Does it exist?

[KhawMengLee]

G'Day!

The question I want to pose here is whether diarrokan(I think this is the word) exists?

What I refer to here is the warrior's sixth sense. An example of it can be seen in the book Musashi. The scene describes how Musashi passed an old Abbot raking the ground and felt a force coming at him and he had to take a defensive posture. The Abbot however had not moved, nor taken an attacking posture, but Musashi could "feel" an attack coming from the end of the rake.

On speaking to the Monk Musashi explained the melevolance he had felt. The Monk then replies that it was Musashi who had radiated such force and that he had only reacted defensively. Now the story goes on to the monk explaining that Musashi is too strong...etc. But the question I pose here is whether the ability that these kenshi had to sense attacks was real?


I have heard stories of kendokas (usually Godan) who can actually do this. Whereby they counter your attack even as you think about it.


Three questions then:

1) Does this sixth sense exist?

2) Is this ability inherent?

3)Or, does this ability come with age, maturity, training?


Peace,
Meng

[Hyaku]

Damn

Meng your giving all my secrets away.

Hyaku

[Confound]

I always thought mystical powers were the province of anime and romanticized views of samurai. I don't think it's some kind of psychic sense, if anything it's the accumulated years of shiai experience, and understanding how your opponent thinks, or how they may move next from what they have done already.

As for attacks from rakes, it certainly did act as a nice segue for an important conversation about power, fear and the need for mercy, now didn't it? Maybe musashi had a hidden fear of garden implements in the hands of monks. he was tied to a tree, in a garden, by a monk in his youth, was he not?

obviously, i'm kidding about the psycho-analysis, but the rest is serious.

c

[Ian Russell]

<whisper>
I see dead people...
</whisper>

P.S. I apologize in advance for the complete offtopic and harebrained post above. I just couldn't help it, I hate that movie!

[Confound]

Originally posted by Ian Russell
<whisper>
I see dead people...
</whisper>

P.S. I apologize in advance for the complete offtopic and harebrained post above. I just couldn't help it, I hate that movie!

Yep, i usually see dead people too when i go through the family photo album. too many great grandparents. Put down the photo album, Mr. Russell, just put down the photo album.

(i don't really watch movies, but i'm sure the one your'e referring to had nothing to do with a photo album.)

c

[Ian Russell]

Originally posted by Confound


Yep, i usually see dead people too when i go through the family photo album. too many great grandparents. Put down the photo album, Mr. Russell, just put down the photo album.

(i don't really watch movies, but i'm sure the one your'e referring to had nothing to do with a photo album.)

c
I wish I had more time to watch the movies I like, its one of the few escapist tendencies I have, I like to curl up on the couch and watch a good movie when the snow is piled up outside on a sunday afternoon... In the summer month (haha, Canada joke) I spend as much as I can outside. The Ottawa Blues fest is on this week http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif. Good music goin' on.

I'll shut up now, I'm totally dragging this serious thread off topic.

Ian "keeper of many photo albums filled with extinct relatives"

[KhawMengLee]

Hmnnn...interesting


Anyways, A friend of mine who is currently training in Singapore was telling me how during practice with a 7th Dan (Ican't remember his name but I know he is a Catholic Priest in Singapore) it wouldn't be the case of you attacking and getting a counter movement. What he said was, as soon as he thought of the attack, the counter came. Eg, he was thinking, I'll attack Kote and the next thing he knew the Sensei was on his left with shinai resting gently on hidari kote. He was telling me it was pretty unnerving how whenever he tried to attack his opponent, the reaction was already there beforehend.


This doesn't have to be the supernatural but at the same time what is this skill that high level Kendoists have? Experience?

Meng

[JSchmidt]

More likely the 7th dan forced him into cutting kote and countered because he knew it was coming.
(I've been on the recieving side many a time).

Jakob

[Ian Russell]

Originally posted by KhawMengLee
what is this skill that high level Kendoists have? ExperienceNot that I'm speaking from experience but if I had to venture a guess, I would agree with you. Some people just get so good at kendo that their skills seem somewhat supranormal to people like us with considerably less experience.

[alexpollijr]

yeah, I think it's experience/knowledge too. I don't believe in spiritual powers in kendo.

(Now let me hide down here and wait for the flames to come form the spiritual boys :cool:

[Confound]

Originally posted by alexpollijr
yeah, I think it's experience/knowledge too. I don't believe in spiritual powers in kendo.

(Now let me hide down here and wait for the flames to come form the spiritual boys :cool:

ah don't be afraid of the spiritual boys, just give them a big nasty look, and they'll suddenly see the 'great power of your spirit' and back down.

c

[Hyaku]

Originally posted by alexpollijr
yeah, I think it's experience/knowledge too. I don't believe in spiritual powers in kendo.

(Now let me hide down here and wait for the flames to come form the spiritual boys :cool:

Hello Alex

Well put it this way. Sometime or another a very high ranking teacher will perhaps ask you questions that relate to this thread. Hope you have your answers ready. It doesnt relate to just Kendo but budo in general.

But can't relate to this Musashi story. I does not fit in with the Hyoho that he taught.

I can understand threat a sudden move on the part of someone strong sending someone else into a defensive position. Such as the monk being disturbed by his presence.

Towards the latter part of his life Musashi's way was based on naturalness. Movement is based on a natural walk in to attack.

One of the methods of success in his hyoho is not to to let the opponent have any idea whatsoever of ones intention.

Also there are no defensive postures. There are adopted stances taken when an attack is imminent. Did he have a weapon in his hands. The jujitsu/unarming techniques have no actual kamae.

This story leads one to believe that he had completely disregarded his principles and made a mess of it.

Hyaku

[Hyaku]

Originally posted by alexpollijr
yeah, I think it's experience/knowledge too. I don't believe in spiritual powers in kendo.

(Now let me hide down here and wait for the flames to come form the spiritual boys :cool:

Hello Alex

Well put it this way. Sometime or another a very high ranking teacher will perhaps ask you questions that relate to this thread. Hope you have your answers ready. It doesnt relate to just Kendo but budo in general.

But can't relate to this Musashi story. I does not fit in with the Hyoho that he taught.

I can understand threat a sudden move on the part of someone strong sending someone else into a defensive position. Such as the monk being disturbed by his presence.

Towards the latter part of his life Musashi's way was based on naturalness. Movement is based on a natural walk in to attack.

One of the methods of success in his hyoho is not to to let the opponent have any idea whatsoever of ones intention.

Also there are no defensive postures. There are adopted stances taken when an attack is imminent.

This story leads one to believe that he had completely disregarded his principles and made a mess of it.

Hyaku

[KhawMengLee]

This story leads one to believe that he had completely disregarded his principles and made a mess of it.

I can't fully remember the story but maybe he didn't go into a defensive stance. Don't have the book with me at this moment. The part I do remember is how Musashi felt, as described, "something murderous about the way the abbot held the hoe/rake". He was describing how he felt that an attack could come, though the abbot did not at face value show any sign of hostility.

Later on the Abbot describes how he himself felt Musashi's aura and felt an attack so he naturally responded in readiness to defend. He goes on to say how Musashi is too strong and needs to be more calm or balanced.

Of course this story is early in the book and he goes on to learn to balance his "aura" so to speak.

******************

Meng

[Confound]

Originally posted by KhawMengLee


Of course this story is early in the book and he goes on to learn to balance his "aura" so to speak.

Meng

Meng, I don't think you're wrong, Meng. I have to admit to only having seen the movies, but if i remember correctly, that talk with the abbot was the turning point for Musashi, when he realized that strength was not enough.

c

[inner_cent]

Meng,

The old 7th dan sensei is Kato. he is old, but he is still high in spirit. Before he was really sick 2 years ago, he was even more stronger than now. Like something you said.... somehow he read out mind before we do anything.... you won't a 7th dan if you don't have substance, right ?
To make something more unnerving, try the 2nd 7th dan in singapore... and this time, he is only 42/43 years old.... Try keiko with him, you will know what is Hell..... (I won't be surprise if u sliding on floor, pinned to the wall... and crying for mummy)..... but its all part of thing they try to make oyu aware of.

[KhawMengLee]

(I won't be surprise if u sliding on floor, pinned to the wall... and crying for mummy).....

:eek: Yikes!!

cool:D

Meng

[Jerry Wellbrock]

I bet at one time or another all of you have been walking down the street and felt like someone was behind you and even though you did not hear a thing you turn around and there they are.....how uncomfortable are most people in an elevator....they watch the numbers for the floors light up so they don't have to look at the other people in the elevator.....new age may call it aura....some scientist bioelectrical energy.....many martial artist call it Ki or Chi or Qi......or to even sound ridiculous the "force".....much has been written about projecting your ki but not so much about precieving the ki of others.....it is no special gift to precieve this just that most of us have not worked at it....have you not been in a room with certain Sensei's and even though you have never met them before you know their is something special about them....strong ki....just begin by learning to project from your hara and keep training....it will happen:confused:

[James]

I don't think this is anything supernatural.
These things have been kicking off in vegetable patches since the garden of eden, some stranger walks by, starts giving sidelong glances to your rake, next thing you know he's calling her a hoe!
Of course you're gonna react!

[KATSUJIN]

meng...i know which sensei u talking abt...he is one of my two senseis who r 7dan.....we have two 7 dan, 2 6 dan, 3 5 dan, 4 4 dan and 2 3dan senseis here...the one u talked abt is the cheif sensei here....he is almost 70...i think......should be around there....and wat ur friend said is true.....i got whacked like that many times.......i think abt some attack and .....i get whacked before finishing the thought......i think this is wat they call the heart in kendo....full awareness or perhaps the real form of zanshin......

[KATSUJIN]

inner_cent..who r u? how u know abt the other 7th dan sensei here???? wats ur name please.....

[KhawMengLee]

Cool:D

Hey, which part of Singapore do you practice at? I may be coming down for christmas and I was wondering if I could get a bit of practice in?

Does your dojo take in lowly wandering kyu grade ronins?heehee

[KATSUJIN]

and meng....believe inner_cent when he syas u maybe be sliding on the floor or pinned to a wall....i went through all this and will facing it again soon....as soon as my foot heals back......this is his way of training us...somewat similar to the old schools' training method......he will push us and throw us around untill he feels it is enough...by then...i was almost dead from being tired........he will just sap u dry of strength.......

[KATSUJIN]

well....if u wanna train there...i think u should talk to the vice-president of singapore kendo club....he is also my sensei....Mr Peter Ong.....i think u can get his contact number on the Singapore kendo club webpage......

[KATSUJIN]

or the president mr Chan Cheow Lin should be better.....ask either of them....

[KhawMengLee]

Oh, I'm taking innercent's word seriously, its just I like to work with the motto, if it don't kill you it only makes you stronger.

[KhawMengLee]

Thanks for the details dude.

Hey, you going for the World Kendo Championship next year?

[KATSUJIN]

well...i donno.......personallyy......i think i not good enough....after all...i only trained for abt 3 & 1/2 years...and i still have doubts abt myself in keiko.........so whether i go or not depend on my senseis........but if i can go...i think it is good because i might be able see many variations of styles and beautiful forms of kendo......

[KhawMengLee]

Yar, that's why I like to do the travelling ronin thingy...I like to learn from different dojos...but of course my loyalty is still to Murdoch Kendo Club(my dojo) :D

Might see ya in a few weeks time ;) just look for the kendoka with the gold coloured DOU with no zekken.

[KATSUJIN]

and u will know me when u see me.......pretty obvious actually.....

[inner_cent]

hey....who is inner_cent and fighter???? can u guys please tell me ur names pleaseeeeee..........


__________________


I am the of Lost Soul, who ahs return to his Ozzie Home Land..... (I'm pretty sure there is alot of Aussie in SKC..... which only have 3 so far !!!)
Give you hint, I was taught by Chan sensei when I was beginner .... now I'm training in Kangaroo Land....

[KATSUJIN]

i not sure.....just tell please

[Ares2907]

much as I love charades, can you guys take it to private messaging please?