Left hand only Kote

[doraemon]

I might be wrong but I see there is "traditional kote" (like a smaller men cut) and then the one which sees the right hand stay put and the left rotated forward and back in an arc around the right hand so the left hand is almost above the right hand at the end of the cut. This second version can be performed much quicker but is it still good straight (valid scoring) kendo?

[mark]

I might be wrong but I see there is "traditional kote" (like a smaller men cut) and then the one which sees the right hand stay put and the left rotated forward and back in an arc around the right hand so the left hand is almost above the right hand at the end of the cut. This second version can be performed much quicker but is it still good straight (valid scoring) kendo?
I am not quite sure what you are talking about. However, I have seen sensei's with extremely strong forearms and very flexible wrists who can strike a very strong wrist only kote (normally debana kote) where the right hand does not seem to move. Is this the type of thing you are talking about or is it something else?

[doraemon]

If the attachment has worked youll see what I mean. Although it looks very odd the diagram shows the top more wristy version almost no shoulder movment, the left hand is static, and the bottom diagram is exagerated shoulder movment type kote.

But yes this wristy kote is what I mean, we have recently begun learning this and its great, so great in fact I am doing the old type of kote less and less. I guess im just wondering if this kind of kote is ok all the time or just in situations like debanna (sp?)?

[mark]

If the attachment has worked youll see what I mean. Although it looks very odd the diagram shows the top more wristy version almost no shoulder movment, the left hand is static, and the bottom diagram is exagerated shoulder movment type kote.

But yes this wristy kote is what I mean, we have recently begun learning this and its great, so great in fact I am doing the old type of kote less and less. I guess im just wondering if this kind of kote is ok all the time or just in situations like debanna (sp?)?

That is what I thought you mean't. I've seen higher ranks seem to do something similar for men and doh also. I have yet to figure out how it might work for side cuts: does the left fist leave center or does the right move?
It also reminded me of a sensei a few years back in Beijin who seemed to suggest that the right hand could create a ring with the first few fingers if your right wrist was not flexible enough to give you the elevation you needed for a strong strike.

[enkorat]

If the attachment has worked youll see what I mean. Although it looks very odd the diagram shows the top more wristy version almost no shoulder movment, the left hand is static, and the bottom diagram is exagerated shoulder movment type kote.

But yes this wristy kote is what I mean, we have recently begun learning this and its great, so great in fact I am doing the old type of kote less and less. I guess im just wondering if this kind of kote is ok all the time or just in situations like debanna (sp?)?


I looked it up in my dictionary just to be sure, but I think what you are describing is either "debana-kote" or also "degote". I'm not quite sure what you mean by whether or not its "okay". If you're starting to learn it, it probably means that your instructor thinks you're ready to start learning it. If your wondering why you're learning it, and that it contradicts what you were taught initially as a more novice beginner, well welcome to your first taste of "oh by the way, kendo is a little more sophisticated than you thought yesterday." It happens a lot.

If I might be so bold, can I ask what grade you are? Degote tends to be fairly favored by us shodans because its one of the first wazas that we lose by/or win by, and its relatively easy to figure out at the shodan level. Then comes the arms race of figuring out how to counter a degote, then comes the counter to the counter to the degote...etc... so if you go up against someone who knows how to counter a degote, and you do it all the time, then you're kinda screwed. I think its the fun part of kendo tho...

Dunno if I helped you...

[Neil Gendzwill]

Debana kote means to hit the kote just at the start of the opponent's own attacking action. It's got nothing to do with how the kote is physically struck, although to make it work usually the motion must be quick.

[enkorat]

Would it be more accurate to describe it as "sashi-kote" then?

[Neil Gendzwill]

I dunno, I suppose. We just say "small kote", denoting a kote that is accomplished with mostly wrist action. You should be using mostly left hand, although not to the extent of pulling your left hand above your right.

[ben]

If the attachment has worked youll see what I mean. Although it looks very odd the diagram shows the top more wristy version almost no shoulder movment, the left hand is static, and the bottom diagram is exagerated shoulder movment type kote.

But yes this wristy kote is what I mean, we have recently begun learning this and its great, so great in fact I am doing the old type of kote less and less. I guess im just wondering if this kind of kote is ok all the time or just in situations like debanna (sp?)?

Nice diagram.

If you are indeed being taught kote like this, i.e. that you use your right hand as the fulcrum, then your teacher is doing both you and your kendo a disservice. All cuts require the use of both hands together to create "snap" using tenouchi. What you have described is bad technique. This is kote with no seme.

I suggest you hie you hence to the next Chiba sensei seminar later in the year in Melbourne (PM me and I will give you the dates). He will show you the true way to use both hands to execute lighting fast waza.

Remember, there are no shortcuts to good technique in kendo.

b

[doraemon]

Yes Ben this is how I feel upon learning it. I think though it is probably a one off technique that we are practicing for a while, I will ask Sensei about it at next class. I am by no means an expert and may have goten the wrong idea about the waza entirley.

Unfortunatley Melbourne is a bit of a hike for me now ;-(.

Maybey some kind soul will make a video?

[enkorat]

I'm pretty sure that any kind of sashi-kote/debana-kote/degote is entirely based on a very strong tennuchi, but on first pass "looks" like a wrist action. Its hard to describe, but its sort of like when I first tried learning harai-waza, or also the uchidachi blocking in kata #3. I first thought it was a wrist movement because that is what I saw, but it really isn't a wrist movement at all.

Best bet is to see a video, since I've started thinking that trying to describe kendo waza on a internet forum is as easy and as useful as trying to describe a Monet painting as "a bunch of different colored brush strokes."

[Kenshi]

If you are indeed being taught kote like this, i.e. that you use your right hand as the fulcrum, then your teacher is doing both you and your kendo a disservice. All cuts require the use of both hands together to create "snap" using tenouchi. What you have described is bad technique.

Sorry Ben, but this is one thing ive learned from having access to numerous (hundreds? countless?) sensei all the time: there is no One-Way to do anything.... there just isnt. This goes for things like bowing, folding your hakama, men uchi, katate tsuki, order of going into the shower, who gets the 1st beer, etc etc.

I have been taught conflicting ways to do many things many many times. The key is to select a sensei (or senseis) whose kendo you want to do and who you can have a good relationship with. At the same time you have to just nod and say "I understand" to other sensei whose kendo you dont want to do. You cant please every 8dan.


This is kote with no seme.

?!?!? How can you tell that?

This is a more reasonable approach:


I've started thinking that trying to describe kendo waza on a internet forum is as easy and as useful as trying to describe a Monet painting as "a bunch of different colored brush strokes."

Which is why I would never dream to tell anyone how to "properly" cut or execute XY or Z technique.

[emitbrownne]

I've started thinking that trying to describe kendo waza on a internet forum is as easy and as useful as trying to describe a Monet painting as "a bunch of different colored brush strokes.".
Which is why I would never dream to tell anyone how to "properly" cut or execute XY or Z technique.


I still think its still a good thing to do as it gets you thinking more about your kendo. Trying to describe to someone what you mean, requires a deeper understanding of what you mean...

I think that what I mean..:nervous:

Paulo

[ben]

...?!?!? How can you tell that?...

Easy. If he is using the right hand as the fulcrum then there is no forward movement of the kensen at the beginning of the attack. The kensen is just lifted up, rather than driving forward. Hence, no threat, no seme. Of course I mean physical seme. I doubt anyone capable of significant spiritual seme would be executing a kote as described here. (Edit: maybe seme is not a good word, maybe irimi [entering] is better, although that's not thought of as a kendo term).

Normally I too would not attempt coaching on the interweb, but this sounded like a particularly ugly and potentially counter-productive technique with a fairly straightforward answer. And the chap bothered to draw a picture!

I take your point about different strokes for different (8dan) folks. I don't think that's a reason not to speak up when you see something you disagree with. You can't do that in the dojo, but you can here.

[Koki]

Seme doesn't require the kensen to go forward... It could go anywhere...

As for the kote, do whatever works for you. I've seen both. I could do both.

[ben]

Seme doesn't require the kensen to go forward... It could go anywhere...

As for the kote, do whatever works for you. I've seen both. I could do both.

I have to disagree with you there. If your kensen is not travelling towards your opponent, it's not threatening anyone or anything. Not only that, but you just surrendered the centre... PON!

Sure the shinai could go anywhere. But if it goes anywhere but towards your opponent it becomes a magic wand, and you become Tinkerbell.

Kendo is not a "do whatever works for you" proposition. Not unless you're >7 dan. And even those guys would tell you that they haven't arrived yet.

b

[bullet08]

actually, this is what i posted about sometime ago. this is what i call 'whipping' the shinai. i think miyazaki and others use this in shiai a lot. as to kensen moving, if you move your arms to move the kensen, sure there is no movement, but if you move with your hara, it will still get the kensen moving forward. it might not cut through your skull, but it will sure skin the top of your head.. :)

pete

[shred_lord]

Kendo is not a "do whatever works for you" proposition.
Now that would be an interesting discussion.

[Kenshi]

guys... seme has little to do with physical prompts..... thats why this forum is useless in describing things.

I could of course be mistaken.

If your answer is "easy" then id like to learn from you.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Easy. If he is using the right hand as the fulcrum then there is no forward movement of the kensen at the beginning of the attack.Not true. The right hand moves toward the target, left hand provides the snap. This is the way we teach small technique to beginners. Later on it can get more integrated.

[Koki]

I have to disagree with you there. If your kensen is not travelling towards your opponent, it's not threatening anyone or anything. Not only that, but you just surrendered the centre... PON!

Sure the shinai could go anywhere. But if it goes anywhere but towards your opponent it becomes a magic wand, and you become Tinkerbell.

Kendo is not a "do whatever works for you" proposition. Not unless you're >7 dan. And even those guys would tell you that they haven't arrived yet.

b

You mean the kensen always stay in the center?

That is just one type of seme; and then, there is also keeping the center without actually having the shinai in the center (kinda like kokoro maai and physical maai).

And speaking of surrender the center, sure...go ahead... we'll see if your men is faster than my degote.

I'm practicing jodan now, and different sensei told me different ways of how to do jodan. Who should i listen to? Well, I tried them all and see what works for me. Even my sensei has told me that it's time for me to learn from other sensei and pick their brain. He said my basic is strong enough, so he's not afraid I would get confused. I guess it's the "Ha" part in "Shu-Ha-Ri."

[ben]

Not true. The right hand moves toward the target, left hand provides the snap. This is the way we teach small technique to beginners. Later on it can get more integrated.

The danger with teaching that way is that IME it leads to right-handedness in the cut. That becomes something that, if the student keeps going long enough, they will have serious difficulty un-learning later on.

I feel very strongly about this. Then again it might be the unremitting heatwave we've been having.

b

[ben]

You mean the kensen always stay in the center?

That is just one type of seme; and then, there is also keeping the center without actually having the shinai in the center (kinda like kokoro maai and physical maai).

And speaking of surrender the center, sure...go ahead... we'll see if your men is faster than my degote.

I'm practicing jodan now, and different sensei told me different ways of how to do jodan. Who should i listen to? Well, I tried them all and see what works for me. Even my sensei has told me that it's time for me to learn from other sensei and pick their brain. He said my basic is strong enough, so he's not afraid I would get confused. I guess it's the "Ha" part in "Shu-Ha-Ri."

I took the OP's post to indicate that s/he was a long way from being ready to apply concepts such as "kokoro maai". IOW kyu grade level. Maybe I was wrong.

Respectfully, I don't really care about your degote. I care about chushin. For me, how I win is more important than whether I win. That is the meaning of "dou".

It's a pity that you don't have an authority on jodan to help you. You do have a point about shuhari. If that is where you're at then you need to do research. But I don't think "do whatever works for you" is good advice for someone whose kendo you don't know on a kendo forum.

b

[ben]

guys... seme has little to do with physical prompts..... thats why this forum is useless in describing things.

I could of course be mistaken.

If your answer is "easy" then id like to learn from you.

I disagree, in the beginning, seme has a lot to do with the physical. Later on it becomes more psychological/spiritual.

And there are some easy ways to introduce seme through physical practice. It starts as simply as: tou-ma, step in to uchima causing your opponent to show an opening, cut men.

But I will admit that I'm surrounded mostly by beginners, not 5, 6, 7 and 8 dans.

b

[Koki]

I took the OP's post to indicate that s/he was a long way from being ready to apply concepts such as "kokoro maai". IOW kyu grade level. Maybe I was wrong.

Respectfully, I don't really care about your degote. I care about chushin. For me, how I win is more important than whether I win. That is the meaning of "dou".

It's a pity that you don't have an authority on jodan to help you. You do have a point about shuhari. If that is where you're at then you need to do research. But I don't think "do whatever works for you" is good advice for someone whose kendo you don't know on a kendo forum.

b

My point is not about degote or men. It is actually about seme. Sometimes you move in and point your kensen to the left-side do of the opponent, opening up your men to lure him in. As soon as he moves, you strike kote. When you go against an experienced kendoka, openings may not be openings... just have to be careful there.

As for my jodan, well, I do have sensei who teach me exclusively. But many times when I practice with other sensei, they usually pitch in and give me different advice, sometimes conflicting advices. It's very difficult to handle that situation.

Kendo forum stimulates discussion, that s the whole point. You read something on the forum, it makes you think and perhaps you could understand more about kendo. However, it doesn't mean everything on here apply to you. It is the same for kendo in general. There are many pathways to the top of the mountain. Different people have different understanding, what work for them, what not work for them. Otherwise you would see people play the same kind of kendo. I say we should keep an open mind.

[ReKru]

The danger with teaching that way is that IME it leads to right-handedness in the cut. That becomes something that, if the student keeps going long enough, they will have serious difficulty un-learning later on.

I feel very strongly about this. Then again it might be the unremitting heatwave we've been having.

b

To avoid right-handedness, we have been taught small waza the 'use the right hand as fulcrum' way as well.

It's an intermediate step for 'advanced' beginners to move from all big waza (like swinging the shinai back to your butt) to small, fast but still strong waza.

If you teach it correctly, nothing has to be 'unlearned' later (and I totally agree with you that 'unlearning' unproper technique that you picked up is very very hard), you only need to get the right hand involved when you got the left hand movement 'stable'.

Doing the whipping kote thing, the motion of the left hand should become pretty 'solid' over time, and it should be the 'leading' hand (because you practiced with almost only left hand action, when you use the right as sole fulcrum).
Then you add moving in with the hips from an also 'solid' kamae and using your right hand to 'snap' while moving it forward as well.

I think ideally to create proper (with huge emphasis on proper) and strong small waza, you need both hands, they just have different roles (that's my limited understanding anyways - left hand is providing the 'power' and right hand 'guiding' the cut and giving it it's final 'touch' trough tenouchi).
Teaching those different roles at the same time can be quite overwhelming and frustrating (especially for adult mudansha ... we are a bit learn resistant, if I compare it to the younger ones), so I wouldn't say his teacher is doing the original poster a disservice by taking that approach, if he doesn't stop there.

[Kenshi]

I disagree, in the beginning, seme has a lot to do with the physical. Later on it becomes more psychological/spiritual.

And there are some easy ways to introduce seme through physical practice. It starts as simply as: tou-ma, step in to uchima causing your opponent to show an opening, cut men.

But I will admit that I'm surrounded mostly by beginners, not 5, 6, 7 and 8 dans.

b

I agree that that kinds of seme can be expressed physically. The example you provide is for beginners and children. Personally I would avoid using the word "seme" when describing it... I see it more about capturing maai and getting into the routine of moving your body while you cut. Its plain to me that many people learn that "seme" is that physical step in... and this is bad.

You mentioned "irimi" earlier... and although we dont use it in kendo per-se, thats exactly what we are meant to be learning whilst using kodachi (1+2 anyway). Its a shame that we dont talk more about "irimi" in kendo and on kendo-world.

[bullet08]

I agree that that kinds of seme can be expressed physically. The example you provide is for beginners and children. Personally I would avoid using the word "seme" when describing it... I see it more about capturing maai and getting into the routine of moving your body while you cut. Its plain to me that many people learn that "seme" is that physical step in... and this is bad.

You mentioned "irimi" earlier... and although we dont use it in kendo per-se, thats exactly what we are meant to be learning whilst using kodachi (1+2 anyway). Its a shame that we dont talk more about "irimi" in kendo and on kendo-world.

irimi as in 'entering'? as in aikido? but if you want to use that concept, you also need 'atemi'. how would that work with kendo? so far with my limited experience, we are told to ignore attack from aite, and concentrate on our waza. i guess tsuki works sort of like atemi in aikido.. i would think entering with size 39 shinai and trying to do in-fight in kendo would be rather hard concept for me to understand.

pete

[Kenshi]

Yup, same term, same meaning. The concept is found in koryu as well. You dont think Ueshiba made the whole thing up himself do you?

Irimi in Japanese is 入身 (入り身) and if you look at the kanji it basically means "getting your body (身) in (入)" .... ie "getting in close enough to - in kendo terms - strike with the shinai" ... or "moving in enough so that you can lure your opponent to attack you, and then you strike" ... or "Capturing your maai" etc etc I guess it can be explained many ways.

We dont talk about it explicitly in kendo until we do kodachi. Even then, the vast majority of teachers do not talk about irimi.

Atemi and irimi are not bound together (I guess). You might be interested to know that I sometimes punch my kohai in the mengane!!! Theres your irimi (im in tsubazeriau in a flash) and your atemi (my kote in his face).

[JSchmidt]

You mentioned "irimi" earlier... and although we dont use it in kendo per-se, thats exactly what we are meant to be learning whilst using kodachi (1+2 anyway). Its a shame that we dont talk more about "irimi" in kendo and on kendo-world.

It pops up every now and then..mainly when talking about kodachi kata 1&2.

[bullet08]

Atemi and irimi are not bound together (I guess). You might be interested to know that I sometimes punch my kohai in the mengane!!! Theres your irimi (im in tsubazeriau in a flash) and your atemi (my kote in his face).

there's an idea.. i might punch one of them in the face tonight :)

pete

[shred_lord]

so far with my limited experience, we are told to ignore attack from aite, and concentrate on our waza.Not strictly true. You need to have Ken-Tai-Ichi which is attack and defence as one. This means while you and building you attack you must be aware that you opponent may initiated and not suprised by it (thus being able to react accordingly).

If I may quote someone who knows what they're about:




KEN-TAI (offence and defence)

The words Ken and Tai mean literally to attack and wait, but they are more readily understandable as attack and defence.
In Kendo the thoroughgoing and direct attack is the most highly valued, of old we have been taught 'not to think of receiving, but of striking'. However this does not mean that it is right merely to strike or attack recklessly. In shogi this is known as over-advancing the pieces, and in kendo as over-striking, or over-attacking and is something to be avoided. The old teaching informs us that, 'In pursuit and retreat one must know the limits'. Over attacking tends only to invite disaster.
In the book on strategy (The Art of War) by Sun Tzu it is written;
The master of encirclement always leaves a route for the enemy to escape; he never rushes in upon an entrapped enemy. [1] (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/#_ftn1)
So, what is the correct thing to do? The answer is to attack when one should attack and wait when one should wait. Moreover there is the teaching Ken-Chu-Tai (defence within attack and attack within defence). While attacking one also watches and waits, and while waiting and watching one is on the verge of attacking. When this is achieved it is known as Ken-Tai-Ichi (attack and defence as one).
Ken-tai is explained in the following way in the Shinkage-ryu Heiho Kadensho[2] (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/#_ftn2)
Ken means to attack single mindedly, to strike fiercely in order to be the first to strike a blow. Whether possessed by the opponent or by oneself, the feeling of Ken remains the same.
Tai means resisting making the initial technique while awaiting the opponent’s first move. It must be understood that tai is a position of the utmost watchfulness. Ken and tai mean to attack and wait.
Concerning the principles of ken-tai pertaining to the body and sword, advance upon the opponent with an attacking posture and hold the sword in a position of waiting, making efforts to entice the opponent to make an attack and counter it. In this way ones posture is in an attitude of ken and the sword in one of tai. The ken posture is used to induce the opponent to initiate the attack.
Ken-tai pertaining to the mind and body. The mind should retain an attitude of tai and the body an attitude of ken; this is because if the mind retains an attitude of ken and it races and this is not good; thus have the mind wait in tai, and with the body in ken induce the opponent to make the first move and defeat him. Again there is the principle whereby the mind takes an attitude of ken and the body in one of tai; the reason for this is that with the mind in ken it is put upon its guard and with the sword in tai the opponent is induced into making the first attack. One should think of the body as being the hand that holds the sword. Thus the mind takes an attitude of ken and the body one of tai. Ultimately both methods are the same, the aim is to induce the opponent to make the first move and defeat him.
Again, a poem from the Hozo-in-ryu tradition of so-Jitsu[3] (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/#_ftn3) (spearmanship) reads;
With hands in tai and legs in ken advance unflaggingly, like waterfowl
Here we are taught the way of ken and tai as one. Also in the Itto-ryu Densho concerning Ken-chu-tai and Tai-chu-ken we find;
In nature, a one sidedness of either Yang or Yin does not exist. At the extreme of Yang, there emerges Yin. In the different stances, there are those of Yin and Yang, attacking is one of Yang and stopping is one of Yin. The stances of Onken, Jodan and Inhonken[4] (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/#_ftn4) all are of Yang. When I am trying to strike the opponent I watch the colour of his sword and react accordingly, not merely trying to initiate the first blow is to take a position called tai. Induce the opponent to make the first move and react accordingly. When you advance in trying to make the initial attack in a one sided attitude of Yang and without the aid on Yin, you will find great difficulty in opposing a strong opponent. Therefore try to combine the attitudes of Yang and Yin during combat.
In tai-chi-ken, to wait does not mean to stand still in waiting, if you stand still in this way you will become stiff and fast and lack power and you will be defeated when you stop.
Again, the stances known as seigan, shinken and gedan are all of Yin. These are the stances of receiving and stopping the opponent’s technique. Depending on the situation it is difficult to leap in with lightning speed from these stances as they are by nature waiting attitudes, but when you take this to mean merely to wait you will be caught slow and defeated. Therefore show an attitude of tai, but within take an attitude of ken. With Yang within when advancing if there appears a weakness in the opponent attack immediately and defeat him. This is what is known as the place where Yang and Yin aid each other for victory. To describe the way of combat; if the opponent attacks we wait and if he waits we attack, this is the main principle of tactics. Even when we attack, depending on the opponents moves, we may suddenly take to defence, and when defending the opposite may be so. These are called the tactics of surprise and expediency; they are the application of swordsmanship.

There should be an extreme of neither Ken nor Tai.

[1] (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/#_ftnref1) The reason is that if an enemy feels himself to be completely cut off from escape and is attacked, he may resolve to die fighting, thus causing great damage to the attacking army.

[2] (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/#_ftnref2) The teachings of the Shinkage-ryu principles of combat were written by Yagyu Meneyoshi (1527-1606), the founder of the tradition. It is made up of three sections: Shin-ri-kyo, Satsunin-to and Katsujim-to. The above quotation is taken from the Satsunin-to section.

[3] (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/#_ftnref3) The Hozo-ryu was founded by Hozo-in kakuzenbu Ho-in Inei, a Buddhist monk of Nara. He studied the sword under Kamizumi Nobutsuna and spear under Narita Moritada (1521-1607)

[4] (http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/#_ftnref4) All posture to be found in Itto-ryo tradition


I am rubbish at this... :)

[Kenshi]

Holy Batman, were going deep!

This KEN-TAI thing is from Yagyu Shinkage-ryu hyoho and was espoused in the Heiho-Kadensho (the English version of course doesnt use Japanese terms).

Id actually like to expand on this more here but ive a girl coming over now and shes more important than a bunch of kendo-geeks... :chinese:

[bullet08]

If I may quote someone who knows what they're about...

very interesting.. i can see what he is talking about, but i doubt my body can follow my mind so quickly. i have only started to see the opening, and go 'damn it, i missed the chance..".

pete

[ReKru]

a bunch of kendo-geeks... :chinese:

You used to be one of us.

Just look at you now :bored: .. so unkendo and ungeek? :p

[DCPan]

Easy. If he is using the right hand as the fulcrum then there is no forward movement of the kensen at the beginning of the attack. The kensen is just lifted up, rather than driving forward.

Just to play Devil's Advocate.... :D You are assuming the kensen moved before any foot movement has taken place, aren't you?

If the person was to maintain chudan as he/she enters then do the right-hand fulcrum kote as described above, would you still say there is no seme?

[ben]

Just to play Devil's Advocate.... :D You are assuming the kensen moved before any foot movement has taken place, aren't you?

If the person was to maintain chudan as he/she enters then do the right-hand fulcrum kote as described above, would you still say there is no seme?

If the person knows enough to enter with their hips/hara/kamae before starting their backswing then they don't need my advice.

I'm really talking about kyu grades who see the superficial level of technique in any demonstration, not the biomechanical underpinnings. They're the ones I'm concerned would take this right-hand-fulcrum-technique and turn it into right-hand-powered-technique in a relatively short space of time.

b

[ahmed61086]

Whats the differnence between debana-kote and degote, or are they the same thing?

I cant figure it out by the way you guys are writing.



THanks.

[DCPan]

Whats the differnence between debana-kote and degote, or are they the same thing?

I cant figure it out by the way you guys are writing.

THanks.

de-gote = de-kote = debana-kote = degashira-kote = okori-kote

YMMV

[ahmed61086]

de-gote = de-kote = debana-kote = degashira-kote = okori-kote

YMMV

Thanks for the info.


Peace.

[ben]

OK I've been trying this way of doing sashi-waza, both men and kote and it has a lot going for it.

But...

...two things I have found with it that require constant vigilance:

1) it increases the tendency of the right shoulder to lead into the cut, which can result in quite pronouced upper body rotation, and

2) it leads to that kind of "skipping" men where instead of using the back foot to drive the whole body forward (fumikiri), the back foot kicks out behind in a kind of grand jete (http://www.thecollectionshop.com/xq/ASP/offset.66/qx/images/products/503Psmall.jpg). The body essentially stays still, but a plausible fumikomi is produced.

b

[shred_lord]

the back foot kicks out behind in a kind of grand jete (http://www.thecollectionshop.com/xq/ASP/offset.66/qx/images/products/503Psmall.jpg).I am so worried that you can just deal the term out in passing!!! :eek::silly:

My problem is because the cut can (not saying should) be made with only upward arm movement I tend to end up with my arms over my head... all very shiai, but not what I want.