Illegal Men/Mori

[Old Warrior]

When your opponent goes for men/mori and you sidestep and launch your own attack, at what point must you let them pass and wait for them to turn completely around before you hit. Now that I am doing nito I find myself doing a high block with the shoto and simultaneously striking men. But, when the opponent is flying at you it is often impossible to hit the metal ring. Does that mean it is inappropriate to strike? I'm interested in more than the mere rules. Winning is secondary, being a good student is more significant.

[Nishi]

Theres some good points on the"uchi-through" thread regarding attacking when your opponents turning.

[Old Warrior]

Nishi

I read the entire thread and some things seemed to apply. But, my basic question remains the same "If you can't hit the mengane ring from the side, is the attack as the opponent is passing wrong?". I was gently rebuked (by a less than dan senior), yesterday, for I thought was one of my better cuts. I am trying to figure out whether I am wrong or if she was just miffed that she got hit.

[Nishi]

Regarding appropriate, we should be more or less facing each other....where did you exactly hit her?? When you say the side, if its sayamen, thats great...if she is facing the wall behind you as she passed and you attack at 90 degrees wrapping your shinai over her head like a rainbow, probably not good....but thats only my perspective based on what im picturing.....we need MOO COW!!!

On occaision i train with Mr Harwood (find his name in the front of your kendo world magazine), he is a very respected nito player, i will ask him how he compensates distance when attacked quickly....

I attacked him quickly a few years ago, and i remember he blocked "men" with the long sword and "tsuki'd" with shoto....man, i flew into that....lol!!!

[Old Warrior]

Picture my nito stance with my left foot forward (shoto in left). When attacked I simply pivot on my left so I am now perpendicular to the line of attack. I am striking just at the point the attacker reaches where I was. Their men is facing perpendicular to me (I am looking at the side of the mengane). As you know, the top/side is not really padded. My technique seems to me to be keeping within the spirit of the art, but it presents the possibility of inflicting pain on a fellow student. Since nito is done at a greater distance I seem to have time to execute the sidestep and shouldn't be prevented from striking an opponent who hasn't passed my original line. But, if this were an acceptable strike, I think the equipment would have been designed differently.

[Inouye02]

OW.. if you are blocking with your shoto, you are moving to your left then. when you block you should be hitting at a 45 degree to your opponent or a lil more , not at 90 degrees.. you just have to control your action , or just block and let them go by..

[Nishi]

I think you said it in your last post Old warrior..... The strike you are describing is not acceptble in kendo at our level( i cant comment on higher levels). We should be facing each other. Secondly i feel that the efforts other students put into their kendo for things like "uchi through" can sometimes be exploited and an oppurtunity to cut can be created through their limited, but honest efforts.

I wouldnt take advantage of that oppurtunity. At this point we are learning to fence, and cut, within certain limits...and its far to easy to take advantage of those who still learning. But the fact you are aware of it speaks volumes towards your mental involvment in kendo.

[kendomushi]

A full 90 degrees off a face to face position does run the risk of stinging the opponent more and ringing their ears as well.
You need to work on your speed to get the cut in before they get to that point or learn to add a little more to the waza, as taking a half step or step back as you block. This will help keep you at the right distance for the attack.

[Old Warrior]

"taking a half step or step back as you block"

Great thought. Moving away at a 45% angle would be perfect.

[Inouye02]

OW, you can block with the daito, move back striking do, just like in kaeshi do ...when trying this, move your hand close to the tsuba( if you dont have a big back step you'll hit to deep )

[misterkurukuru]

is bunny men illegal? I know some people wish it was!

[Nishi]

misterkurukuru what is a bunny men?

[Inouye02]

is that what i think it is , the waza you do ?

[taiwnezboi]

is "bunny men" when you jump up and strike men? those really hurt.. =P

[dorkusxmaximus]

haha i've done those a couple of times, but i called them "mid-air" men, but bunny men sounds so much more cuter (if it means what i think it means).

[sminki]

To clarify, this "bunny men" does not mean you jump up in the air. There may be a slight hop combined with a nuki-men type waza. The hop is what sort of comes naturally as you do the "nuki" motion.

I've heard that this "bunny men" is more a pre-war kendo thing that is more rarely done in modern kendo (although I have seen someone (I think it was Mitsunobu Sato) score a point with this as recently as the 49th All Japan Kendo Champs). Can someone shed more light on this?

Sorry to be off-topic from OW's original thread.