Kiai

[Newbie]

It seems that everyone has a slightly different kiai for jodo, especially for uchi. I keep getting confused and forgetting what it's actually meant to be, so end up changing it - sometimes using two different ones in the same kata. Grading's in a couple weeks - please: what's the damn kiai!!

[Fred27]

The way I'm taught:


eeeeiii! for strikes and cuts with sword and Jo, (the latter honte uchi, gyakute uchi and so on)
hoooo! For thrusts with sword and Jo

In later Shinto Muso-ryu kata there are variations on the "hoooo!", but other than that I dont know of any other kiai in Jodo. (at least not at the dojo I train in).

[Budo Angel]

hoooo! For thrusts with sword and Jo
...er... I think you'll find that's changed :ermm: ...any one else care to enlighten :spchless:

[Fred27]

...er... I think you'll find that's changed :ermm: ...any one else care to enlighten :spchless:

Well I must have missed a Shinto Muso-ryu info-brief if it has "changed" :) What sort of kiai do you do for thrusts with jo (kaeshi-tsuki, gyakute-tsuki), and for sword (Sakan, Ukan to name a few) if not "hooo"? Or is it "hooot" you are referring to as "different"? :)

Mind you I dont train Zen Nihon Kendo Renmei Jodo.

[Marcus_P]

I believe in Seitei Jodo the two kiai are thus:

"ei" as in "eight" without the t for strikes (honte uchi, gyakute uchi, hiki otoshi uchi etc)
"oh" as in "hot" without the h and the t for thrusts/tsukis (kaeshi tsuki, gyakute tsuki, tai atare)

Tachi side kiai is usually "ei"

[Fred27]

We do the same "ho't" (or maybe "hawt" is more accurrate pronouncement) for thrusts with the sword as well, both in Jo-kata and kenjutsu-kata. :D

So you guys dont do that in Seitei Jodo anymore? Is that the new change Budo Angel was talking about? Caus I know I've seen Seitei Jodo guys doing "ho't" in their sword-thrusts before.

[Marcus_P]

Yah, tachi side is *usually* "ei"

I can only think of one, maybe two instances in Seitei Jodo kata where the tachi is used to tsuki, as opposed to cut (i.e. Sakan & Ran-ai off the top of my head)... I believe you are correct, and the accepted kiai is also an "oh"...

[Fred27]

hehe, as you can see I know next to nothing bout Seitei Jodo. The only thing I know bout the technical stuff is found from this 45 min clip on Video-Google (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5359625860913697857&q=jodo). Not even sure how up-to-date that vid is.

[Newbie]

Tachi's ei not ya? heh, thought that didn't sound right. Thanks guys :)

[Fred27]

You know, suddenly I'm curious bout seitei jodo. :) How often do you train newbie?

[Newbie]

At the moment only about once a week but that's cos my iaido is craptacular and my jodo not so much so. Usually a couple times a week.

[Fred27]

Kewl! You guys train 12 kata in total, right? How do you guys progress in the series? Like, when do you start with your first kata. How much kihon do you guys do before your first kata and so on :)

[Newbie]

I learnt first kata after I learnt the first four tandoku but with only with three seitei jodoka in the city I don't know how typical that is.

[Fred27]

I think we do the same. It's kinda cool to compare notes on Seitei and SMR.:) You guys (seitei) learn Tsukizue (or Tsuki Zue) and suigetsu as yer first kata right? At our dojo we were taught Tsukizue after my fourth kihon, suigetsu and Shamen as my first, second and third kata.

The suigetsu and shamen kata were not part of the main SMR-system originally, but were created specifically for the Zen Ken Jodo by Shimizu Sensei in the 1960's. We train those two kata as they are a good way for beginner to ease into Jodo. The real first kata of Shinto Muso-ryu Jodo is actually Tachi Otoshi, but since its a bit complex (for a first-timer anyways) they introduced suigetsu, shamen (and already existing Tsuki Zue) into the newbie training :).

As far as I know this is not a universal way of training in all SMR-dojos though so dont quote me on that ;)

[Newbie]

I think every dojo teaches things differently. I know Perth doesn't teach seitei the way I learnt it, but then I learnt it one on one. As long as you learn it in the end :)

[Andy_Watson]

Just to set the record straight, for ZNKR Seitei Jodo...

Shijo - strikes = "ii-ei"
Shijo - thrusts and tai atari = "ho-oh"

Uchidachi - thrusts and strikes = "ii-ei"

The above should be read as romaji phonetics.

Whatever else people do for seitei, it isn't correct if it isn't done by the book...

[Fred27]

Just to set the record straight, for ZNKR Seitei Jodo...

Shijo - strikes = "ii-ei"
Shijo - thrusts and tai atari = "ho-oh"

Uchidachi - thrusts and strikes = "ii-ei"

The above should be read as romaji phonetics.

Whatever else people do for seitei, it isn't correct if it isn't done by the book...


Phonetics has...(or grammar) never been my strong side. Thanks mate :D

[Kim Taylor]

hehe, as you can see I know next to nothing bout Seitei Jodo. The only thing I know bout the technical stuff is found from this 45 min clip on Video-Google (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5359625860913697857&q=jodo). Not even sure how up-to-date that vid is.

That's the most recent vid as far as I know Fred. With Furukawa sensei and Arai sensei, the Hachidan who were here in Guelph last May. (This year we will have the other two Hachidan from Tokyo who alternate visits, Shiiya sensei and Kurogo sensei, along with Namitome sensei and Eto Tomoko sensei to represent Fukuoka... it's the 20th anniversary of Sei Do Kai and everyone is invited, all you guys from Europe too, the Cdn dollar is dropping again so good news.)

So who do you practice with Fred?

Kim Taylor
SDK Guelph

[Kim Taylor]

So who do you practice with Fred?

Kim Taylor
SDK Guelph

Oop never mind I just traced it back.

Kim.

[Marcus_P]

Whatever else people do for seitei, it isn't correct if it isn't done by the book...

My bad, just going off what we've been doing and told here... Unfortunately I don't think we have a copy of the book! =(

[Fred27]

Oop never mind I just traced it back.

Kim.

Hehe ok :D. I would love to visit Canada.

Right now I'm due for the 2007 Kagamibiraki (http://www.fej.ch/en/calendar.htm) in Cartigny, Switzerland. Will be my first ever abroad training-session and first meeting with Pascal Krieger Sensei.

Wish me luck :p.

[Kim Taylor]

Well he has a couple of students in Montreal (Shhhhhh) so.....

Kim.



Hehe ok :D. I would love to visit Canada.

Right now I'm due for the 2007 Kagamibiraki (http://www.fej.ch/en/calendar.htm) in Cartigny, Switzerland. Will be my first ever abroad training-session and first meeting with Pascal Krieger Sensei.

Wish me luck :p.

[Budo Angel]

Uchidachi - thrusts and strikes = "ii-ei"
... ha ! vindicated ! notice the "THRUSTS" :wink:
if it isn't done by the book...
...ah ha - problem is that book keeps changing :o , hanshi change their minds, and everyone reads/speaks different languages, oh joys of budo eh...:grin:

[satsumaruma]

Don't wish to corrupt this thread but has anyone else ever noticed how much the Kiai in Jodo sounds like the Tellytubbies speakin?

Ei - ho LaLa
Ei-Ho Tinkywinky

Honest, try it in the dojo. Especially against someone who is on the portly side.

[Andy_Watson]

Kim

Do you happen to know how old that google video is? The reason I ask is that since the new book came out there are a couple of changes in emphasis which I didn't see on the video making me think it was done with the remnants of Hiroi sensei's kendo influence. It's still a wonderful demo.

Also could you tell me the date of your 20th anniversary seminar as I would love to come and I think I deserve a holiday.

Many thanks

Andy

[Kim Taylor]

Hi Andy

I don't see a date on the tape, but it's a few years old. There has definitely been some standardization in the last few years under Namitome sensei, they have worked hard to get rid of any of the differences amongst lines. It's been interesting having instructors from Fukuoka and Tokyo to learn from.

The Seminar will be from May 18 to 21 (I think I may have PM'd you the next weekend yesterday). At the moment it looks like we may have 8 instructors of 7dan and up at the event, plus our two iaido instructors as well.

Kim.

[Newbie]

Unfortunately I don't think we have a copy of the book!

Hey, Marcus, did you notice the blasted things sold out in about thirty seconds? I didn't even see one there. Les gave me a flyer of the website that'll apparently have them in a week or so.

Also, gave up on kiai. Everyone's was different anyway. Heh-heh, and at the beginning of the week I kept using the start of my kendo kiai when I was uchidach in kata! At least I got out of the habit before the grading. ;)

[Marcus_P]

I guess it didn't help that I bought three copies, two of them for people back here in Perth... =P

Yeah everyone kiai'ed differently over there... I just kept doing what I was taught! =P

[Newbie]

You greedy little bugger. I've been asking about those since forever!

As for the kiai, my primary source of instruction usually doesn't allow for a kiai and the rest of my instruction comes from three seperate secondary sources (yourself being one of them). *sigh* Ah well. Didn't seem to matter in the end. BTW, did you see the kyu gradings? If so did you find that most people's kaeshi tsuki was way, way too high and completely overshot the surigetsu?

[Fred27]

You greedy little bugger. I've been asking about those since forever!

As for the kiai, my primary source of instruction usually doesn't allow for a kiai and the rest of my instruction comes from three seperate secondary sources (yourself being one of them). *sigh* Ah well. Didn't seem to matter in the end. BTW, did you see the kyu gradings? If so did you find that most people's kaeshi tsuki was way, way too high and completely overshot the surigetsu?


Yer instructor doesn't allow you to do proper kiai? :confused:

[Newbie]

No, no, situation where it's not possible (like his backyard ten-thirty at night whilst his family and neighbours are sleeping).

[Fred27]

oooh! Gotcha! :cheerful: :silly:

[Marcus_P]

You greedy little bugger. I've been asking about those since forever!

As for the kiai, my primary source of instruction usually doesn't allow for a kiai and the rest of my instruction comes from three seperate secondary sources (yourself being one of them). *sigh* Ah well. Didn't seem to matter in the end. BTW, did you see the kyu gradings? If so did you find that most people's kaeshi tsuki was way, way too high and completely overshot the surigetsu?

Well, like you said, they'll be available online soon anyway...

Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to see the kyu gradings, as I was asked by the Sensei to steward the Dan gradings... As per usual...

However, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the kaeshi tsuki's were very high. Most people tend to think suigetsu is higher than it really is - in fact, even though I keep busting your chops for aiming too high, even I get told off for being a bit high by the Sensei.

I heard there were some major problems with kuritsuke but... Most people stepping before they initiated the jo action to trap the sword - rather than moving the jo first, then stepping. You better not have been one of those people! ;) I know I ripped into at least three or four people for doing that just before the grading as well...

[Newbie]

I think my kuritsuke was okay-ish. I remember that lesson :) It seemed to go on for a while. Don't start to move till the jo is at eye height - see! I remember my lessons! My main prob was we were told to stay together as a group so that when people are drawing back the jo in kaeshi tsuki at a quick pace instead of a medium/slow pace you had to as well else you'd get left behind. And in makiotoshi I was told to raise the jo then seme up but everyone else was semeing as they came up which is much faster so I got out of sync and that thre me.

Don't ask me about hikiotoshi though. We don't talk about that around here.

What were the dan gradings like? Would have liked to have seen them 'cept you told us we weren't allowed up cos us kyu grades are noisy, distracting buggers or something like that :D

[Marcus_P]

And in makiotoshi I was told to raise the jo then seme up but everyone else was semeing as they came up which is much faster so I got out of sync and that thre me.

What were the dan gradings like? Would have liked to have seen them 'cept you told us we weren't allowed up cos us kyu grades are noisy, distracting buggers or something like that :D

*Thinks* Afaik, you should raise the jo and seme/move forward at the same time. What you *shouldn't* be doing is throwing the sword down/away and moving at the same time... Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Couldn't tell you what the shodan gradings were like, cause I had to partner someone for the shodan gradings, but stewarding for the nidan and sandan gradings gives me a prime viewing position! =D

They didn't look too bad actually... Some of the Sandan candidates took kasumi no kamae way too high, but overall I think they were ok.

Though, aren't we off the topic of kiai now, and should we possibly move this discussion to a separate thread?

[Andy_Watson]

No this is fascinating, keep going.

[Marcus_P]

Fascinating in a "Oh my God these guys have no idea what they're doing!" kind of way, or fascinating in a "Intriguing Australian practices" kind of way? =P

[Andy_Watson]

The intriguing one. Most people never talk about technique itself on here so it is quite enlightening (and sometimes gratifying as it sounds like we are doing mostly the same stuff).

[Newbie]

Gah. I've been told to stop worrying about things like seme, etc and just worry about overarcing problems I appear to have in posture and footwork. But that means having someone to correct them.... *sigh*

[Marcus_P]

Well, while at your level you need to make sure your footwork and posture are correct, you also still need to know about the proper practice and use of seme etc. otherwise you'll still be doing the technique incorrectly. (This is not to say at a higher level you don't need to make sure your footwork and posture are correct... You still do, but hopefully you've practiced it so much that the correct footwork and posture have become second nature!)

Spoke to Russ last night about the way you were taught maki-otoshi, and he said that that's not a bad way to teach beginners - mainly because you don't want to be stepping forward before you raise the jo up. At a higher level, you will eventually join the two, so they effectively look like they are done at the same time, but in reality, the jo is moving slightly before you are.

[Newbie]

Heh, moving the jo before the body is something I think I'm finally starting to get over.

The problem with maki was a couple days before grading Bob said, looking around at the rather constrictive space (we were right next to the guys learning the first four) to bring up the jo then seme so noone copped a jo under the chin. On the morning of grading I was talking to Caine and neither of us could remember if that was the way we were meant to be doing maki that way or seme-ing up so we asked someone of higher rank who said to raise it then seme forward which was fair enough (Bob was practising for his iai grading at that point and fair enough, too). But then in the grading we were told to keep together as a group. Raising the jo then semeing forward takes a lot more time than semeing up so I fell behind, form went to crap and I got flustered. :( Same reason why my kaeshi tsuki left something to be desired - that first bit that's meant to be slow, everyone was doing quickly. But at least I don't think it was too high - I've been absolutely drilled on that so I hope it wasn't!

After watching the jo comp after we got knocked out, I reckon the last two months or so I focussed way too much on kata and needed to focus much more on my tandoku. Cos it was just myself and Chris, we'd whiz through tandoku then did quite a bit of kata. Leading up to the last month before hand I focussed mainly on iai cos that was craptacular and needed much more work and just when I would have started getting serious about jo again I go brutally attacked by a vicious ninja child.

I think if I focus mainly on tandoku and work really hard at it, then my kata will get much better. I've mentioned this to K-Sempai but haven't had a chance to really talk to him about it properly yet.

I mean, I gotta wait for this knee to heal up before I can do pretty much of anything (can't believe I managed to fluke it through the nationals with it like this - only missed twenty minutes of iai on Tuesday morning because of it!) but am I on the right track or completely off the ball?

I've got till June to get up to snuff :)

[Aden]

Hi Newbie - haven't had the chance to discuss the seminar with Bob in detail yet - he vanished to Brisbane right after, all we discussed were our peoples gradings - so it is interesting to see the thread drifting along here.... lazy Caine and Ian likewise did not reappear at iai or jo today, I only had Bosko come for iai of the 4 that went to the seminar.

Aden

[Marcus_P]

You are definitely on the right track...

Even over here we tend to focus a lot on kata, and less on basics, which is bad. If you practice your basics and get it working well, that will definitely show in your kata - as an improvement.

When I say basics however, I don't mean just tandoku. While yes, the increased practice in tandoku will definitely help, and definitely show in your kata, think about what we went through when you were in Perth. While you have some idea of what the basic technique is through tandoku, when you go to apply it, it may feel completely different, or even be applied differently - case in point, hiki otoshi - the sweep as opposed to the strike. By practicing basics, I mean an increased focus on both tandoku AND sotei.

Think about what you are doing in the kata... Most of the movements are basics are they not? Tsuki-zue has you doing Honte Uchi, Suigetsu has you doing Hiki-otoshi. Hissage has you doing both Kuritsuke and Hiki-otoshi. While you know how these movements flow from the tandoku, you will get a better feel for applying them through sotei.

Besides, just constantly practicing tandoku can get boring! =P Throwing in sotei livens things up a bit, and also helps improve the bond/feeling/unity between a pair which is also important in kata.

If you have no idea how sotei goes, try and recall what you learnt in Perth. There's also a whole section in the Jodo book you're hoping to obtain on how Sotei should function, so that should help when you finally get it! =D

Note that this doesn't mean you should neglect kata. Kata is still important, but shouldn't necessarily be considered more important than basics - especially at your level.

I hope what I said makes sense to you higher grades around here, and feel free to correct me if you disagree!!

[Fred27]

Besides, just constantly practicing tandoku can get boring! =P Throwing in sotei livens things up a bit, and also helps improve the bond/feeling/unity between a pair which is also important in kata.

If you have no idea how sotei goes, try and recall what you learnt in Perth. There's also a whole section in the Jodo book you're hoping to obtain on how Sotei should function, so that should help when you finally get it! =D

Note that this doesn't mean you should neglect kata. Kata is still important, but shouldn't necessarily be considered more important than basics - especially at your level.

I hope what I said makes sense to you higher grades around here, and feel free to correct me if you disagree!!


"Kata is still important". I should hope so. Not sure how things work in Seitei, but over here, kata is the core of the teachings, and kihon is an extremly good way to get to it.

Regarding kihon: At the Kagamibiraki (jan 2007) I heard from the senior instructors: "Without proper kihon there is no good kata" (cant remember the exact quote but essentially the above) and "kihon is a life-time study." I also heard from instructors with 20+ years experience they still feel they havent nailed every kihon and that they feel they could improve, including my own sensei.

Lesson learned from this? Never neglect kihon. Grind that kihon into your brain, never say to yerself "wow! Now I've mastered kihon, time to move on to kata". Kihon, simply put: isnt an easy thing to master if at all possible. But progress in kihon means progress in kata. Simple as that. So keep at it. Train with a partner as often as possible.:)

[Newbie]

Besides, just constantly practicing tandoku can get boring! =P

I spent four straight weeks, four to six times a week practising just honte and gyakute! (heh, you'd think I'd do them better, wouldn't you ;) )

I think I know most of the sotei, any I'm missing I'll ask Kristian. Risa will be starting with us very, very soon. Yay! I really liked the way you demonstrated the difference in when to use (would have been used) kuri tsuke, kuri hanashi and tai atari when we were doing sotei. Made an awful lot of sense.

I suppose there is a great danger in going the opposite way - not enough tandoku and too much kata to too much emphasis on tandoku and neglecting kata. But for my next grading I only need one and two and I think I could almost do them in my sleep :) Trouble is, don't do them for a while (like tandoku) cos you've taken for granted that you can do them and they get crappy.

I got really thrown by the kuri tsuke in hissage (sp? is that what third kata's called?) cos whilst I was told in kata kuri tsuke was done on the opposite side to what it is in tandoku and sotei, I still had to re-wire myself. Got there(ish) in the end though.

"Without proper kihon there is no good kata" (cant remember the exact quote but essentially the above) and "kihon is a life-time study."

Hey, I really like these quotes! :)

Well, I start qigong on Wednesday so hopefully once my back is better (or closer to being better) my footwork and posture will get better cos I wont be doing "weird things to protect it" as sempai puts it. I don't even know I'm doing it till someone says "why are you like that, you should be more like this" and I either whimper or something gives and I can barely walk for a week. Dah.

I never suspected kendo would be easier on the back that jodo or iaido!

Aden, Bob prolly vanished off to Brissy to aclimitise for next year's champs on the Gold Coast :D I'm looking forward to that! Did you see his toe? Was it manky? He might have to be like me and do standing iai kata for a while!

[Fudo-Shin]

I too was taught makiotoshi the way newbs describes...catch joe, maki then seme up, But I can see how this will dissolve in the long run. Something for me to refine. It's alot like the changes from Kendo Kihon to application waza.

Nice discussion guys...nice to know that others are experiencing similiar probs to me and that it is just another hurdle to jump in the beginning levels.

Good luck to you guys for next year (Gold Coast) and good to hear such positive comments about the Tazzie Seminar..I wish I could have been there. We will have a few more from Cairns at Gold Coast next year. And congrats to Marcus, I believe he did well from what I hear.

[Fred27]

Hey, I really like these quotes! :)



Hehe..Well of course you can do kata without knowing kihon as kihon itself was a product of the 20th century rather than what they did back in the Samurai-age. But in this day and age it is an excellent tool for us fat city, weekend-warriors to try and get into the Martial Arts. :D

Speaking of basic techniques, besides Kihon, do you guys in Seitei do drills with the ken and jo? Like doing repeated cuts from hasso left/right, or kuritsuke from left/right?

[Marcus_P]

Just because we don't practice kuritsuke the left handed side in tandoku, doesn't mean it doesn't exist - and doesn't mean you can't practice it left handed in sotei! Same goes for all the tandoku that are only practice one side! (Basically Maki-otoshi through to Do-barai...) This is not to say I know the left handed sides for all of them - other than knowing they exist! =D

For me it's actually the opposite... I've been practicing kata for so long and neglecting sotei, that it feels weird for me to practice application of kuritsuke on the side that we practice in tandoku! =P

Thanks Fudo-Shin - personally I thought I went ok, but everyone has been telling me I did well, so I guess that's something! =D

[Marcus_P]

It occurs to me, you're not mistaking me for the other Marcus from Melbourne, are you? =P

Cause he did really well, and is more likely to be known than me! =D

[Fudo-Shin]

It occurs to me, you're not mistaking me for the other Marcus from Melbourne, are you? =P

Cause he did really well, and is more likely to be known than me! =D

I asked my Sensei who won the Jo pairs competition and who did well in his view? He scrunched his eyebrow and with a vague look on his face and said along the lines of...
"I didn't have the chance to watch much....I think someone like ahhhh.....Maaarrcuss?
"From Melbourne?" I said.
"Yeah, Melbourne is quite strong for the Jo".
"ahhhh...." I replied.

And instantly I thought it must be you. Oh well...your thread here has still been enlightening.

[Fudo-Shin]

And...now that I see you are actually from Perth I feel like an absolute TOOL.

[Newbie]

Heh-heh, I just refer to them as Melbourne Marcus and Perth Marcus. It's easier that way. Maybe I could truncate that further to M&M and PM.... (you don't have a middle name beginning with 'S' do you? :o)

Don't worry about being overshadowed by M&M, Marcus. Your ego could overshadow anyone! HA-HA-HA (in-joke guys, please noone flame me).

Anyway, back to seriousness type stuff,

Reverse side, sotei, huh? So when you gonna come over and teach me?

Knee's still giving me grief but once it's better I'm hoping for jodo twice a week, kendo twice a week and iaido twice a week. (some of those days will be double ups - der!) This knee is really starting to irritate me. I'm dying to try out the new jo and bokken I got.

Oh and Marcus, here's the link to the jodo pic (Kin no Shounen is a way off from being finished off yet but it's underway): http://arwenspiccies.tripod.com/budo/jodoroad.htm

Well of course you can do kata without knowing kihon as kihon itself was a product of the 20th century rather than what they did back in the Samurai-age

Really!! That intrigues me...

[Fred27]

Really!! That intrigues me...

You didnt know? :P Where is yer sense of history! :D.

The kihon techniques is the brainchild of Shimizu Takaji (1896-1978). He developed kihon as a way for new students to train important elements of Shinto Muso Ryu Jo kata. Once the kihon were established he started teaching it at his Tokyo dojo, and eventually the kihon were brought back to the Fukuoka Dojo and taught there.

When Shimizu Sensei intensified his cooperation with the Kendo people, a series of ten kata were chosen from the first three Jo kata-series of Shinto Muso Ryu (a total of eight series exist in Shimizus SMR-system), with two kata specially created (Suigetsu, Shamen) for what would become ZNKR Jodo or simply Seitei Jodo. Kihon were chosen to be a part of Seitei Jodo for the same reasons mentioned above. As I understand it, there is also a difference between how Seitei does kihon and how SMR does it and that this was done on purpose in Seitei as to suit the Kendo way of training.

[Newbie]

Sweet :) I did ask about jo history stuff a while ago (that wasn't koryu specific) and just got someone telling me some kinda weird stuff. But this is interesting.

[Fred27]

Sweet :) I did ask about jo history stuff a while ago (that wasn't koryu specific) and just got someone telling me some kinda weird stuff. But this is interesting.


Plenty more history where that came from...eerr...A warning though, I have been told that once I start lecture about anything people get the sudden urge to claw out their own ear-drums with a fork.

[Newbie]

I wanna hear more about Gennosuke... :)

[Fred27]

I wanna hear more about Gennosuke... :)

<coughGonnosukecough> :D

[Newbie]

errr.....? please tell me i haven't just made an idiot of myself somehow? i seem to be very good at doing this without realising it.

Hey, Aden, tell our good ol' manky toed friend that I was chatting to a guy from our dojo and I mentioned something about Tekki. He said "wassat?" so I told him and he said "oh, I always just called him Bob". HAHAHA.

I'm gonna watch Beebop now. Damn the ABC for putting it on at 10:30pm on a weeknight.

BTW, something very interesting Lee Sensei told me at the seminars when we were talking about them introducing that in comp you must wear the kendogi, not your iai blacks, yet you can still wear indigo/blue/white/whatever for iai - cos jodo has a uniform but iaido doesn't. I find that quite curious. I know the iaidogi was designed cos iaidoka don't get whacked like kendo and jodo bods so can get away with wearing something much lighter and cos of paired kata, jodo wears kendogi. But anyone know how it came about that jodo has a set uniform but iai doesn't?

[Fred27]

errr.....? please tell me i haven't just made an idiot of myself somehow? i seem to be very good at doing this without realising it.

Dont worry bout it :)

But anyone know how it came about that jodo has a set uniform but iai doesn't?

Hm...well...I'm gonna take a wild guess, I'm not 100% sure but I would imagine that since Shimizu Takaji had such a close working relationship with the Kendo Community....need I say more?

[Fred27]

*Edit*

I didnt mean to sound cocky, the truth is I have no idea. For all I know the Kendo-uniform thing might have come from after Shimizu Sensei died. It just seems logical the uniforms came through the cooperation with the Kendo-dudes. :)

[Newbie]

That's not really what I meant. It's obvious why kendogi - kendogi is nicely thick when you're prodding each other in the surigetsu. (Though with some of the hits and bruises I've copped on my wrist during tsuki zue, I'm almost tempted to wear kote! just kidding) But even kendo you can wear white. They just made the announcement it had to be blue (they didn't say a kendogi cos that'd mean white kendogi). And if kendo and jodo has a 'uniform' why not iai, even though most iaidoka wear black? You'll see more coloured gi in iai though in kendo or jodo.

[Fred27]

That's not really what I meant. It's obvious why kendogi - kendogi is nicely thick when you're prodding each other in the surigetsu. (Though with some of the hits and bruises I've copped on my wrist during tsuki zue, I'm almost tempted to wear kote! just kidding) But even kendo you can wear white. They just made the announcement it had to be blue (they didn't say a kendogi cos that'd mean white kendogi). And if kendo and jodo has a 'uniform' why not iai, even though most iaidoka wear black? You'll see more coloured gi in iai though in kendo or jodo.

Hehe, if you think tsuki zue is tough on yer wrists, try doing the special form of kuritsuke found in much of the Chudan-series and Ran-ai. :D

Anyways, bout hte clothing..yeh I misunderstood. I got no clue.

I can give you a general overview of Musō Gonnosuke Katsuyoshi if you wish...<hides all the forks> :D :p

[Marcus_P]

Also at higher Dan levels, for Seitei Iai at least, I hear they prefer you to wear Iai blacks. Could be wrong but.

And I'd like a history lesson too... But maybe better in a different thread =P

[Newbie]

Ha! What are we gonna call the thread? General jodo banter?

Also at higher Dan levels, for Seitei Iai at least, I hear they prefer you to wear Iai blacks

errr.. that contradicts the announcement at the championships though.

Dah. Confused.

[Fred27]

Ha! What are we gonna call the thread? General jodo banter?



errr.. that contradicts the announcement at the championships though.

Dah. Confused.

"General Jodo banter"? Nah! how bout "Muso Gonnosuke and Jodo"? :).

[Marcus_P]

Ha! What are we gonna call the thread? General jodo banter?



errr.. that contradicts the announcement at the championships though.

Dah. Confused.

Announcement at the championships was something along the lines of this:

Jodo: Blue kendogi, Blue hakama - at lower levels it is acceptable to have blue kendogi and black hakama, as long as you are using the kendogi, not an iaigi (different material, i.e. the horse blanket v. tetron jacket)

Iaido: Whatever gi and hakama you want - preferred the colours to be matching.

HOWEVER, at higher Dan levels, for IAIDO, it is preferred that you wear either the blacks (all black) or the whites (all white), and use an Iaigi as opposed to a Kendogi.

[Newbie]

So why the change in the higher grades? Cos you should know better and not need the protection? ;)

You have got to check this out. Hella funny: http://www.blitzsport.com/prodinfo.asp?number=70-01
Read the description.

[Marcus_P]

I dunno, go ask the ZNKR. =P

[Budo Angel]

Read the description.

An authentic 4ft hand crafted staff carefully made in Japan from 100% Japanese white oak. Tsuba NOT included.

arf arf :silly: ...not all British suppliers are this ill-informed :rolleyes:

[Newbie]

They're generous though. Their hakama comes with tie!

[Newbie]

Marcus is upset that this thread has died so can someone say something interesting that will provoke a long and profound discussion about jodo?

[Marcus_P]

I'm upset? You were the one commenting it had died! All I did was blame you! =D

[Fred27]

Marcus is upset that this thread has died so can someone say something interesting that will provoke a long and profound discussion about jodo?

Hm..Do you want someone to say something deep and profound or just plain silly? :p
I can do both. :D

[Newbie]

Both are good :)

[Fred27]

Hm...deep and profound:

"Hold faithfulness and sincerity as first principles. Then no friends would not be like yourself (all friends would be as loyal as yourself). If you make a mistake, do not be afraid to correct it." /Confucious

And silly :p:p:p:

A Dictionary for Women
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Patience (pa*shens) n. The most important ingredient for dating, marriage and children. See also "tranquilizers".

Valentine's Day (val*en*tinez dae) n. A day when you have dreams of a candlelight dinner, diamonds, and romance, but consider yourself lucky to get a card.

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Zillion (zil*yen) n The number of times you ask someone to take out the trash, then end up doing it yourself ...anyway.