Squat position(Songkyo)?

[Yang Akio]

Do you know about the reason that about the Song kyo?
Why we have to start the playing the Kendo after the Song kyo?
Are there some special reasons to have a Song kyo position? or
This is a just one kind of greeting manner ?

[cpt_Picard]

Do you know about the reason that about the Song kyo?
Why we have to start the playing the Kendo after the Song kyo?
Are there some special reasons to have a Song kyo position? or
This is a just one kind of greeting manner ?

Yeah, as I've been told, it is a greeting manner. But why exactly such position I would also like to know :-)

[hamish]

I'd guess its because you're not going to the extent of sitting down and relaxing totally, nor are you standing in a ready to attack position, but somewhere in the middle.

In some koryu the bow to your opponent is made from sonkyo, not before, so I guess it has more of a traditional meaning. You don't do it in Korea, though, do you?

Hamish

[dorkusxmaximus]

I thought the purpose of sonkyo was so that a person can't charge their opponent in a squatting position :ponder:

[Nishi]

I have been taught that when we bow, we lower ourselves, this as a physical way of humbling yourself before another, a deep sign of mutual respect (about 15 degrees to opponent and 30 degrees to kamizan). You can bow to everybody and anybody, and this is how we start in kendo, we bow to the second "person" and proceed.

When you bow in seiza you dont put your head to the floor exposing the back of your neck, your back is always straight, when standing, sitting or sonkyo, one of my instructors says "if you show the back of your neck, you may loose your head"

We take three large steps forward before drawing the sword and engaging the "opponent", this is where the role of bowing or "lowering yourself" changes. Now you have an opponent infront of you with a drawn sword, you again lower yourself in sonkyo before your opponent, but this time much deeper, like a profound mutual respect for what is about to happen....

Some say the fight is won in sonkyo...

[hamish]

There's also a sense of wariness, too, which is why you don't sit down and bow, but you're almost ready to attack.

Sounds like a good theme for an article!!

Hamish

[Raiza]

I thought the purpose of sonkyo was so that a person can't charge their opponent in a squatting position :ponder:

Ah, you haven't yet received tsuki from sonkyo! :cool:

[sminki]

As far as I know, Koreans don't do it because it's a "Japanese" thing.

For me, sonkyo is that extra moment of getting prepared. When I practiced at Korean dojos, I would walk up, batto and there would sometimes be a question regarding my opponent as to "hey is this guy ready now?" And in a friendly keiko situation, I don't like to just go in and bash the guy without having the guy be ready for it (especially if he's a beginner). For me, sonkyo takes care of that little awkwardness or doubt. It's "walk up, batto, sonkyo, stand then you're ready no matter what".

As I've said, just my personal opinion.

[dorkusxmaximus]

Ah, you haven't yet received tsuki from sonkyo! :cool:

Tsuki from sonkyo?!? Is that even legal?!? :scared:

[Neil Gendzwill]

Tsuki from sonkyo?!? Is that even legal?!? :scared:
Yup. As soon as hajime is called, you can attack. This is something kids typically do (not tsuki though). As an adult it's regarded as somewhat unsporting.

[mingshi]

Read from somewhere but I forgot... Isn't there Sonkyo in Sumo as well?

To me it's like the "ready, steady, go" in sprinting.

BTW a LOT of Sensei over here like to Tsuki from Sonkyo. Even from that position you need a strong centre and upright posture...

[Karaken]

Read from somewhere but I forgot... Isn't there Sonkyo in Sumo as well?

To me it's like the "ready, steady, go" in sprinting.

BTW a LOT of Sensei over here like to Tsuki from Sonkyo. Even from that position you need a strong centre and upright posture...


Hey, I thought that's the reason why EUSKF ( Don't know it's same with IKF or AJKF ) sits you way apart ( at least 5 inches between the tips ) when you shonkyo ( at least during the torny ). No Tsuki or getting up men from that position.

Center

[Neil Gendzwill]

Hey, I thought that's the reason why EUSKF ( Don't know it's same with IKF or AJKF ) sits you way apart ( at least 5 inches between the tips ) when you shonkyo ( at least during the torny ). No Tsuki or getting up men from that position.

Center
Regulation for shiai is 2.8 m apart I think (that's where the toe lines go).

[Yang Akio]

The Korea Kumdo association has to respect the rules of the international Kendo federation....To tell the truth, The Kendo is one of
the martial art of Japanese....I think so..but, In Korea..as you know....
We cannot follow the international Kendo rules even cannot wear the Hakama....Yabaiine!

[bukowski]

Do you know about the reason that about the Song kyo?
Why we have to start the playing the Kendo after the Song kyo?
Are there some special reasons to have a Song kyo position? or
This is a just one kind of greeting manner ?

Sonkyo is a formal way of beginning a match, it is that simple. If something did not exist between the initial rei and the "hajime" call of
the shimpan, then what would we do, simply take three steps and then c
charge at each with a strike? While that did indeed exist in old duels, it
isn't the best of ways to begin match. Kendo is about humbling the self,
this way, both opponents lower themselves before each other and the shimpan.
As for why we sonkyo in the certain position, before WWII it used to be
that sonkyo was actually a more, straight in front squat rather than the
slight turn to the left that exists now. The reason that there is a slight
turn is because it was at one time legal not only to sweep the leg, but
some would attempt to kick in...oh...certain places that the tare comes in really handy.
As others have said, sonkyo isn't a safe position either, the battle begins at sonkyo. 5-Dans can fail an exam at sonkyo for not showing the proper attacking spirit. Also, you can indeed attack from sonkyo, but it is not very effective, once it is seen, no one else will fall for it.
Apparently no one was observing their potential opponents at one tournament that I went to, because the guy who took 3rd place in
the Mudansha division started each of his matches by hitting a quick
men from sonkyo. I would have thought that someone would have caught on to his trick by that time.

[bukowski]

Hey, I thought that's the reason why EUSKF ( Don't know it's same with IKF or AJKF ) sits you way apart ( at least 5 inches between the tips ) when you shonkyo ( at least during the torny ). No Tsuki or getting up men from that position.

Center

That's true, the rule is in place so that the sneaky strike is less likely, however, notice that a person can still attack from sonkyo, though the
distance is now further, it is still legal. The distance rule seems to almost encourage us to try harder to use that opportunity to strike. And, even from that distance, a good sashi-men will hit.

[ben]

In a recent issue of KW magazine the sensei who was discussing the philosophy of kata gave a very interesting explanation of the history and tradition behind sonkyo. This is all off the top of my head BTW. I'll look for the article when I get home. AFAICR he said that originally it came from a Shinto ritual that represents the movement of the two creation deities. This means that the use of sonkyo goes back more than 1000 years.

He also said that this fact is de-emphasised these days for the sake of kendo's universality. This does not cancel out much of what has been said above, but if you want to know *where it came from*, then that, apparently, is where.

b