Marking Kendo-gear (bogu and shinai/bokuto)

[groms]

Hi, I´m new in this forum. I´ve been watching for a while though. I want to mark my gear; bogu, bokuto, shinai, hakama.

Main question: Is kanji og katakana most appropriate? My name in katakana translates into 4 "letters" or signs if that´s better. Maybe kanji has fewer signs? So, the natural follow-up question is...: Would anyone knowing japanese be helpful in finding a kanji-translation for my name? My first name is Gunnar, translates to "gunnaru" in katakana, at least.

Also, I´ve read in previous posts that some have branded their names into their shinai and bokuto, just above the tsuba. I couldn´t quite figure if it is accepted or not, there were mixed replies... Is this an OK way to do it? (again, kanji or katakana)

Thanks. By the way, you´ve got a good forum going. :) I hope to become a part of it.

[MikeW]

You mean , I assume, that you want it marked so it can be read by someone while you are wearing/using it?

If your native language does not use kanji there's no need to use kanji, just your initials are fine. If you desire to use them it is most appropriate for a non-native to use katakana.
I sometimes mark my shinai with a fine point permanent marker in an unobtrusive part but it usually isn't necessary as typically its easy enough to keep track of what equipment is your own.

[Anime12478]

When it comes to names, I would suggest going for Katakana instead of Kanji unless you already had a Japanese/Chinese name. You can use kanji for the syllables in the name or the meaning of your name, but that can prove difficult and incomprehensible to people.

As far as branding your name on your shinai, I don't see a problem with it, but unless you have a million people in the dojo, I don't see it as something completely necessary. There are already enough distinguishing marks on the handle to be able to differentiate between them when you look at it. But if that's a path you want to take, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with it.

[groms]

Thanks for quick replies.

I don´t have a japanese name, so it seems katakana is most appropriate then.
My motive for marking is not to show off of be flashy, and mostly it´s not a real problem knowing where my gear is in our dojo. But I´m the kind of guy taking pleasure in caring for my gear, and also adding a personal touch, as long as it´s considered appropriate. I´m usually also a bit more meticulous than "magic marking" my equipment, hence the branding question. (not that I look down on people who do of course...I´m not a fanatic...)

[Big One]

I am just curious. Why can't you write it in your own language? Is it again your coolness?

[ben]

I think it's acceptable to have your name in katakana on your bogu and hakama, even if you don't live in Japan. It's a pretty normal part of kendo culture, so I personally don't see it as a sign of ego or pretentiousness.

Maybe in a few years, as kendo becomes more international, it will become the norm for people to have their names in roman letters (or Arabic script, or Cyrillic, or Thai: I'd like to see that!).

But at the moment we're all branch dojos, with the big honbu in Japan. :D

b

[Kuma]

I am just curious. Why can't you write it in your own language? Is it again your coolness?
Why bother to use anything from the country of origin? Do you refuse to use the word kendo, and instead tell people that you practice "the way of the sword?" Why not? Is it againyour coolness?

There is nothing necessarily pretentious about wanting to emulate the wonderful culture that brought us this phenomenal sport/art. If we were talking about fabricating our own mon (not that I haven't thought about it; not seriously, mind you) then there would be reason to ridicule. But as it stands, this seems like a perfectly reasonable question. And the poster has perfect manners and a good explanation for the request. There was no need to make an ass of yourself.

[Big One]

"Kendo" is a name of what you practice and it is not right to call it otherwise. It is just like if your name is Smith and if I translate into meaning, can I call you "craftman". However, I don't understand why do we have to "Japanize" our name to the point of sounding funny to the Japanese themselves. I love Kendo but I am not Japanese. It is funny that Smith in some language can be translated "S-Jack fruit". Oh come one, just admit it. It is cool to Japanize everything. :grin:

[Kuma]

I can see what you are getting at, but your response seemed overly harsh as groms didn't some across as some barkyardo fanboy.

My name is Bear, but I tell Japanese exchange students that they can call me kuma because it makes them laugh. I think that "Kuma-san" sounds like a children's show host, not necessarily the coolest thing to shoot for. :tongue:

[Big One]

By the way, thank You for call me an ass. Don't you know I am the big One? wise man!!

[Batman]

The guy just asked a question about the proper way to lable/ mark his kit, so why don't you stop being an ass?

[a.hong]

Also, I´ve read in previous posts that some have branded their names into their shinai and bokuto, just above the tsuba. I couldn´t quite figure if it is accepted or not, there were mixed replies... Is this an OK way to do it? (again, kanji or katakana)

Some people at my dojo just use permanent marker to write their names into their shinai tsuka. However, I have heard of some other places that have reservations with doing that kind of thing (that is, defacing their shinai and whatnot). I would recommend that you ask your sensei whether or not that is acceptable within your dojo.

With bogu, if at all possible try getting some kind of name tag stitched onto your kote, men, and/or tare; you can try this on your shinai bukuro too. A cheap and easy way would be to sew on a small rectangle of white cloth somewhere that isn't immediately visible and just write your name on that.

Some online stores will embroider your name into you dogi (with a cost) if you mail it to them.

A common trend I see with bokuto is to mark it in some random way, such as a carving at the butt end of the tsuka. Or, you could be unique and get a bokuto made out of a wood that no one else in the dojo owns :tongue:

As for your name itself, it might be better to write your name in your native language, simply because it makes it easier for others to read it. I have the chinese characters for my Korean name on my equipment, but few people can read it so it loses a bit of its usefulness.

[Kingofmyrrh]

As for your name itself, it might be better to write your name in your native language, simply because it makes it easier for others to read it. I have the chinese characters for my Korean name on my equipment, but few people can read it so it loses a bit of its usefulness.
Surely this is what's important? What's the point of naming your stuff if people can't read it?

[groms]

Well, call me pretentious if you will, but to me it feels more "right" with japanese characters on japanese equipment. As mentioned, everything about kendo is japanese. I have my signature on some of my equipment now, and it doesn´t look right to me. Moreover, my name has 12 characters, against 4 japanese characters, so it takes less space (allthough that argument is easily countered since my initials have 2 :) )
And even though most people at my dojo can´t read japanese (me neither for that matter), I´ll know which shinai along the wall is mine.
Mostly though, as I said, it´s for the want to personalize my gear. It´s for me to read, not everybody else.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

[yoda-waza]

Groms, I don't view your inquiry as pretentious but here is a suggestion if your goal is to personalize, as opposed to identify, your gear: instead of your European name clumsily written in a foreign script why not adopt a kanji character or two (even grass-writing script) that inspires your personal connection with kendo and use that as your moniker? Simple no?

Branding - that's for criminals. Banish the thought.

[groms]

yoda-wasa, do you mean kanji that does not have anything to do with my name? An earlier post suggested that it would not be appropriate for non-japanese to write their names in kanji, so... that would be a good solution, finding something that represents my relationship to kendo. Well, I think I need a lot more experiance and reflection on kendo to make that genuine. Personally I also think kanji is more decorative than katakana, but both look right to me, compared to my native written name.

Also, by "branding" I mean marking the shinai/bokuto with kanji or katakana with a soldering iron or similar, as was suggested in previous posts on this forum. It would look similar to the characters already on the shinai when you buy it. (There are probably some here who can tell if this works by personal experiance)

[ben]

Surely this is what's important? What's the point of naming your stuff if people can't read it?

Even if they can't read it, they'll know it's not theirs, which is the point. This was the origin of written language: symbols that gained meaning through attachment to a particular context.

It might also inspire someone to learn a little Japanese, expanding their horizons and thus removing from the word another monolinguist. Which is always a good thing.

b

[kartoffelngeist]

Don't know how well the soldering iron works, but I've seen it done with the proper tool (name's went right out of my head...) and it looks pretty cool.
Mine is engraved quite lightly in katakana. It would just look strange to have it in roman letters, imo.

[ben]

Above I meant to say "remove from the world". Obviously.

b

[groms]

"Even if they can't read it, they'll know it's not theirs, which is the point."

Yes, exactly.
Also, one of the points that I think are not answered directly in previous posts about marking shinai and bokuto, is if it´s allright to place the mark on the "blade" side, just above the tsuba (left or right). This is where katana are stamped or marked by maker or owner, isn´t it? My logic says that it´s the right place also for shinai and bokuto, but I´m not sure if that´s correct.

And about asking sensei, that goes without saying if I´m going to do it. But I don´t want to bother him with every question I have about kendo, and I´d also like more than one opinion. That´s what this forum is for, isn´t it? :)

[bullet08]

"Even if they can't read it, they'll know it's not theirs, which is the point."

Yes, exactly.
Also, one of the points that I think are not answered directly in previous posts about marking shinai and bokuto, is if it´s allright to place the mark on the "blade" side, just above the tsuba (left or right). This is where katana are stamped or marked by maker or owner, isn´t it? My logic says that it´s the right place also for shinai and bokuto, but I´m not sure if that´s correct.

And about asking sensei, that goes without saying if I´m going to do it. But I don´t want to bother him with every question I have about kendo, and I´d also like more than one opinion. That´s what this forum is for, isn´t it? :)

i think the marking should be on the tsuka, not on the blade. i almost always get my gear with my name on them, unless the service is not available. the bokken i got sometime ago, the name was on the handle and not on the blade side. i also see people putting name on their tsukagawa on shinai.

pete

[groms]

"the bokken i got sometime ago, the name was on the handle and not on the blade side."

Thanks. Where on the handle? Left side, close to tsuba?

[bullet08]

"the bokken i got sometime ago, the name was on the handle and not on the blade side."

Thanks. Where on the handle? Left side, close to tsuba?

it's been awhlle since i picked up that bokken. i know it's closer to tsuba, but not sure which side it's on. if i remember it later today, i'll take a look.

pete

[groms]

thanks, I appreciate it.

[tango]

Well, call me pretentious if you will, but to me it feels more "right" with japanese characters on japanese equipment. As mentioned, everything about kendo is japanese. I have my signature on some of my equipment now, and it doesn´t look right to me. Moreover, my name has 12 characters, against 4 japanese characters, so it takes less space (allthough that argument is easily countered since my initials have 2 :) )
And even though most people at my dojo can´t read japanese (me neither for that matter), I´ll know which shinai along the wall is mine.
Mostly though, as I said, it´s for the want to personalize my gear. It´s for me to read, not everybody else.

Thanks for the replies everyone.


Is kanji og katakana most appropriate? My name in katakana translates into 4 "letters" or signs if that´s better. Maybe kanji has fewer signs? So, the natural follow-up question is...: Would anyone knowing japanese be helpful in finding a kanji-translation for my name? My first name is Gunnar, translates to "gunnaru" in katakana, at least.


I know a guy whose last name is "White".
He ordered a zekken and wanted his name in kanji, so, they sent him a zekken with 白 on it...

Now his name reads "Shiro"... instead of "White".

Think about it.

Stick with katakana and forget about the kanji.
My 2 cents.

[namabiru]

Well, you can use either kanji -or- katakana -or- roman letters. I have a kanji for my first name, but the first one has a lot of strokes so would end up in a blob if I wrote it with a permanent marker. Marking shinai with your name on the bottom of the tsuka, near your tsuba, is the norm in Japan. Or your initials is fine. Or your first initial is cool too. I marked my first bokken with a 'J' and circle around it.

Equipment. Yeah, you can get tags made for your stuff. Mine are katakana, but that was before I had a kanji, and once again it's quite the norm to label people's things in Japan so that service was always gratis. A Do could have a mailing label with your name stuck inside, that would work.

You know how you can get iron-on patches to repair holes in clothing? I wonder how that would work as a sort of label for your men/kote. Get a blue color which would match fairly close and keep the labels small. Any thoughts?

So Gunnar, huh? Well, maybe I could come up with a kanji for you for fun when I want to think about Japanese. I know mine's a great source of pride, as my kendo friends helped me 'name' myself.

[enkorat]

Hey all,

I posted this link before but its a pretty nice article on wikipedia about Japanese naming conventions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_names

The reality of naming is a bit more convoluted, much like many other parts of Japanese culture.

As for marking equipment, it does become an issue once people start competing and grading, especially during things like lunch where 200+ people all take off their black dohs, and when you go looking for your equipment its a sea of nearly identical pieces of equipment. After my shodan exam, someone took my bokuto and left behind theirs. I wasn't too happy since it was a gift from a sensei from my club who had gone back to Japan. In the past I've also accidentally grabbed the wrong men while getting ready to line up, and a friend of mine had his new men taken during a break during a day long seminar where someone else had to leave before the end of practice.

People I know generally write their names or initials on the tsukagawa, in the middle between where the hands go, since if you write stuff where the hands go it rubs off within a few weeks. Generally most people in my club write their name in English because the majority of people in our club speak English. A Japanese student in our club wrote his last name in huge letters pretty much the entire length of the tsuka, in English. He's since graduated and left, but left his shinai behind. We've recycled that tsuka on other shinai and we joke that its become sort of a "Excalibur tsukagawa". I've written my name in Japanese on some of my shinai and its led to confusion when I've loaned them out to beginners because they had no idea what it said.

There are these custom woodbranding kits you can by to burn designs into wood, and its theoretically possible to "brand" your shinai with a small mark in the same position where a lot of more expensive shinai makers put the model name, though getting a custom brand made is around 100 dollars and as of yet I know of no person or club that had done so. I personally wouldn't invest that much mainly because a sharpie pen costs a dollar, my shinai don't last that long and I try not to get attached or overly reliant on one particular shinai.

[groms]

Ok, thanks all. Good points, all taken. Guess I´ll go with katakana, it seems most appropriate. But still, if namabiru, or anyone else for that matter, should happen to want to translate my name to kanji anyway, I´d be much abliged. It would be nice to see what it would be. My full name is Gunnar Gjerde, by the way. (the norwegian word "gjerde" means "fence", it that helps any..)

[ben]

You sometimes have to be careful of seemingly inoffensive kanji that may, unbeknownst to you, carry some nasty cultural baggage.

For instance I saw a pic on some blog of an attractive young American (female) tourist in China wearing a tshirt with a single character on it, the character for "chicken". The commentary from the Chinese blogger was that this woman obviously didn't know that "chicken" was commonly slang for "prostitute".

BTW I loved that wiki link above, thanks Enkorat. I particularly the cleverness of turning "Edgar Allan Poe" into "Edogawa Ranpo"! Brilliant!

b

[namabiru]

Ha ha ha, yeah, it's kind of like how you'll see people in Asia wearing clothing with nonsensical English (http://www.engrish.com for a laugh), but then again you'll see people walking around with kanji that makes no sense, but because it "looks cool".

Now, one thing that can happen is a western name might have to be bent to fit kanji. That's what the link says, and I can attest. My name is Jessica, but my kanji reading is 'jishika', which is a sort of bend on my katakana of jeshika, but as people may know there is no 'je' kanji in Japanese.

Gunnar, though, may be doable in 3 kanji, using the katakana of gun-na-ru, but I don't think I'll find a good kanji with the reading of 'gun'. The two 'gun' I can think of right off-hand, one means 'county' and the other is the 'gun' you'd see in 'military'. Neither of which is appropriate for a name, I think you'd agree. However, maybe we can do something with gu-na-ru. Not quite your name, I know, but it would be fairly close.

Let me see here.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Using kanji phonetically makes about as much sense as... well, something that doesn't make much sense, sorry no spappy analogy. Mark your shinai with whatever you want, but if you want Japanese people to read it and understand it, use katakana.

[Kingofmyrrh]

Using kanji phonetically makes about as much sense as... well, something that doesn't make much sense, sorry no spappy analogy. Mark your shinai with whatever you want, but if you want Japanese people to read it and understand it, use katakana.

Never was a truer word said! Still, it's what we've come to expect after 5000 (!!!!!!!) posts!

[groms]

namabiru, thanks for looking into it.
Yes, for marking gear it seems most of you think katakana the way to go, so I think I´ll use that. However, it would be interesting to see my kanji name. Neil Gendzwill; if not phonetically, do you mean one would have to find the meaning of one´s name to write it correctly in kanji? Then it would make sense that non-japanese would have difficulties, since it would be pronounced differently. Are japanese names always based on an understandable meaning? (as in "base-of-mountain" and such, seen in the wikipedia-article?) Western-culture names are often not, at least not in words we would use today.
As mentioned earlier, my last name, Gjerde, means fence. (named after a small village with the same name). I´ve also heard my first name, Gunnar, is based upon the same meaning as the english word "gunner" (rifleman), and that the closest word for it´s earliest meaning is, in norwegian, "stridsmann". Translated to english, war-man, or more correctly, warrior. Don´t know if that helps, though, since it will not be pronounced the same in japanese.
Maybe there are some on this forum with non-japanese names written in kanji. Would anyone shed some light on this? What are your kanji names based on?

[Neil Gendzwill]

Neil Gendzwill; if not phonetically, do you mean one would have to find the meaning of one´s name to write it correctly in kanji?Unless you have a Japanese, Chinese, Korean etc name, there is no way to write it correctly in kanji. Write it phonetically using katakana.

Maybe there are some on this forum with non-japanese names written in kanji.There are, and we've had this discussion many times before with regard to zekken. Of them, I'll say that just because people don't tell you directly something is goofy, doesn't mean they aren't thinking it.

[groms]

Katakana it is, then. That´s what my zekken will have anyway, so I´ll stick with that. It sounds like the thread is turning into something that has been discussed before. Thanks for advice, to those who have posted.

[kartoffelngeist]

Of them, I'll say that just because people don't tell you directly something is goofy, doesn't mean they aren't thinking it.

More very wise words from Neil...

[Big One]

Funny is I have a Chinese friend, his name is Fuk Yue :D

[namabiru]

Then you go right on thinking me goofy. Quite a few people do for other reasons, but it's more fun to be proud to be different.

My kanji was not a quick-glance through the kanji jiten choice made by drunk gaijin at the karaoke place. My kanji was a gift from 3 of my Japanese teammates, who spent hours texting one another with ideas, as well as conferring with other mothers in the dojo, before presenting me with ideas. A lot of people I care about provided input on my name, so I will wear it proudly.

My name, 慈志香, partially speaks to my name meaning, but also speaks to my personality as well. Jessica is Hebrew, and supposedly means 'God's grace'. The first kanji, 慈, is found in the word 'itsukushimu', which roughly means 'affectionate', or 'kindness'. You find it in words such as 'jiai', 'jibo', 'jihi', etc. The second kanji, 志, is found in 'kokorozashi' and 'kokorozasu' and means 'ambitious'. Gendai shin kokugo jiten defines kokorozasu as あるところを目あてにして進む, which I'd translate as 'to move to a goal with purpose'. The third kanji, 香, corresponds with 'scent', or 'perfume'. The woman's name Kaori is often written just with this kanji. In the Japanese sense, placing 香 at the end of a name makes the name quite feminine as it means mere suggestions of the previous kanji' quality rather than a full-out assigning. My former colleague, who I'd describe as being very in-tune with kanji (his writing is beautiful, so he always got stuck doing the formal writing for other people in the office), pointed to this name and exclaimed, "I love this!". He's a westernized bilingual, and if having a kanji name were inappropriate, he would have told me so. You say tatemae, I say no it wasn't. Without getting into everything, he and I went through a lot together in 2 years of working together, so there was a level of truth not found with other co-workers.

Not that some didn't think it weird for the gaijin to have kanji, mind you. Then again, those people thought anything a gaijin did, from eating with chopsticks at lunch to even eating the lunch to begin with since it had rice and Americans supposedly eat bread while Japanese eat rice, was strange. But what can you do?

Balance and meaning are important. However, sometimes parents will choose kanji they like, but assign another reading to it. This doesn't happen so much. Take the names of two women I know, 洋香 and 亜香子。 No one would probably guess they are read 'Haruka' and 'Akane'. The 'Haru', of course, is not usually represented by 洋, and a reading of 'Ne' for 子, in a country which used to name all its girls nani-nani-ko, is also unusual.

[hammu]

hi there~ I just pass by and see what happen here~ a little suggestion~ instead of using all the part of your name which is gun-na-ru, why don't you try just using gun which the kanji is 軍, it mean army~ sounds cool though~ :silly:
there is no combination between gun-na-ru in kanji, you still can make it, but it will sounds funny~

[namabiru]

Yeah, I was thinking he could use the 軍 gun kanji too. Originally, I was wondering, though, if the army or militaristic nature of the kanji would make it sort of 'okashii' (funny). I looked up the list of forbidden name kanji (obviously kanji that mean 'rape', 'death', 'cancer', etc. surpass the okashii label and aren't used), and it's not on there. In truth, any of the joyo (everyday) kanji are acceptable, as is an extra list of jinmeiyo kanji.

Since Gunnar means 'warrior', it would *seem* fitting. However, seeing it in a name, though, is a bit stange. I really don't think it would be too appropriate, as it has connotations of fighting. But it's Gunnar's kanji, not mine. I looked in a couple of Japanese name books, though, and didn't find this kanji ever being used.

I dunno, I've done a bit of looking as part of my kanji study, and it's that 'gu' or 'gun' which kind of throws a monkey wrench into things. The second kanji *could* be 成, which is read as the 'na' in 'naru', or in a name quite often as 'nari'. Incidentally, this is the same 成 in Narita Airport (成田). It means 'to become' or 'to take form'.

It's tough, even if you have a newborn Japanese baby 'fresh out of the oven', to use a terrible analogy--I chose that one because I just realized I had better go check my dinner, which is cooking in the oven...

[enkorat]

I've realized that there is one other thing that we haven't really touched on that is worth some degree of consideration.

A sempai friend of mine (who lurks here but doesn't normally post) and I were having a similar discussion. He told me this story of his experience, and I hope I do it sufficent justice.

When he started kendo, he came to kendo through the historical reenactment scene. Having been in this scene, he had a "character name" with an achingly well researched (as is with most reenactors and their hobby), historically accurate name. In this other hobby he was known and referred by this name.

For several years he continued to do both historical reenactment and kendo with this name, and he competed in competitions and took promotional examinations with this name. But soon his interest in Kendo changed from "something of a lark to do in addition to reenactment" to "Kendo as something very interesting and serious on its own" It was around this time that I asked him to help out with our (at the time fledgling) club in an assistant coach/mentor role. He related to me that he decided the chosen name that
he had been using up to that point was only for the "role", and that as he progressed he realized he was no longer comfortable using an assumed name as he accepted more responsibility in the training of others, and his name publicly appeared on things like our website.

At that point when he attempted to test using his real name in katakana, there an (unexpected) issue with the testing boards, because changing names on an official (though perhaps not legal) document such as a menjo other than marriage apparently requires extensive explanation. Letters had to be written and positions explained rather thoroughly.

My own opinion and de facto policy of our club has been that Kendo 'naming' especially on a zekken is for identification purposes, primarily when one is competing, representing our club, our teammates, instructors and our university. Many beginners in our club help out at tournaments before they get into bogu, and many of our members don't read Japanese or Chinese. There have been a number of times I've heard of stories where the people writing the scoreboards or trying to chase down a competitor for a ring can't find someone because they can't read a zekken, or that the name used for the application doesn't correspond to the zekken because the zekken is a different name in kanji.

Logistical issues aside, although I understand that there is a tradition of naming that is important and seems appealing to some non-Japanese because of the 'coolness' factor, it always feels to me like those people who initially choose to adopt Japanese names end up "hiding" their real identity a little, and assuming a "costume" while doing Kendo. Its hard to explain. Like the Japanese 'trappings' of Kendo are more important than the real, fun stuff. Its like we spend all this time and energy debating the appropriatesness of names and kamon and stuff, and it doesn't even begin to touch what kendo is really about or what makes it really interesting.

I think part of my perspecitve is that a lot of other martial arts try to hide things or to have tricks built into their history and structure. Kendo for the most part has felt more straight forward and honest. In that same vein we should all be proud of our real family names and the history attacted to each of our families, and be proud in our own nationalities. Would the people who want to adopt a Japanese name feel the same way if everyone was "forced" to get a Japanese name because of "tradition", like say sumo?

Regardless I think when we go out to compete, or to test, or to teach, we should hold ourselves accountable in public for our actions, and not 'hide' behind some name someone pulled out a dictionary and isn't really yours.

Just my $0.02

[hammu]

hehehe, it seems to be a tradition to have katagana and kanji in zekken~ for the country which have people that can't read kanji or katagana, like mine^^ we have both kanji/katagana and english name written in the zekken. and yeah we do have to use our own name to compete or test~ and I agree with enkorat, don't hide your own name. It's an honor to fight with your own name.

[namabiru]

I've realized that there is one other thing that we haven't really touched on that is worth some degree of consideration.

A sempai friend of mine (who lurks here but doesn't normally post) and I were having a similar discussion. He told me this story of his experience, and I hope I do it sufficent justice.

When he started kendo, he came to kendo through the historical reenactment scene. Having been in this scene, he had a "character name" with an achingly well researched (as is with most reenactors and their hobby), historically accurate name. In this other hobby he was known and referred by this name.

For several years he continued to do both historical reenactment and kendo with this name, and he competed in competitions and took promotional examinations with this name. But soon his interest in Kendo changed from "something of a lark to do in addition to reenactment" to "Kendo as something very interesting and serious on its own" It was around this time that I asked him to help out with our (at the time fledgling) club in an assistant coach/mentor role. He related to me that he decided the chosen name that
he had been using up to that point was only for the "role", and that as he progressed he realized he was no longer comfortable using an assumed name as he accepted more responsibility in the training of others, and his name publicly appeared on things like our website.

At that point when he attempted to test using his real name in katakana, there an (unexpected) issue with the testing boards, because changing names on an official (though perhaps not legal) document such as a menjo other than marriage apparently requires extensive explanation. Letters had to be written and positions explained rather thoroughly.

My own opinion and de facto policy of our club has been that Kendo 'naming' especially on a zekken is for identification purposes, primarily when one is competing, representing our club, our teammates, instructors and our university. Many beginners in our club help out at tournaments before they get into bogu, and many of our members don't read Japanese or Chinese. There have been a number of times I've heard of stories where the people writing the scoreboards or trying to chase down a competitor for a ring can't find someone because they can't read a zekken, or that the name used for the application doesn't correspond to the zekken because the zekken is a different name in kanji.

Logistical issues aside, although I understand that there is a tradition of naming that is important and seems appealing to some non-Japanese because of the 'coolness' factor, it always feels to me like those people who initially choose to adopt Japanese names end up "hiding" their real identity a little, and assuming a "costume" while doing Kendo. Its hard to explain. Like the Japanese 'trappings' of Kendo are more important than the real, fun stuff. Its like we spend all this time and energy debating the appropriatesness of names and kamon and stuff, and it doesn't even begin to touch what kendo is really about or what makes it really interesting.

I think part of my perspecitve is that a lot of other martial arts try to hide things or to have tricks built into their history and structure. Kendo for the most part has felt more straight forward and honest. In that same vein we should all be proud of our real family names and the history attacted to each of our families, and be proud in our own nationalities. Would the people who want to adopt a Japanese name feel the same way if everyone was "forced" to get a Japanese name because of "tradition", like say sumo?

Regardless I think when we go out to compete, or to test, or to teach, we should hold ourselves accountable in public for our actions, and not 'hide' behind some name someone pulled out a dictionary and isn't really yours.

Just my $0.02

This was a really interesting post. Thank you for sharing it with us! Interestingly enough, when I tested in Oita, I had to write the moshikomi 3 times, as they decided I should put western years for my birthdate as well as write my name in romaji and not katakana. Wonder if it was so there wouldn't be trouble when I inevitably tested in the States. My kanji isn't legal by any means--I still had to fill out various governmental moshikomi using my katakana.

You really bring up valid points, though, as far as most non-Japanese people not being able to read Japanese, so the kanji would be obscure. I guess I thought that that was sort of why the kenshi's last name goes at the bottom of the zekken in romaji--that way the kenshi's last name could be identified, and on the score cards you can go by last name. If there is another reason, let me know, because I'm going on assumption.

And it's not that I'm not proud of my first set of names by any means. It's just that, out of respect for my 'Japanese family', I also carry my kanji. That's just me. When I write notes to people, quite often I sign both--my name and my kanji.

But it is a very thoughtful caution to people, to not just randomly pull names out of dictionaries *without* thinking of meaning.

Interestingly enough, ian Japan, the concept of non-Japanese Asians having kanji for their name is also mind-blowing to a lot of people. My Taiwanese friend has kanji, and it was a huge fight with them when he wanted to use his own chop, which was official and the correct size, as well as his first/last name kanji to represent his name. He had to use katakana. Another story to show you that sometimes Japanese people can really be closed-minded.

Me, personally, I don't like the look of huge things of katakana across a zekken. It doesn't help that I have a long last name and long first name either, so it looks cluttered. So that's why, when I'm at a dojo long enough to buy a zekken, I'll put my kanji and then last name at the bottom. Personal taste.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Me, personally, I don't like the look of huge things of katakana across a zekken.
It's not there to look nice. It serves a function - to allow Japanese people to read your name. It should be the same as the romaji across the bottom.

[groms]

It's not there to look nice. It serves a function - to allow Japanese people to read your name. It should be the same as the romaji across the bottom.

Isn´t that a bit different form dojo to dojo? At least, in my dojo, we use first name in katakana vertically, and last name in romanji at the bottom...

[Neil Gendzwill]

It does vary from dojo to dojo. We used to do the first name in both katakana and romaji. However I got tired of being addressed as "Mr. Neil" when I travelled to other dojo or taikai so I had one made more conventionally. I guess it really depends on whether you routinely deal with Japanese people or not. If not, then whatever's in the middle doesn't matter. Internationally, the standard requirement is last name in Romaji across the bottom and dojo/country affiliation in Romaji across the top. In the middle many people put their dojo logo or in the case of international competition their national flag. But if it is kanji or katakana in the middle, then people are expecting to see your last name there.

[Hank]

It's not there to look nice. It serves a function - to allow Japanese people to read your name. It should be the same as the romaji across the bottom.Why do people get so hung up on their name tag? This whole thing is just weird to me. It smells otaku-y.

[namabiru]

Yeah, you're right. The whole thing's getting a bit long. I say we all just use whatever works well for us--katakana, kanji, romaji, however. I'm still using my zekken from Japan, which is my first name in katakana, and will probably continue to do so until I'm in a location long enough where I'll need to get another. They're quite a bit more expensive outside Japan...

[Gessho]

Never was a truer word said! Still, it's what we've come to expect after 5000 (!!!!!!!) posts!

Yea, verily.

[Gessho]

I am just curious. Why can't you write it in your own language? Is it again your coolness?

It is indeed "cool" to use kanji. The Chinese name given to me means "well-learned" and I use that character as well as my English last name on my gear. Makes me feel double-cool and I think it improves my kendo...! :evil:

[Kuma]

I don't think that the matter is really as black and white/right and wrong as some of us are making it out to be. This seems to be in line with the discussion in my first thread, the one about my bogu choices. This can probably best be summed up with the advice that I got there:
Ask your sensei what is acceptable in their dojo, and if it makes no difference to them, understand that there are conventions and defying them means that you risk drawing attention to yourself in a flashy gaijin kinda way. If you don't think that this would cause your training to suffer, and you really don't care what your fellow kendoka think of you, then do as thou wilt and brave the consequences.

[Hai_hai]

Hi, I´m new in this forum. I´ve been watching for a while though. I want to mark my gear; bogu, bokuto, shinai, hakama.

Main question: Is kanji og katakana most appropriate? My name in katakana translates into 4 "letters" or signs if that´s better. Maybe kanji has fewer signs? So, the natural follow-up question is...: Would anyone knowing japanese be helpful in finding a kanji-translation for my name? My first name is Gunnar, translates to "gunnaru" in katakana, at least.

Also, I´ve read in previous posts that some have branded their names into their shinai and bokuto, just above the tsuba. I couldn´t quite figure if it is accepted or not, there were mixed replies... Is this an OK way to do it? (again, kanji or katakana)

Thanks. By the way, you´ve got a good forum going. :) I hope to become a part of it.
I usually pee to mark my property, like dogs.

[Big One]

I usually pee to mark my property, like dogs.

To be special, you have to pee in Kanji.

[groms]

Just a follow-up; I tried marking a bamboo kitchen utensil with a soldering iron today. Works just fine, I suppose it´ll the same with the shinai.

[Hai_hai]

It does vary from dojo to dojo. We used to do the first name in both katakana and romaji. However I got tired of being addressed as "Mr. Neil" when I travelled to other dojo or taikai so I had one made more conventionally. I guess it really depends on whether you routinely deal with Japanese people or not. If not, then whatever's in the middle doesn't matter. Internationally, the standard requirement is last name in Romaji across the bottom and dojo/country affiliation in Romaji across the top. In the middle many people put their dojo logo or in the case of international competition their national flag. But if it is kanji or katakana in the middle, then people are expecting to see your last name there.
This is, of course, coming from someone with a horrendously ugly katakana last name.



Hee hee. Just kidding.

[Neil Gendzwill]

This is, of course, coming from someone with a horrendously ugly katakana last name.No lie. That's partly the reason why our club originally did first names - they were simpler, cheaper and prettier.

[namabiru]

No lie. That's partly the reason why our club originally did first names - they were simpler, cheaper and prettier.

Yeah, I think we're actually somewhat in the same court now. When I got my zekken in Japan, I went with just my first name. And it was, naturally, because I also have a horrendously long last name. 6 katakana. So I guess the 'ugly looking katakana' remark came from the fact that I've seen people with really long names in katakana, and they're just squished onto the zekken into tiny tiny little characters, and to me they just don't look nice. My first name, on the other hand, is only 3 big plus a small katakana, and that's all I use.

It's just personal opinion--first and last name both on a zekken in katakana just doesn't look right. Especially when it has to be squashed onto the zekken. Particularly as, in Japan, only the last name is used, and if you have more than one 'Uchibayashi', or 'Tsuchimoto' in the same dojo, then the first kanji of the person's first name is small down at the bottom right.

[sminch]

so how about marking your gear with a kanji-fied version of your surname if that was given to you, semi(ish) officially, by a japanese bloke?

i'm thinking about this in relation to my own situation, where i was given a hanko (name stamp) with my surname written as two kanji. this was when i was on jet - the hanko was for use clocking in at the start of each day at work. the reading is a rather unfortunate "bright flower" but what the hey, it's kanji, it was given to me by my boss, and it looks a damn sight better than katakana.

as was said above, it's not so much to helping someone else to identify my gear as me being able to tell it's mine, so i'm not too worried if anyone can read it, just that i will recognise it.

or am i just teh ghey to even think of it?

sminch

[Kuma]

It seems that this has already been addressed above and elsewhere on KW. Do whatever you'd like, but be aware that some will think you're a wanker. Namabiru has a good story behind hers, so she might be excused by those with such an inclination, but if you don't have a similar story... be warned. :scared:

[Jiyoui]

Most names don't really translate well into Japanese/Chinese.
Not that it's not possible but actually mainly superficial.
A person's name has meaning behind it.
My name for example is suppose to represent the duality and harmony of the passing of the season in the universe.

I'm pretty sure when your parents were name you, they put quite a bit of thought into it as well. You might have been named after a favorite aunt or uncle, maybe in the dying memories of their grandfather.

As many of you pointed out, there is a cultural aspect associated with it. So why not go all the way and adopt a another name in another language instead of simply trying to translate your name from one to another (which sometimes makes for awkward if not embarrassing phrases).

[Kuma]

Yeah, again, this has all been covered here, guys. Just a page or two back. I would recommend reading a thread entirely before beginning to rehash points already covered within that thread.

[sminch]

apologies - must've missed it, which will learn me for skimming threads on the sly while at work...

sminch

[Jiyoui]

yea no kidding, heck i didn't realize that this was 4, now 5 freakin pages long, who bumped this thing...

[Kuma]

No need for apologies, folks. It's good to see more new members. I'm still new here myself, but I can attest that the sempai here will teach you quite a lot, both about the forum and kendo in general.

Welcome to KW.

[katana217]

I see some of the sempai uses both kanji and english name on their zekken,
so as long as the zekken can let others to know how to address you, than should be fine~ :cheerful:

[katana217]

(軍)is a very precise translation for Gunnar, like it! i was also thinking how about (轟)? means the sound of boom~ just another suggestion~:wink:
anyhow, i dont' think katakana or kanji names make any big differences, the purpose of putting name on zekken is for others to know who you are after putting on the men. that's it.
so it doesn't really matter for me(personal prefrence) cheers~

[groms]

(?)is a very precise translation for Gunnar, like it! i was also thinking how about (?)? means the sound of boom~ just another suggestion~:wink:
anyhow, i dont' think katakana or kanji names make any big differences, the purpose of putting name on zekken is for others to know who you are after putting on the men. that's it.
so it doesn't really matter for me(personal prefrence) cheers~


Hi,
Thanks for the input. What does the first kanji mean, and how is it pronounced/translated? As for zekken, mine now has club name in kanji on top, first name in katakana in the middle, and last name in romanji at the bottom. And I´ve marked my shinai and bokuto with katakana, using a soldering iron. It works, looks good. Katakana definately looks more right than romanji, anyway. And for those who question the point of marking the gear; on a seminar this weekend, there was a bit of "hey, which one is mine?" when shinai and bokuto where lined up against the wall (especially with the bokuto). I didn´t have that problem now ;)
Three cheers for small pleasures.

[Kuma]

Where did you end up marking the shinai, groms? On the bamboo itself or on the tsuka-gawa?

[groms]

I marked it on the bamboo, right above the tsuba, on the left side. The same with the bokuto, although I saw a bit later that my sensei´s bokuto is marked on the left side, in the middle of tsuka. Seeing that, I expect that is more "correct", but noone has commented on it negatively yet, so I guess it´s allright.

[Anime12478]

For me, it doesn't really matter whether or not I use my first or last name. People who don't know me can't really tell the difference, lol. I have my last name on my Zekken, but some people do get confused when I tell them my first name.

[katana217]

Hi,
Thanks for the input. What does the first kanji mean, and how is it pronounced/translated? As for zekken, mine now has club name in kanji on top, first name in katakana in the middle, and last name in romanji at the bottom. And I´ve marked my shinai and bokuto with katakana, using a soldering iron. It works, looks good. Katakana definately looks more right than romanji, anyway. And for those who question the point of marking the gear; on a seminar this weekend, there was a bit of "hey, which one is mine?" when shinai and bokuto where lined up against the wall (especially with the bokuto). I didn´t have that problem now ;)
Three cheers for small pleasures.

hey~ the meaning of the first kanji = military (both in chinese or japanese) and in chinese(cantonese) is gwaan. in japanese is guen~ thank about it dude, why not use it as a nickname or something in the dojo:D

[katana217]

sorry, i mean "think" about it, not thank about it, typo