Tenugui and the individual

[tilt]

Because there are thousands of tenugui designs out there, I am curious as to how people choose which ones to wear. If we were all the same, a plain blue, black or white one would suffice, but do the more colourful examples say something about the person wearing them?

[KhawMengLee]

Its hard to be a the true dandy of kendo...my favourite tenugui is my lime green one(now faded) from Wakaba but I also use a blood red one from my Malaysian Dojo...I also got a blue totoro one but the kids in the dojo keep trying to pinch it...

[tamaki]

I also bought a Totoro and a Stitch tenugui:smiley: but in practice what I really love to use is a cheap one (present from kendoshop) coloured kon,just the same colour as the keikogi and bogu.I like everything dark:)

The good thing is that the tenugui is one of the things that we can choose freely in kendo,and whatever design you use,nobody is gonna tell you something. And its really nice to exchange them with fellow kendo friends :)

[ahmed61086]

I like the indigo blue one I have, because it matches my whole uniform so well, but I also like red, and will use a white when once in a while.

[ziggey]

I got aone with a cute wild pig along with happy new year 2007 in japanese on it. Im so never going to use it.

[nodachi]

Tenugui are nice for a couple of reasons. Even though no one else may know unless you tell them, it is a nice way to honor the places where you have trained. For example, I have at least 15 tenugui, but I only use 2 on a regular basis. One from my first dojo because they are very special people that mean a lot to me. It's like one of my ways of remembering them and saying thank you for starting me on kendo. The other is from my current dojo because they are also important to me. Super nice people who have taught me a lot.

Funky colored tenugui help people to find you in a crowded tournament.

They also have a nice team spirit kinda feeling when you are in tournaments and everyone wears the same one.

So while the individuality of tenugui is nice, I think of them more in terms of that soft and squishy touchy feely crap... :)

[Mr Softee]

For practice I use ones that I made myself.

I keep the ones from tournaments and special occasions and dont use them.

[ScottUK]

I bought some tenegui from a giftshop near Musashi's burialplace with his precepts printed on it - after giving a few out, I am left with one to use and one to keep as a souvenir.

[KhawMengLee]

So while the individuality of tenugui is nice, I think of them more in terms of that soft and squishy touchy feely crap... :)

You big softy you...awwwww.

[Kuma]

Aw, man. From what my search revealed, it looks like the shop with the Totoro tenugui is closed. Can anyone recommend a site with some funky tenugui? Where do those of youu who get them online pick them up? I'd love to head over to Musashi's birthplace, but I've got some picking up to do around the house today.

Additionally, do they usually come in a standard size? My head is hyuge. Looks like an orange on a toothpick. Has its own atmosphere. I could prolly use a plus-size tenugui. Y'know, husky boy tenugui. Any help?

[KhawMengLee]

I picked mine up at a Giblhi(sic) shop right next to the entrance of Asakusa Shrine...but I'm sure you can find 'em with a bit of google searching.

[Lloromannic]

I like a brown one and a darkish blue one i have, but really i use the ones which are clean.

[tilt]

I missed some groovy manga tenugui on ebay a couple of days ago.

[Pan-Chan]

I have around ten tenugui and just rotate through them.

My favorite ones are an indigo one with sumo waza displayed all over it, and a white one with these guardian lion/dragon things in blue.

I like all of them actually...

This is a tough question.

[The great I AM]

I get so many tenugui I don't know what to do with them, really. Most of the time, I'll not use it, so I donate it to UCL, but the ones I use are either the ones that I reckon look cool (like the one with skeletons all over it I used yesterday) or have big pictures on it (I have one with 3 sumo wrestlers on it) or ones that have some "cool" factor too them.....like a japanese police tenugui, or my korean national team one. Stuff like that. Or of course anything bright red, like my UCL ones.

[akira fudo]

Aw, man. From what my search revealed, it looks like the shop with the Totoro tenugui is closed. Can anyone recommend a site with some funky tenugui? Where do those of youu who get them online pick them up? I'd love to head over to Musashi's birthplace, but I've got some picking up to do around the house today.

Additionally, do they usually come in a standard size? My head is hyuge. Looks like an orange on a toothpick. Has its own atmosphere. I could prolly use a plus-size tenugui. Y'know, husky boy tenugui. Any help?


Yeah..are there any internet places where a person could buy some nice tenugui? :laugh:

[Paburo]

i also lost track of how many tenugui i got. precious gift tenugui like custom written callygraphy by hachidans like Takizawa or Yoda i'll never use so i just collect them.

i regularly use the dojo blue tenugui that i helped design, or just plain blue or black inspiring kanji fancy-less tenugui.... though my all time favourite tenugui -which also gives me luck in taikai- is the dark-golden shishiza (mystical japanese zodiac lion for 'LEO'... incidentally i am leo too :D) tenugui yuki-san from imashop gave to me. it's absolutely cool and killer.

not sure if yuki has got displayed some tenugui online on her shop, but the ones she usually has for sale are great!

btw, we should post pics here of our fav tenugui. that would save a lot of text and descriptions... :D

[dwez]

There is a yellow one at Nine Circles. I love yellow, it's my favortie colour but shortly after I thought of getting it I saw a guy at our dojo who i think has it so I decided not to get it. So the answer is YES tenegui is about the individual [fo rme anyway]. I use a maroon one, and a white one, have lost a dark blue one somewhere and have a Tsunami dojo one from a seminar. These are all 7+ years old so I'm quietly confident I'm unique with them. I'm still convinced the Japanese characters are advertising a newsagents or fish shop, or proclaiming me to be an idiot...

[KhawMengLee]

Yeah..are there any internet places where a person could buy some nice tenugui? :laugh:

try ebay, search tenugui, tenagui etc...I managed to pick a few interesting designs like one's with japanese geisha art prints etc

[namabiru]

Not so much. I use the ones given to me from competitions in Japan. My sensei closed his budo shop briefly, and had a whole heap of tenugui from custom order that he gave to the dojo, and then one of my Eikaiwa (English conversation) students gave me a bunch her son used to have (he wasn't practicirng anymore). That was a cool deal, I also got a big training bokken her son had used, with promise that if she found any more kendo stuff I could have it. :)

Did the USA team have tenugui made for WKC? That would be a cool one to have.

The coolest ones I have, though, is from the 2004 Zen Nippon. The kids in my dojo got to compete for Oita, so Sensei had some dojo tenugui made. The kinen (commerative) tenugui was designed by Koizumi Junichi, and he chose the kanji 'dream' (yume). That one's not getting used for a while.

[cesarekim]

Always mean to keep the commemorative ones new and wrapped in the original paper and plastic. 2 minutes before geiko, I'm always missing tenogui so I either use my underwear or use the commemorative one I keep in the bag. The only ones that have made it safely are those that were framed and put on the wall as soon as we got home.

[Kuma]

LOL

Now you have to answer the "boxers or briefs" question, cesarekim. I myself wear boxer-briefs. Would your tenu-undies method work with them?

[cesarekim]

LOL

Now you have to answer the "boxers or briefs" question, cesarekim. I myself wear boxer-briefs. Would your tenu-undies method work with them?

I personally prefer mawashi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mawashi)(廻し). You don't know how much of a pain in the ass they are, in all senses :eek: but at least, I have 30 feet of cotton to work with....

I don't know your head/butt ratio so I can make no constructive comment on a good wrapping method. The classic one with the belt around the forehead probably will work...;)

Cheers
cesare

[kartoffelngeist]

you're not into freedom kendo then?

edit: or presumably you are, if your underwear are on your head...

[tilt]

2 minutes before geiko, I'm always missing tenogui so I either use my underwear or use the commemorative one I keep in the bag.

Run that past me again...

[SmellsLikeBogu]

There is a yellow one at Nine Circles. I love yellow, it's my favortie colour but shortly after I thought of getting it I saw a guy at our dojo who i think has it so I decided not to get it. So the answer is YES tenegui is about the individual [fo rme anyway]. I use a maroon one, and a white one, have lost a dark blue one somewhere and have a Tsunami dojo one from a seminar. These are all 7+ years old so I'm quietly confident I'm unique with them. I'm still convinced the Japanese characters are advertising a newsagents or fish shop, or proclaiming me to be an idiot...


Ive got that yellow one and its my favorite, its big enough, my original one was a tad to small, and came loose, but this yellow one is just perfect, it looks great, and it feels great.

[cesarekim]

Run that past me again...

I always forget to pack an extra tenogui so I end up using that nice one wrapped in paper and plastic....:emb:

[TORA]

Without having checked everyone's location here it seems that this discussion on tenugui fashion is a typical gaijin thing. I too love stylish tenugui and agree that they are the only kind of fashion statement that one can show in a kendo dojo. But my japanese partner always rolls her eyes when I get a new tenugui that isn't just plain white or with at the most a kanji in the centre. She says it is not iki (cool) and reminds me that in Japan it would be very unlikely to see kendoka wearing tenugui that go beyond the occasional kanji or a simple classical japanese textile pattern. That didn't stop me from bringing back more than a dozen of very nice tenugui from Japan last year and lots of people in my dojo wanted to buy some from me. Good for those of us who are not japanese. :)

[Robobob]

I never bought a tenugui but I also have about ten to 15. They come from tournaments, bogu-orders, friends etc. I thought about keeping the special ones clean and save and not use them. But besides one on the wall and another one on a piece of furniture (like a plaid or whatever), I found no way to properly use/celebrate them. So I decided it´s better to wear them, as they are made for. I also rotate now and that way neither one is worn to often and they will hopefully stay good for some time.

[Hai_hai]

I use the one that came with my bogu. It takes the guess work out.

[dwez]

Ive got that yellow one and its my favorite, its big enough, my original one was a tad to small, and came loose, but this yellow one is just perfect, it looks great, and it feels great.

I'll take that as a recommendation then and stop being so daft and get something I like...

[tilt]

Thank you all for the replies. So to recap we have:

Plain black/blue/white
Linked to sentimental reasons
Linked events/incidents
Flambouyant colours and prints
And underwear.

[R Stroud]

Okay, in a fit of self serving ego, I laid out all of my tenugui in my dojo, at least the ones I could find anyway. It seems that there must be another box somewhere with more, but I'll be darned if I can find it.

Serving no purpose, but offering it for your inspection anyway. Here is what 140 tenugui look like if spread out like a quilt. It would have been more spectacular if I could have convinced myself to open the souvenir ones...

http://www.idaho-kendo.com/Photos/Images_2007/tenugui_L.jpg

I hope to zap a better picture with a "real camera" and update the website later this week.

[ben]

When you do, you should post it in the "Post a pic of your fave tenugui" in the multimedia forum.

Only two I recognise: the Gedatsu Kai one from Kitamoto, and the Santa Clara WKC one.

b

[namabiru]

2 minutes before geiko, I'm always missing tenogui so I either use my underwear ...

I simply can't wait until we meet and get to do kendo together. Underwear... now that's a new one.

Do you find it necessary to ascertain that they're clean before making this commitment, or do you simply live life dangerously and slip them over your head without checking...

[Anime12478]

I don't have any cool tenegui beyond the basic ones with the kanji on it and ones I have recieved from tournaments. Since I really don't have a special one, I tend to just wear whatever I pull out of my bogu bag (though I am partial towards the maroon one).

[yohed55]

My favorite tenugui is one that I received as a gift from my senpai. It isn't anything special, but he only had two of them and he gave one to me, of course 1 year down the line, I am the only active student of his.

I guess its the sedimental value that counts, not the cool design.

[Masahiro]

Okay, in a fit of self serving ego, I laid out all of my tenugui in my dojo, at least the ones I could find anyway. It seems that there must be another box somewhere with more, but I'll be darned if I can find it.

Serving no purpose, but offering it for your inspection anyway. Here is what 140 tenugui look like if spread out like a quilt. It would have been more spectacular if I could have convinced myself to open the souvenir ones...

http://www.idaho-kendo.com/Photos/Images_2007/tenugui_L.jpg

I hope to zap a better picture with a "real camera" and update the website later this week.


OMG, that's a massive collection!

[cesarekim]

I simply can't wait until we meet and get to do kendo together. Underwear... now that's a new one.

Do you find it necessary to ascertain that they're clean before making this commitment, or do you simply live life dangerously and slip them over your head without checking...

Well, I did have 30 feet of cotton to play with.... I got sumo undies (CLEAN :rolleyes: ) from a friend about 20 years ago. I actually clipped a piece off about 5-6 years ago to make a on the fly tenogui. It was the most uncomfortable one I ever used. I've thought about using boxer shorts (the stretchy ones) a couple of times but I remembered the sumo underwear incident and have desisted...

[kartoffelngeist]

I guess its the sedimental value that counts, not the cool design.

If it has that much sedimental value, you should maybe think about giving it a wash........

[lucy]

If it has that much sedimental value, you should maybe think about giving it a wash........

Priceless!! :D Thanks. :D

[Ookami]

I guess I'll have to design my ideal tenugui------
u_u

[Newbie]

I got given a tenogoui at the National Iaido/Jodo gradings yesterday by Oda Sensei. At first I thought "sweet! a hachidan has given me a cool tenegoui for kendo". Until I showed it to someone to translate and found out that it's a commerative one from when he became hanshi.

I don't think I'll be wearing that one. Reckon I'll stick to my red patterned one or my club tenegoui.

[Cobra51]

I also need to make my own unique tenugui.:)

[ScottUK]

May I ask why? Is your kendo that unique?

[Kuma]

May I ask why not, ScottUK? You seem to imply that there is something wrong with expressing individualism within a fairly narrow framework. Is there some benefit to your kendo if you purchase a tenugui from e-bogu or some such rather than making your own? Aside from the obvious, of course. I'd imagine that most would not be so foolish as to fashion themselves dayglo tenugui.

[ScottUK]

I'm an illustrator by trade and therefore am pretty creative. However, I don't see the point in customising everything like some people enjoy doing. I don't see the harm in stickers on the do, meaningful warrior quotes on tenegui, pretty little flowers on the tsukagawa etc, but to go out of your way to create something that ultimately won't affect you kendo is a bit pointless in my opinion.

When I line up against someone during keiko, I want them to think "oh jeez, here's the guy with the fearsome X-waza" not "haha here's the berk with the handmade Seven Samurai towel on his head. Muppet."

Just my £0.02 (inc. VAT) - you may feel otherwise, but kendo is kendo and Paris Fashion Week just isn't.

[Kuma]

But if it is so pointless, why bother to get worked up about it? Or post for that matter? If something seems silly but harmless to me, I wouldn't bother to make someone feel like they are doing something inappropriate.

I suppose that I just don't understand the logic of the kendo police who seem to enjoy pointing out anything that doesn't match their view of kendo. I have noticed however, that these criticisms rarely seem to come from japanese who have been raised with kendo. Maybe they are more secure in their kendo than others and don't feel the need to take others down a notch.

[ScottUK]

I'm far from 'worked up about it' but surely I am allowed to offer my thoughts? Bloody forum police... :)

[Kuma]

You could say that I'm just doing the same. If the original poster is subject to criticism, then what makes any of us exempt? Wouldn't really call it policing, though. That's more like what I was complaining about myself.

[Robobob]

It is good for our kendo to take care of our bogu and to fold our hakama neatly. Why shouldn´t it be good for our kendo too, to put effort and concentration into our equipment by creating parts of it ourselves?

[Kuma]

Well-stated, Robobob. You managed to say what I had originally meant to post, but I got myself off track. :)

[ScottUK]

Why shouldn´t it be good for our kendo too, to put effort and concentration into our equipment by creating parts of it ourselves?Knock yourselves out. I'm not saying you shouldn't - I just don't see the point myself.

[Newbie]

Why shouldn´t it be good for our kendo too, to put effort and concentration into our equipment by creating parts of it ourselves?


Why do some people look down on coloured do and dogi that isn't blue or white? When you know the answer to this, you'll understand.


Or post for that matter?

Err.. this is a forum. Not somewhere where you post and anyone who disagrees with you can't.

[Kuma]

I didn't say anything about those who disagree with a post just keeping their mouths shut, now did I? What I said was, why bother to post if you admittedly don't really care and just want to mildly flame someone? Where is the spirit of kendo in that? Who cares if this is a free and open forum? How well does it reflect on your kendo to go around posting like the kendo police and ragging on people?

Go ahead and post whatever you want, of course. But again, why bother to post if all you want to do is bring someone down. If you had some constructive criticism, well that's a different story. But I don't need to be hassled for pointing out a uselessly snarky post, fercryinoutloud.

"Is your kendo that unique?" Aww, come on. You know you were being a jerk. Was it so wrong for me to call you on it?

[ScottUK]

Sure it was. I find it tragic that everyone needs to be 'individual' or 'different'. I wasn't being a jerk, just displaying my opposition to this desire to stand out from the crowd.

You wanna stand out? Do good kendo.

[Kuma]

You disagree=wrong? Some excellent logic there. How exactly does one or two posts about homemade tenugui translate into "everyone needs to be 'individual' and 'different'?" Sounds like someone has some issues.

And I think that we discussed the old "shut and do more kendo" rigamarole elsewhere here, so let's not start that garbage again. Man! This thread is about tenugui, for crying out loud. Why can't someone post about tenugui? If we go by your logic, ScottUK, then none of us should bother to reply to anything not directly related to kendo technique here.

I get the crusty old crank act already. We can't have any pudding unless we eat our meat. Can we just drop it now?

Let's get back to the topic already. No one has mentioned anything about my question regarding "plus-sized" tenugui. Mine is awfully hard to get to fit right. It just doesn't cover my head. I have a lot of hair, though, so maybe that's the issue. I'd say that I should just make my own tenugui, but for some reason, I think that may be a bad idea.

[ScottUK]

Not at all. If your needs require you make a tenegui, then I don't see any issue with that.

If a person can't be doing with the perfectly good tenegui that is out there just because of the design, then yep, issues come to mind.

[euclid]

When I line up against someone during keiko, I want them to think "oh jeez, here's the guy with the fearsome X-waza"


AH! I hate the X-waza! I only truly feared katate tsuki until I first experienced the deadly X-waza.

:silly:

[ScottUK]

Have I fenced you? :D

[Kuma]

The X-waza is nothing unless accompanied by the terrifying Barry White kiai.

[euclid]

The X-waza is nothing unless accompanied by the terrifying Barry White kiai.


The Barry White kiai trumps all waza as, if done properly, it causes your opponent to instantly swoon.

:D

[Kuma]

I myself prefer a combination Al Green/Mills Lane "LET'S GET IT ON!" kiai. S'funky.

[Cobra51]

May I ask why? Is your kendo that unique?

I just think it would be a fun thing to do some time. I most certainly do not wish to stand out.

[Paikea]

Let's get back to the topic already. No one has mentioned anything about my question regarding "plus-sized" tenugui. Mine is awfully hard to get to fit right. It just doesn't cover my head. I have a lot of hair, though, so maybe that's the issue. I'd say that I should just make my own tenugui, but for some reason, I think that may be a bad idea.If you've got a fat head, just go buy a couple yards of medium-coarse linen and cut a few to fit.

As for the hair, number 2 clippers works great for me. Like velcro...

[Kuma]

If you've got a fat head, just go buy a couple yards of medium-coarse linen and cut a few to fit.

As for the hair, number 2 clippers works great for me. Like velcro...

Was I just insulted? You're lucky that I'm far too simple to take offense.

[Cobra51]

I'm an illustrator by trade and therefore am pretty creative. However, I don't see the point in customising everything like some people enjoy doing. I don't see the harm in stickers on the do, meaningful warrior quotes on tenegui, pretty little flowers on the tsukagawa etc, but to go out of your way to create something that ultimately won't affect you kendo is a bit pointless in my opinion.

When I line up against someone during keiko, I want them to think "oh jeez, here's the guy with the fearsome X-waza" not "haha here's the berk with the handmade Seven Samurai towel on his head. Muppet."

Just my £0.02 (inc. VAT) - you may feel otherwise, but kendo is kendo and Paris Fashion Week just isn't.

By the way, I haven't even seen Seven Samurai.:D

[Paikea]

Was I just insulted? You're lucky that I'm far too simple to take offense.Were these not your own words?


My head is hyuge. Looks like an orange on a toothpick. Has its own atmosphere.

Seriously, it's funny when folks get all worked up about their fashion statements...

[ScottUK]

By the way, I haven't even seen Seven Samurai.:DThen you ARE an individual... :D

[Cobra51]

Am I missing out?:cry:

[ScottUK]

Yes, big time. Go rent/buy it ASAP...

[dwez]

I'm an illustrator by trade and therefore am pretty creative. However, I don't see the point in customising everything like some people enjoy doing.

I don't see how YOU wouldn't want to customise your bogu. As a graphic designer I have no real skills in doing so but after seeing that 'hairy do' thread I would want to do something. Although I have more common sense than to start dismantling my armour.

No I don't wan't to stand there looking like Bozo the clown - I'm not after an indigo prom dress. I'd want to make something cool for me and that's purely because of my creativity. You of all people would know there is sophistication in design and using fun fur as a tengui wouldn't be it, but a hand painted piece of fabric that may mean something to you than that could be. If it's about individualism then I don't see that as a reason to do one, but if it's about exercising your creativity [so long as it's done well] then I'd encourage anyone to give it a go.

Maybe this might help you understand why folks want to do something with their bogu


This is my rifle. There are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy, who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will. Before God I swear this creed: my rifle and myself are defenders of my country, we are the masters of my enemy, we are the saviors of my life. So be it, until there is no enemy, but peace. Amen.

Substitute bogu or shinai for rifle...

[ScottUK]

I would love to airbrush my do, but kendo ain't a RBSO fashion parade... if you want sexy bogu or inspiring tenegui, no probs - but to strive to be unique through things you own is a bit sad IMHO.

[Newbie]

There is a reason everyone looks the same in kendo. Understand that and perhaps you will understand more about kendo.

[Kuma]

Thank you, master.

[Paikea]

Maybe time to lock this thread?

[Cobra51]

I would love to airbrush my do, but kendo ain't a RBSO fashion parade... if you want sexy bogu or inspiring tenegui, no probs - but to strive to be unique through things you own is a bit sad IMHO.

I never said I wanted to stand out. Like I said, I don't want to bring attention to myself. And yes, maybe it is about the right time to lock this thread.

[Cobra51]

There is a reason everyone looks the same in kendo. Understand that and perhaps you will understand more about kendo.

I understand that people look the same in kendo, but if looking the same is so important, then why did the samurai have elaborate and unique armor?

[Kuma]

Yeah, this is an interesting discussion, but so far off topic that it should probably be continues elsewhere (not that it hasn't been beaten to death dozens of times, I'm sure).

[dwez]

Yeah, this is an interesting discussion, but so far off topic that it should probably be continues elsewhere (not that it hasn't been beaten to death dozens of times, I'm sure).

Actually I think its still on topic, though maybe not specifically about tenegui. Clearly a lot of people strongly believe doing something to stand out, just to stand out is contemptuous. I agree it's an interesting discussion but I think the crux is the expression of individuality on what is seen as a form of uniformity.

[ScottUK]

Maybe a new thread is in order to discuss?

In fact, here you go...

http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/showthread.php?p=232001

[Newbie]

why did the samurai have elaborate and unique armor?

I thought armour was provided by your daimyo and bore their mon and colours or those of their school? I thought if you stood out you were saying "ha! here I am, I'm so good, I'm so flashy"

This just comes from what I've managed to glean from here and there, however with no historical basis. If someone has historical reference for either side (even if I'm wrong) I'd be really, really interested.

I gotta admit, sometimes I can only tell who's who by what tenegoui someone's wearing. But I was under the impression, and taught, that kendoka are uniform in appearance because to go out of your way to be flashy and stand out is an insult to your dojo. You're saying you're not one of them, you're different, you're better. You should stand out because of your skill.

That said we got plenty of people in the dojo with coloured do but most of them are new to MA or are kids and none with really bright colours, just the dark reds or blue.

BTW Kuma, as for your lovely little comment you left in my rep - it's nice that in your club only shodan and above are allowed to advise. This isn't your club. This is an open forum. I don't believe I've given any advice other than if you understood kendo better, you would understand why kendoka don't seek to stand out in their appearance.

[ScottUK]

I was under the impression, and taught, that kendoka are uniform in appearance because to go out of your way to be flashy and stand out is an insult to your dojo. You're saying you're not one of them, you're different, you're better. You should stand out because of your skill.The nail has been hit on the head. Nice one Newb...

[Neil Gendzwill]

This is my rifle.
Substitute bogu or shinai for rifle...
Try customising your rifle in the army and see how far that gets you.

[ScottUK]

Ouch.

Never saw that coming... :)

[JSchmidt]

I understand that people look the same in kendo, but if looking the same is so important, then why did the samurai have elaborate and unique armor?

Are you a samurai?

[ScottUK]

Ouch revisited.

[Paikea]

Try customising your rifle in the army and see how far that gets you.A pile of sand, a shovel with holes and a whole new concept of motivation.

[dwez]

Try customising your rifle in the army and see how far that gets you.

I think in the British army they're still waiting for rifles to be issued, well that's what the papers keep saying anyway...

[satsumaruma]

Actually,

soldiers customise stuff all the time, have always done so and probably always will. They borrow off soldiers from other countries when it suits as well.


BTW Kuma, as for your lovely little comment you left in my rep - it's nice that in your club only shodan and above are allowed to advise. This isn't your club. This is an open forum. I don't believe I've given any advice other than if you understood kendo better, you would understand why kendoka don't seek to stand out in their appearance.
__________________

Oh Kuma, is there any need for that. If you are not happy with what someone is saying to you PM them and discuss like adults. (presuming that is you are, or are almost, an adult).

TBH I thought Newbie made a reasonable comment - if you did not, then fine. But either discuss it sensibly on an open forum or talk via a PM or ignore it -petty name calling ( and yes I have seen it) does you no credit especially when you are slagging off one member to another.

[Kuma]

Hey hey hey, now. Lay off. You are presuming a lot here, Satsumaruma, form just one side of the story. Newbie and I were indeed PMing. What he neglected to mention is that he first decided to copy his first post into a snarky little hit to my rep. I just figured that I would return his hit in kind, if that was what he thought was appropriate. I, however, did not mention it in here to gain sympathy as in, "oh poor me, my rep has been wronged." I figured that if he wanted to trade flames, that it would be better done in private, but I see that he decided to post my private comments in the public forum. Classy.

But since he decided to bring it in here, (presumably to make me look like the bad guy, or something) what I took issue with was someone of no rank throwing platitudes in my face, when he clearly had no more right to do so than I. The difference being that I ask questions here; I don't come here to do my best impression of a "Kung-Fu" episode.

Obviously, this all started when I took issue with what I saw as a flame at someone making a simple statement. If ScottUK's opinion had been presented as such, then there would have been no problem. But his "so unique" comment really rankled. I felt that there was no need for such a nasty response. And does anyone really think that offering advice in such a tone would lead to it being welcome, let alone heeded?

Sorry that this escalated. I know that I am new, and even if I think that some senior member is being a dick, well everyone else is used to it by now I suppose, so I should probably just keep it to myself. Whatever. I'll just shut up and do more kendo. :D

My last point would be just what my wise and wonderful wife had to say about this situation: In forums, especially those that attempt to create a cohesive community (as I supposed that this was), if ya' can't say anything nicely don't say anything at all.

[Kingofmyrrh]

Hey hey hey, now. Lay off. You are presuming a lot here, Satsumaruma, form just one side of the story. Newbie and I were indeed PMing. What he neglected to mention is that he first decided to copy his first post into a snarky little hit to my rep. I just figured that I would return his hit in kind, if that was what he thought was appropriate. I, however, did not mention it in here to gain sympathy as in, "oh poor me, my rep has been wronged." I figured that if he wanted to trade flames, that it would be better done in private, but I see that he decided to post my private comments in the public forum. Classy.

But since he decided to bring it in here, (presumably to make me look like the bad guy, or something) what I took issue with was someone of no rank throwing platitudes in my face, when he clearly had no more right to do so than I. The difference being that I ask questions here; I don't come here to do my best impression of a "Kung-Fu" episode.

Obviously, this all started when I took issue with what I saw as a flame at someone making a simple statement. If ScottUK's opinion had been presented as such, then there would have been no problem. But his "so unique" comment really rankled. I felt that there was no need for such a nasty response. And does anyone really think that offering advice in such a tone would lead to it being welcome, let alone heeded?

Sorry that this escalated. I know that I am new, and even if I think that some senior member is being a dick, well everyone else is used to it by now I suppose, so I should probably just keep it to myself. Whatever. I'll just shut up and do more kendo. :D

My last point would be just what my wise and wonderful wife had to say about this situation: In forums, especially those that attempt to create a cohesive community (as I supposed that this was), if ya' can't say anything nicely don't say anything at all.
I shouldn't worry about it too much. As it happens, Newbie is not a he but a she, and judging from past interaction Satsumarama's just being protective more than having a genuine issue with you - nothing wrong with that either.

[Kuma]

I regret the gender presumption. Wholly a hotheaded mistake on my part. I usually err on the side of female, but when I type quickly, I apparently tend to fall back on cultural conventions in that regard.

My apologies.

[ScottUK]

If ScottUK's opinion had been presented as such, then there would have been no problem. But his "so unique" comment really rankled. I felt that there was no need for such a nasty response. And does anyone really think that offering advice in such a tone would lead to it being welcome, let alone heeded?I wasn't offering advice, I was enquiring as to the need to be so individual. Thanks for playing.

[Cobra51]

I thought armour was provided by your daimyo and bore their mon and colours or those of their school? I thought if you stood out you were saying "ha! here I am, I'm so good, I'm so flashy"

This just comes from what I've managed to glean from here and there, however with no historical basis. If someone has historical reference for either side (even if I'm wrong) I'd be really, really interested.

I gotta admit, sometimes I can only tell who's who by what tenegoui someone's wearing. But I was under the impression, and taught, that kendoka are uniform in appearance because to go out of your way to be flashy and stand out is an insult to your dojo. You're saying you're not one of them, you're different, you're better. You should stand out because of your skill.

That said we got plenty of people in the dojo with coloured do but most of them are new to MA or are kids and none with really bright colours, just the dark reds or blue.

BTW Kuma, as for your lovely little comment you left in my rep - it's nice that in your club only shodan and above are allowed to advise. This isn't your club. This is an open forum. I don't believe I've given any advice other than if you understood kendo better, you would understand why kendoka don't seek to stand out in their appearance.

You seem to have your facts straight, so you are right, I am wrong.:sleeping:

[satsumaruma]

Hey hey hey, now. Lay off. You are presuming a lot here, Satsumaruma, form just one side of the story. Newbie and I were indeed PMing. What he neglected to mention is that he first decided to copy his first post into a snarky little hit to my rep. I just figured that I would return his hit in kind, if that was what he thought was appropriate. I, however, did not mention it in here to gain sympathy as in, "oh poor me, my rep has been wronged." I figured that if he wanted to trade flames, that it would be better done in private, but I see that he decided to post my private comments in the public forum. Classy.

Don't trade flames - discuss. Much much nicer. If you felt Newbie was wrong just tell her so and why you feel that. By writing what you did just inflames things. As it happens Newbie and I only get on well now because we had a disagreement on theses forums but some reasonse sensible PMing allowed each of us to see each others viewpoint. This aint rocket science.


The difference being that I ask questions here; I don't come here to do my best impression of a "Kung-Fu" episode.

You see, do you know you are using inflammatory remarks? This could imply that you think Newbie was doing her best impression of a kung fu episode - whatever that means.


Obviously, this all started when I took issue with what I saw as a flame at someone making a simple statement. If ScottUK's opinion had been presented as such, then there would have been no problem. But his "so unique" comment really rankled. I felt that there was no need for such a nasty response. And does anyone really think that offering advice in such a tone would lead to it being welcome, let alone heeded?

Was Scott's comment aiimed at you? If it was I missed it. If not - why get involved. If the person he aimed the comment was not happy they should say so. How do you know Scott was not teasing someone he gets on well with on these forums. Scott and I regularly pass jibes here and we know each other very well even been on the GB Iaido squad together


so I should probably just keep it to myself. Whatever. I'll just shut up and do more kendo.

Maybe, or try to be more reconciliatory. Or let your wife write your posts for you:wink:


if ya' can't say anything nicely don't say anything at all.

Amen to that ( although sometimes my mantle slips a tad:cheeky: )


Newbie is not a he but a she, and judging from past interaction Satsumarama's just being protective more than having a genuine issue with you - nothing wrong with that either.

Ooh we've been rumbled Newbs.

Lee

[Newbie]

u seem to have your facts straight, so you are right, I am wrong

Errr.. about which bit, Cobra? If it's the armour thing, if you've found any historical evidence that proves me right or wrong, I'd love to hear it. I'm just hoping I'm not mixing up stuff I've half heard and historical fiction which isn't exactly the most reliable source. I think I'm right but not sure.


just being protective more than having a genuine issue

Oi! Kingofmyrrh, what exactly are you implying...? Oh wait, I'm one of the Smutty Samuraiettes ;) Fair call. But Sats on the other hand is a find and upstanding gentleman in the community. Poor, poor lad that he is.

Okay Kuma, here we go. Whilst I admire your apology (for things escalating, I'm not implying you've personally apologised to anyone but it's certainly raised the level of respect a little I have for you) I feel I need to say a couple things.

Firstly, I didn't offer advice. I made a statement, a suggestion. Advising and suggesting are not the same thing. "I advise you try the chocolate icecream, I've had it, it's delicious" as opposed to "I suggest you try the coconut, it could be nice".

Secondly, if you try to bring in aspect of kendo into your life (as most of us do) then you obviously recognise how closely kendo is linked to budo. That being the case in the Hagukare it states that you should act in private and when at home as though you would in public. You complained that I made a private comment public. Why? Were you ashamed of your words? If you were not ashamed of your words then there is no need to be upset (I doubt you're ashamed of what you said). However if you were ashamed of them then they should not have been typed in the first place.

This is an open forum. People type from the comfort of their homes and offices. You seem to me to make far, far too many assumptions. First of all, my gender (for which you have already apologised). That I am mundasha that I know nothing. You don't know why I haven't graded yet, for all I've been doing kendo for twenty months. And I am graded in jodo and iaido. I just spent seven straight days training from eight in the morning to four in the afternoon under the gaze of iaido and jodo sempai and sensei ranking from local nidan to Japanese hachidan hanshi. During a recent bout of extreme boredom when I couldn't train for weeks in any art my sempai set me a budo-related essay on kendo, iaido and jodo. Even during my idle times, I'm not idle in my training, even when it can't be physical training. Of course you weren't to know this. But you assumed.

Also, it has been clearly stated on these forums before (though being new to the forums, as you say, you wouldn't be aware of this) that whilst rank is respected and recognised, everyone is allowed their say. This doesn't mean everyone has to play nice and agree with each other but you can say "sorry Newbie, I'll take Sensei Neil's word over yours".

Dah. Tired. Am I making sense?

Anyway, back to tenegoui, I only have four (one a recent acquisition). All except one are plain white with kanji. The other one was the first one I got and is red with a pattern on it. Whilst i agree with uniformity in kendo, I agree with the principals and am not going to be anal about it (but if people are discussing it, i'll tell 'em my thoughts and what i was taught...). Like I said, we got people with different coloured do but none of the dan grades in our club have coloured do, interestingly enough. I really don't mind tenegoui as the one flair of clothing individualism though. And it can make it easier to tell who's who under the men plus gives a little outlet to our creativity and sense of self.

Still not sure if I'm making sense. I'll stop typing now.

[ScottUK]

Was Scott's comment aiimed at you? If it was I missed it.You missed nothing - it was not aimed at Kuma.

[satsumaruma]

Scott was trying to give the new guy a way out and let him save some face - I knew perfectly well you had not aimed anything at him.

Bloody hell ...I must be ill....I am trying to be nice.........

I wonder what I have come down with? Ebola? Dysentery? Yellow fever? Jaundice? Malaria?


Brilliant...some time off work.

[Neil Gendzwill]

That being the case in the Hagukare it states that you should act in private and when at home as though you would in public. You complained that I made a private comment public. Why? Armchair philosophising aside, posting private messages or email publicly without permission is considered bad netiquette, and has been since people ran dial-up BBSes. I take a pretty dim view of it, unless there is a good reason. In short, if you take it to PMs, keep it there.

[Kenzan]

I wonder what I have come down with? Ebola? Dysentery? Yellow fever? Jaundice? Malaria?


You've come down with severe case of The British, I'm afraid.
Quite incurable you know.
My most sincere condolences..naturally.
:D

[pgsmith]

I thought armour was provided by your daimyo and bore their mon and colours or those of their school? I thought if you stood out you were saying "ha! here I am, I'm so good, I'm so flashy"
That is essentially correct. Those of very high rank often wore quite elaborate armor, but that was so they could be immediately seen by their troops since they often gave orders through gestures. Body guards and messengers also were known to wear elaborate armor at times in order to increase their ability to be seen in a crowd.

[satsumaruma]

You've come down with severe case of The British, I'm afraid.
Quite incurable you know.
My most sincere condolences..naturally.
:D

Not the British but even worse....
Yankoo doodle namby pamby:silly: :silly: :silly:

[Kenzan]

Not the British but even worse....
Yankoo doodle namby pamby:silly: :silly: :silly:

You (chomp) be Siwent! (smack!)

Ewf My mouwf wavnt sfo fow uf (burp) lawd-fiwed-Chiwi-cheef-hod dogdz an' watewy beeow, (sip) An' ef I cowd moof my (chew) fat American assf off dif cowchf, an' drowp da remotdth, (Food particles fly)
I'd gib you whaf foor, you inferbnal Monarcisft! (Gulp!)

..An vat goef doubow fo your ped Monkehtfh!
:D

[Newbie]

I take a pretty dim view of it, unless there is a good reason. In short, if you take it to PMs, keep it there.

Yeah, I s'pose you're right Neil. I didn't take it to PMs. I guess I just got annoyed with the flood of nasty PMs on top of the nasty message on my rep from this guy. I think I felt that cos the forum has the PMs he could slag me off in private with things he daren't say in public. After the week I've had, I wasn't putting up with it. But now tis Saturday. Onward and upward.

[bobdonny]

That is essentially correct. Those of very high rank often wore quite elaborate armor, but that was so they could be immediately seen by their troops since they often gave orders through gestures. Body guards and messengers also were known to wear elaborate armor at times in order to increase their ability to be seen in a crowd.

Bollox.............. twas so they could get the chics.............. :old_man:
Deep down its why any of us wear cool tenuguis, its for the chics ;)

[ScottUK]

Oh yeah, I can see them now, fighting over the sweaty bruised & battered kenshi - just for the fragrance...

[bobdonny]

and the japanese baths ;)

[Robobob]

Oh yeah, I can see them now, fighting over the sweaty bruised & battered kenshi - just for the fragrance...
Yeah, we might look cool and be tough-guys. :silly: The smell will keep them away anyways...:gasmask:

[Fonsz]

Yeah, we might look cool and be tough-guys. :silly: The smell will keep them away anyways...:gasmask:
Speak for yourself, maybe your smell scares the maidens away. The majority here get more attention because of it!:shocked::silly:

[Robobob]

Well, there are different types of attention...

[Fudo-Shin]

On the subject of Tenugui again....I heard a while ago that when you go for Dan grading you should wear only a white coloured tenugui, in order not to stand out too much. Is there any truth in this?

[bobdonny]

On the subject of Tenugui again....I heard a while ago that when you go for Dan grading you should wear only a white coloured tenugui, in order not to stand out too much. Is there any truth in this?

Depends on the judging panal, but i expect they will me more interested in your basics.

[satsumaruma]

Ewf My mouwf wavnt sfo fow uf (burp) lawd-fiwed-Chiwi-cheef-hod dogdz an' watewy beeow, (sip) An' ef I cowd moof my (chew) fat American assf off dif cowchf, an' drowp da remotdth, (Food particles fly)
I'd gib you whaf foor, you inferbnal Monarcisft! (Gulp!)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kenzan again.

Why? Why must I give it to someone less desrving just so I can give it to someone who made me laugh.

This is discrmination.

Right. Who can I sue?:dead: