Japanese Immigration article in NY Times

[IRJ]

This is sort of a continuation of the discussion in the Kendo section of the Forums titled "Japanese Society Rotting Away?"

The NY Times had a front page article today called "Insular Japan Needs, but Resists, Immigration." I thought it was pretty good, and not quite as biased as I would expect from the NY Times.

I was just thinking that it's kind of funny that something as negative as money and greed might eventually be the thing that motivates Japan to start being less introverted and a better country all-around.

They also have some really interesting numbers on Japan's decling birth rate. I had no idea they have such a huge potential problem. I know that Canada has the same problem and offsets it with huge immigration.

Do people think Japan will open up its borders or not?

[kendomushi]

Japan may open its borders, but it will not open the rolls of citizenship. At the current rate, I think in a few hundred years Japan may virtually cease to exist as a people, or perhaps they will go the way of some American Indian tribes that offer membership (or citizenship in Japan's case) to anyone who can prove even 1/12 Japanese ancestry? By the same token, rules that require a person wanting Japanese citizenship to be able to speak, read, and write fluently make perfect sense to me and I'm surprised not every nation has similar requirements.
That being said, Japan is changing whether it wants to or not. There is now a foriegner, caucasian European gentleman as I recall, in the Diet. He has Japanese citizenship and is the first person of foriegn birth to serve in such a role.
To combat the declining birth rate, the idiot politicians here have made some incredibly stupid comments:
"Women who have many children should be rewarded with greater social security pensions. Those who do not have children should be denied them." Former PM Yoshiro Mori
"Gang rape shows that the persons who do it are still vigorous (have a healthy sexual appetite), and that is ok." Liberal Democratic Party Dietman Seichi Ota

[iwatekenshi]

I have plenty to say about this but I'm too busy at work today to reply however here is the link to the article. I thought it was good as well. It certainly sums up the situation here.

http://nytimes.com/2003/07/24/international/asia/24JAPA.html

[Richie224]

Apparently a declining Birth rate is problematic of many western states. They are already talking about increasing the retirement age to 70 in the UK due to the Social Security infrastructure not being able to sustain pensioners.

[aru-ma]

I see the main trend is the decline of family values, people dont see having a family as they use to 40 years ago. Less people are attracted in having their own family mainly because they either think its a burden or are not able to support a family, Japan as was pointed out gives the extreme example of the decline in both birth-rate and family. Countries such as Brittain and Australia are pushing to 'revive' these old family values to increase the birth-rate, however with the current economic and social situation it is difficult for both the numbers of family and birthrate to go up.

on a side note, a freind of mine actually goes as far as saying Japan is the old people's capital of the world, I wonder how true that is.

[Hyaku]

Originally posted by Richie224
Apparently a declining Birth rate is problematic of many western states. They are already talking about increasing the retirement age to 70 in the UK due to the Social Security infrastructure not being able to sustain pensioners.


Now that I find shocking. In Japan there is a similar problem

But as one get older comes the realization of how long you may have left in this world. The thought that would have to work until one nears death is a far from exiciting prospect.

I dont mind the working bit as long as they dont mess about with the age you can get benefit from. If you have paid your contribution for years that would be a real slap in the face.

Hyaku

[IRJ]

It makes sense that industrialised countries would have little or no birth rate, considering that urban centers, where most people are concentrated now, always have low birth rates.

I don't really see this as a problem as long as countries use immigration to maintain healthy population levels and demographics. Either that or encourage larger families through financial subsidies, etc. However, I think the first option is better because there is already too much overpopulation in the world (relative to how poorly we distribute the world's food and water supply).

[kendomushi]

The declining birth rate problem is worse in Japan because in addition to fewer young people, you have the longest average life expectancy in the world.

Immigration is not a viable option in Japan because it is largely a homogeneous society. We foriegners are tolerated, accepted for the most part, but we still make up only a hair over 1% of the population. Japan is insular in many ways and wishes to protect itself as the nation and people of Japan. This makes immigration less tolerated on average. To this end the laws on gaining a permanent resident alien status or citizenship in Japan are some of the toughest in the world. Even trying to extend or renew a visa to stay here can be difficult. There are many stories of people who go to an interview for extension when their visa to learn the language is running out and if they speak fairly well, they are refused outright.

Japan will never turn to large scale immigration to bolster its population. Most foriegners would also have a very difficult time blending themselves into Japanese society as anything but foriegn visitors. So, unless Japan suddenly becomes some place other than Japan, immigration will not help here.

[IRJ]

Hmm, I would hate to see the country that created Dance Dance Revolution go the way of the dodo bird because of their own stubbornness. I hope the government tries to do something about this.

[samurai999]

IRJ,

I do understand the lower birth rates, but isn't some or a lot attributed to families sending their children abroad, not to come back? Also, Japan is crowded even though their birth rates are low. There is not much land (or money) now in Japan to support a typical family with two kids. You are considered fabulously wealthy if you own a house.

Remember that the US was created from a variety of countries and cultures (ie Spanish, French, British, Native American, Mexican) plus they made the image of the country as a free country. The only cultures I saw that created Japan were Chinese and Ainu.

My parents believe that any immigrant that is caught doing something wrong should be deported. Why? Is it because of the crazy media in Japan sensationalizing things when it is an immigrant? Maybe, but my parents grew up in the war-time and post-war Japan and believe that it definitely was better back when they were growing up when there were less immigrants. They believe that Japan will lose it's own identity if they "open the flood gates" a la the Clinton administration. The next thing they believe is that crime would ramp up, especially organized crime. Smuggling of guns, opium, and illegal black market goods and the like. The Japanese police dept. (althought really good at kendo) suck at what their primary job is. To protect and serve. They tell me day in and day out how slow the police are reacting to a murder, smuggling operation, robberies, etc. If they are this bad already, how can they control crime if the "bad crop" immigrants are let in? They already have a hard time dealing with illegal street racing, and the bousouzoku. Anyways, there are a lot of older people in Japan and they grew up in an era that was very strict, like my parents. They were told to cling to those values and that is what I believe they are doing now. I think that is where the stubbornness comes from.

My 0.02$ (US)

Tim

[kendomushi]

samurai999,
I agree with your parents, things were better here when I first came to Japan 19 years ago and there were far fewer foriegners than there are now. However, back then, people still also had jobs for life, the economy was booming, and the bubble was getting bigger and bigger. Things are much worse now, for many reasons, and more outsiders does contribute to it.
Japan, being, or believing itself to be, a largely homogeneous society is not able to absorb things from other cultures easily. If you look at it, almost everything that was adopted here from the west has somehow significantly been changed to fit the japanese culture and mind set. Mass influx of foriegners and foreign culture would be rammed down peoples throats instead of going through that slow modification that has led to acceptance of western weddings, christmas, and many other things. The result would be that Japan does become less Japanese.