]

My right hand is constantly in motion, because kote is the closest target for my opponent. Accordingly, I do the things I mentioned above to guard against an easy hit. For you to land a score on my kote, you have to catch me sleeping or predict my changing rhythm. Also, I find there is an absolute bias toward men points. In other words, the shimpan would rather give a point for a men. But, what do I know?

Your men or mine? Not sure whether you mean men executed in lieu of the kote or your men as a counter-attack on the kote.

Thank you for your help and MERRY XMAS!