Jigeiko with "new" people

[aru-ma]

How do most of you do ji-geiko with people who are relatively new in wearing men? the way I do it is a half ji-geiko half uchikomi-geiko fashion, this way they can pick up on seeing openings faster (reducing the gap in seeing the opening and cutting it), on the downside its making them do things that they're not sure or don't know what they're doing (eg. gyaku-do, hiki men).

on a related note, there are several lower grade people in our club that do things because "we saw you do it in ji-geiko", I usually tell them not to do it yet because the they dont know how to do it. Is there anything wrong with this?

[JSchmidt]

Similar. Primarily, I try to just do basic straight kendo and try to stay away from too much oji-waza. (Too much oji-waza will discourage them from attacking)...secondly, I try to make them commit fully to their attacks and not stopping halfway through. If that doesnt work, I will turn it into uchikomi and as that's going, start to attack as well.

FWIW's, I can see nothing wrong with beginners doing hiki-men...I rather see them doing that, than fumble around in tsuba-zeria.

Jakob

[Neil Gendzwill]

For beginners I usually pick one or two points I want them to work on, and emphasize that through the session. I'll stop and talk to them if they don't seem to be getting the lesson. I work on stuff like going through completely, turning correctly, not getting flustered by missing, maai, staying centred, etc. I try to watch carefully to make sure they aren't overexerted, especially people who aren't too fit in general. I make sure to hit them a couple of times during the session so they get used to the feeling but generally I only hit them to make a point, mostly I let them hit me.

[Karaken]

Originally posted by Neil Gendzwill
I only hit them to make a point, mostly I let them hit me.

Unless of course, they're clubbers. Then I hit them with varying degree of force. Just to let them know how it was being hit by them all these time :-)

Center

[xvikingx]

Ah the vengence clubbing... the one thing that really made me work on not overusing my right hand. ^_^

[kendomushi]

I usually work it more like kakarigeiko, but if they are not taking the openings or hesitating, or no follow through I attack them. If they try to attack when there is no opening at all, I just maintain chudan and let them impale themselves on my shinai.
Clubbers get to find out that I am very proficient at clubbing as well. :D

[samurai999]

Ji-geko with new people? We are usually encouraged to practice ohji-waza when going against beginners. It REALLY helps your maai and your timing. Nothing too serious. Just for practice. No tsuki or migi-dou. That stuff is too harsh. I usually practice those things with another dan.

If they come in and club me repeatedly, then I give them a pasting. I seme and seme and seme again.

There are beginners who are pretty arrogant and think that they are the sh**. They keep telling you what you are doing wrong but, you can find a million things wrong with what they are doing. I just quit. If they know everything, then they are better off learning on their own and get pasted on the court. :D

Tim

[dorkusxmaximus]

I just get in some good hits off of them before making them do some uchikomi or kakari-geiko.

[Chook]

I will usually talk with them through the match, offering them points to concentrate on.

[PhilMcLaughlin]

snip.
on a related note, there are several lower grade people in our club that do things because "we saw you do it in ji-geiko", I usually tell them not to do it yet because the they dont know how to do it. Is there anything wrong with this?


No 1 rule of teaching Kendo (and 101 other things)

Students will inavriably manage to copy your mistakes and bad form with 100% accuracy having seen it once for 1/10 of a second.

They will however resist learning good form and technique until their dying days - despite instruction, demonstration, beratings and beatings (the latter more rarely) :-)

Mind you my teachers say that of me still ;-)

The serious point is that if you are teaching / coaching or just a more senior student then you (should IMO) have an added responsibilty to fence them with good (hopefully your best) form - this will benefit both of you.

If you fence Juniors with flashy & tricky technique - guess what theyll pick up ? If youre fighting your peers then of course anyone will try every trick they can think of to gain an advantage

Telling people that they shouldnt use a technique that you are using really ought to make you ask what is it that they are trying to copy & why would they need it in their keiko ? (and why are you doing it ?)

Of course the counter argument to this is that traditionally the only way to learn Kendo is to watch others & try copying / improvising it yourself - a lot depends on local custom and practise

beginners do tend to get frustrated when told they arent ready to do something - perhaps the simplest solution is to let them try but be resolute about allowing good (whatever) technique to pass and everything else to fail - that way theyll work out that X technique doesnt work for them and they may ask why - thus leading you into a more constructive discission

cheers

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you fence Juniors with flashy & tricky technique - guess what theyll pick up ?
Very good point. When playing beginners, it's a good idea to hit them only with your straightest, best kendo. It's a good example for them and good training for you - both sides benefit. A friend of mine who was formerly on the national team was training in relative isolation while preparing for Worlds a few years ago. Nobody at his club was better than shodan or so. I asked him how he kept up his skills. He said that he didn't take too many points from his students but the ones he did take he tried to make as perfect as possible and also as commited as possible - no laziness, just complete commitment, follow-through, zanshin, every time. That takes a lot of discipline when playing beginners - it's very easy to get bored and just tap them as they go by, but you're not learning much doing that. I often don't live up to that standard but it's great advice.

Must have been hard on his beginners though - can you imagine being a beginner and having this world-class player go from idling to hitting you with his best, full-speed shot?