Blocking

[Old Warrior]

I started a thread on "Ducking" and now I toss out the issue of "Blocking" to the forum. By "Blocking" I am particularly referring to dropping the elbows to prevent a good do/hori cut. Similar, to my observations on "Ducking", I am frequently faced with an opponent who drops his elbow to frustrate my attack. My first concern is that I wind up cracking some elbows and I feel bad about that. But, I also wonder if it is proper kendo to theoretically block sword cuts with bare flesh. If I were making up the rules I would make "Blocking" a foul (as it is in European foil fencing).

Comments from the enlightened will be appreciated.

[xvikingx]

hhmmm... I do not have enough experience to really comment on this subject.
But I will say, do not feel bad about hitting them though. It is their choice to take the hit in the elbow. To me this does not seem like good kendo but I would not put it at the same level as bobble heads.
I am interested to see what other people have to say about this.

[JSchmidt]

Blocking is somewhat bad form, but it also tells you that you didnt have the right opportunity...oh and dont worry about their elbows:)

Jakob

[justforkendo]

Blocking with your elbows is not a good thing to be doing. These people will find if they do it to a sensei, that the sensei will have a few words to them. Blocking is fine if it is done with the shinnai whilst useing waza(do-uchiotoshi-men) . Striking the shinnai downwards, making your opponents attack invalid. Then striking him. If this waza is too advanced they should let their do be hit and not block with the elbows. This doe's two things it allows the person who's do is being hit to learn the timing for do. And for the person hitting do it allows him to finish his cut, lets him practice his zanshin and footwork and gives him confidence. In this way both people will benefit. However in shiai this aproach might not be thw best.

[Atama]

The majority of us have been guilty at some point of blocking an attack (be it for whatever reason) in my opinion and from what I've been told is that you should not block as it just shows u are scared of being cut and if you do block it should be to pull of oji waza. As for the elbows thing if they drop em to protect a do cut hit them as its there own stupid fault although on saying that you must ensure to open your oponent for the do cut, I have had some lovely swollen elbows recently from people who take do when I an still in chudan (its not fun).
Fencing people who constantly block can be a frustrating but they can't block ever cut right?

[mingshi]

Erhm, if you are fast enough, no one can really block your shinai with their elbows... So, the best solution is, lure them to believe that you are going for Men, and commit to cut Do asap. If they are blockers, their shinai will be up and so as their elbow, and there will be a perfect opening just for you to hit.

A failure of their elbow-block will result in your shinai being caught under their arms. Quite amusing to see ;)

[Old Warrior]

"A failure of their elbow-block will result in your shinai being caught under their arms."

Then I tap them on the men with my shoto to remind them my cut was there. Although I do believe that if my do cut was perfect there would be no block or trap. So I always take these incidents as a reminder that I have a lot to improve.

[D'Artagnan]

"My first concern is that I wind up cracking some elbows and I feel bad about that."

I am, perhaps, not really the kind of person this question is aimed at, as i am still only a beginner in kendo. However, before taking up kendo i practiced Muay Thai for several years. I muay thai, when somebody attacks your ribs/abdomen the first instict you train is to drop your elbows. This became a problem when i started Kendo, as eveytime an opponent cut Do, sure enough i dropped the elbows and copped a lovely bruise. However, to this day i ensist that this was completely my fault. so, speaking from someone who is a reciever of this i would suggest not to feel bad. In fact the way i learned to break this habit was by fencing a particular person in my dojo who does not 'cut' do, but 'baseball bats' it. I learnt really quite quickly not to drop my elbows. so if anything i'd say cut harder, they'll soon stop.

hope this helps

A

[Old Warrior]

"...to this day i ensist that this was completely my fault. so, speaking from someone who is a reciever of this i would suggest not to feel bad."

I have developed a certain wisdom over the years of my life. I have learned that just because one is right, doesn't mean that you aren't an assh_le. I want to encourage people to practice with me. Somehow, not everyone will see it as their fault when they drop their elbows and get whacked. They will only remember the pain of my sharp hori.

Just today, I had a senior student (a woman 3 grades above me) ask me to be careful not to hit her too hard. Now, one could say she was a bit too squimish to have acheived her rank. I just saw someone who really didn't want to practice with me. While the fear was hers and it was unjustified, I have accomplished nothing by having her so intimidated that she is afraid of me and would prefer to train with someone else.

[JSchmidt]

"...

Just today, I had a senior student (a woman 3 grades above me) ask me to be careful not to hit her too hard. Now, one could say she was a bit too squimish to have acheived her rank. I just saw someone who really didn't want to practice with me. While the fear was hers and it was unjustified, I have accomplished nothing by having her so intimidated that she is afraid of me and would prefer to train with someone else.

I would say that based on this and your previous posts that you are hitting way too hard...

Jakob

[slidercrank]

Just today, I had a senior student (a woman 3 grades above me) ask me to be careful not to hit her too hard.

Hi OW:

If I remember correctly, you're fairly tall right? Is the woman significantly shorter than you? Due to the physics of bamboo, if you're much taller than the receiver, your shinai tip can "wrap around" the top of her head and impact area of the men where the cushion is thin.

This is something to keep in mind when you spar against shorter people, male or female.

2 other things could contribute to your "hard hits:"

Grip. When your shinai is swinging, your grip should be relaxed. Tighten your grip at the moment of impact and then relax a bit immediately.

Forward momentum. At the moment of strike, you should have a forward momentum going in your body. If not, then the entire force of the shinai is driven directly down in the direction of the receiver's backbone. This will make the receiver see stars. At the moment of the cut, the shinai tip should be cutting downward (because of the swing) AS WELL AS slicing forward (because your body is being pushed forward by the leg). This forward motion will lessen the perceived impact felt by the receiver.

Ever notice when your master is demonstrating a cut on a student's head or a shinai, his shinai has a natural bounce of a coule inches and the shinai tip seems to "skip foward" a bit after the cut? It's because of the grip and forward momentum.

Lastly, as the woman is 3 grades above you, that will make her, what, 3rd kyu? Technically, she's your senior. But she's still a very new beginner. I would take her comment more as her personal opinion on pain, than as her understanding of your kendo.

[Nishi]

OW, you may find this interesting... when started kendo i catogorized things to help me thru...(1)I first encountered slightly higher (or the same) ranked students, and when they were cut, their alternative to facing what had just happened would be to complain about what i had just done, this was their way of covering the lose of composure they were feeling.(2) These where the people in the upper kyus/lower dans who knew they where about to be cut/beat and would stop in mid-ji-geiko to give you a kendo lesson, thus breaking the rythm of the inevitable.(3) This group are easier to tolerate, they choose not to associate with you based on your ability, they'd sooner get changed and go home after keiko,than express any thanx for the oppurtunity to train together.(4) My favorite group, the people that let the kendo speak for themselves!!! (5) The people that set out to spoil your kendo and club you when the feel you have clubbed them (spoils the entire keiko)!!

My point is, it may not be you!

Correct yourself first though.

[Old Warrior]

"I would say that based on this and your previous posts that you are hitting way too hard."

I am sure you are correct in your assessment. But now, doing nito, my strike is substantially less hard because it is done with one hand and a lighter shinai (37). Nevertheless, the subject of tenouche[sp?] has a whole new meaning when you are using only one hand. It is much harder to stop the shinai with one hand and many of the basic exercises (repetative 2 and 1 step cuts) are a challenge to keep up the rhythm with 1 hand. Also, suburi with 1 hand is really straining. If I could do 400 before, with one hand it is hard to do 100 good cuts.

The comment in this thread that the cut should be focused to theoretically cleave to the eye level, was very helpful. It gave me a sense of how hard is necessary to a proper cut. It is definitely, untrue, that I hit too hard in keiko. When competing, however, I plead guilty. The adrenaline rush when I imagine someone is trying to kill me, does get me pumped and I do need better control. Nito, has put me back a dozen steps in this department and I will just have to work harder.

I am 6' feet tall and most of my opponents are shorter. The gal I was referencing above is almost a foot shorter. She is a very nice person and I regret that she worries about practicing with me.

[sminki]

This woman, is she the ikkyu or nikyu person who has blue uniform? Once I visited master Seong in NJ and had an opportunity to do keiko with her. She wasn't great, so I was a bit careful to not be too hard on her. And one time, I was in tsubazeriai position with her and waiting for her to back off. She took her time trying to figure out hiki-men but couldn't quite figure her timing/oppotunity. I stood there letting her have the time to figure it out for about ten seconds or so. Master Seong, who was watching, eventually intervened and said "What are you doing? Slow-dancing with her?" We separated in a hurry. :grin:

[JSchmidt]

*shrug*..it all depends on how you hold the shinai..where are you gripping the shinai?..end of the tsuka?..middle?..near the tsuba? And how are your gripping it?..squarely or more diagonally?.
And you're holding it with the right hand, right?.

And trust me, I know about one-handed suburi :)...I normally practice from jodan and have done my share!.

Jakob

[kendomushi]

Blocking in modern kendo is not really a good thing. But remember kendo did evolve from the concept of battlefield combat, not just from edo period samurai. Also remember why we cut across the do from right to left.... 1. You theoretically inflict the most damage to as many organs as possible. 2. Cutting from left to right you miss some major organs (like the liver) and you might end up catching the saya instead of the opponent. 3. Most Japanese armor fastened under the right side, this joint making it weaker in that area. Armor is heavy and solid where it doesn't have to bend or fasten, so pulling the arms down could actually save an armored opponent from severe damage. Although it is still not the best form in modern kendo.

As to hitting hard, you can indeed strike very hard with one hand, almost fully as hard as with two. Remember to use your wrist for the power not the full swing of the arm.