Awesome Nito you have never seen! [Archive]

Kenshi

17th March 2007, 02:29 PM

BTW, it might not be staged. How do you like them apples? :calm: hehe

?????? Frankly, I dont care either way. You win.

Id prefer kendo to be displayed as is, and not funked up for the audience. Ive seen a number of demonstrations here in Japan, and have participated in them in the UK and US and ive never witnessed kendo being made into something that it isnt.

As for him being the most awsome nito person... its certain that he is good but I suspect ive seen (and felt) better. Its hard to tell when watching something that isnt a truthful representation of kendo. You can at least agree with me on that.

If this is your idea of "awesome kendo" then it wildly differs from mine.

Mukdo_Centered

17th March 2007, 02:46 PM

Id prefer kendo to be displayed as is, and not funked up for the audience. Ive seen a number of demonstrations here in Japan, and have participated in them in the UK and US and ive never witnessed kendo being made into something that it isnt.

It's Kumdo and being demonstrated in Korea, just felt the need to correct you ^_^, either way it's a pretty cool vid.

ahmed61086

17th March 2007, 03:05 PM

[quote]
?????? Frankly, I dont care either way. You win.

Your a cool guy, and I glad you understand sarcasm.

And its nice that some people are humble enough to admit when they have lost.

Id prefer kendo to be displayed as is, and not funked up for the audience. Ive seen a number of demonstrations here in Japan, and have participated in them in the UK and US and ive never witnessed kendo being made into something that it isnt.

As for him being the most awsome nito person... its certain that he is good but I suspect ive seen (and felt) better. Its hard to tell when watching something that isnt a truthful representation of kendo. You can at least agree with me on that.

If this is your idea of "awesome kendo" then it wildly differs from mine.

Yeh, but kendo isn't some super holy thing that has to be exactly the way it is in the Dojo the whole time. I dont see anything wrong with a little entertainment. This seems not only entertaining to kenshi, but to non-kenshi as well. I think your a little to up-tight, if you know what I mean.

Obviously when I said he was the best nito person ever(or something like that), its wasn't meant literally. Hes obviously awesome to watch, doesn't mean hes the best nito kenshi out there.

I would say, if that was not staged, that it was awesome kendo. If it was staged, it was still awesome, but in a different way.

To me, this is the same thing as showing people waza geiko. Its all pre-set movements, to show techniques. This is the same thing, except is is made to look like Ji geiko against three opponents.

EBP2K2

17th March 2007, 03:06 PM

cool demo.

ahmed61086

17th March 2007, 03:09 PM

Ahmed you are the man.

Thanks, lol. :smiley:

Legionario

17th March 2007, 04:21 PM

This is a ballet, not nito. And yes, it appear obvious to my eyes that it is staged, or at least without too much engagement by the three non-nito kenshi.
Anyway I continue not to understand the meaning of this kind of things. Maybe it's just me, I don't know.
Anyways, thanks for posting it, at least it was entertaining.

ahmed61086

17th March 2007, 04:43 PM

at least it was entertaining.

Alas, someone allmost understands. ;)

kanyil

17th March 2007, 06:00 PM

The men-doh renzoku waza alone was worth the download.

Felt almost...aikido like with the various bodies going everwhere. :D

Jiyoui

17th March 2007, 06:58 PM

Well the next reasonable step would be to film it, edits it a lil, add some rock music and make it an ad for your local dojo.

dum dum dummmmmmm~

Neil Gendzwill

18th March 2007, 12:21 AM

EBP2K2

18th March 2007, 04:10 AM

To me, this is the same thing as showing people waza geiko. Its all pre-set movements, to show techniques. This is the same thing, except is is made to look like Ji geiko against three opponents.

it's fun to watch, but to say it's the "same thing" as showing waza, hm, I dunno about that. I'm yet to see anyone in real life swinging the shinai in the circular motinon (to ward off opponents?) as the kenshi does in the video...

except that part, it does remind me of motodachi ai-kakari geiko-ing with raymond sensei. x.x

Karaken

18th March 2007, 05:57 AM

it's fun to watch, but to say it's the "same thing" as showing waza, hm, I dunno about that. I'm yet to see anyone in real life swinging the shinai in the circular motinon (to ward off opponents?) as the kenshi does in the video...

except that part, it does remind me of motodachi ai-kakari geiko-ing with raymond sensei. x.x

The title of the video is " Blue House Demonstration ( Known here in US as the White House) ". Just the fact that Kendo ( or Kumdo ) made to the presidential viewing is very significant for Korean Kendo's future. If you paid attention, (2) guys on right shows traditional Kendo.

ScottUK

18th March 2007, 06:33 AM

That's nowt. I hear that HRH Queen Eliz 2 (http://www.pabudden.com/kodokan/pictures/Queen_12wkc.jpg) is a kendo fan.

misterkurukuru

18th March 2007, 07:25 AM

let's just take it as a demo. is the nito guy skilled? yes! was it staged? yes!
did the demo look good? yes! nice find.

kim

18th March 2007, 08:48 AM

http://flvs.daum.net/flvPlayerOut.swf?vid=zBhmND18GbU$

Simply awesome.:confused:
Sorry I can't seem to axcess the site.

ahmed61086

18th March 2007, 01:53 PM

it's fun to watch, but to say it's the "same thing" as showing waza, hm, I dunno about that. I'm yet to see anyone in real life swinging the shinai in the circular motinon (to ward off opponents?) as the kenshi does in the video...

except that part, it does remind me of motodachi ai-kakari geiko-ing with raymond sensei. x.x

My sabaunim has fun with the younger students by fighting all 15 of them at once. When i saw him doing this, he would swing his sword arounds hitting their shinia, so unless you have seen people fight multiple opponents, you obviously will never see someone swinging a shinia like that. There is no need to do it in a 1 on 1 match. But 1 on 1 is differernt than 1 on 3 or 4, ect.

ahmed61086

18th March 2007, 02:03 PM

:confused:
Sorry I can't seem to axcess the site.

Sorry, I wish I knew a way to help you, but alas, my knowledge of computers is very low.

Kenshi

18th March 2007, 11:03 PM

I think your a little to up-tight, if you know what I mean.

I'll be the first to agree with you on that one!!!

Would like to keep kendo out of the realms of fantasy.. thats all.

It's Kumdo and being demonstrated in Korea, just felt the need to correct you ^_^

[No comment]

Gessho

19th March 2007, 12:53 AM

http://flvs.daum.net/flvPlayerOut.swf?vid=zBhmND18GbU$

Simply awesome.

Good chanbara! Was there any kendo involved?

JCM

19th March 2007, 02:33 AM

It's just a drill. We do the same drill, albeit noone here plays nito. Get a circle of guys with one in the centre, have them attack one after the other, centre guy has to defend with various oji-waza. We nick-name it "monkey in the middle". Makes a good demo. The nito makes it look flashier, I'll admit. But I expect any decent nito guy could do the same drill.

Thank you for that Neil

This is a common drill in many dojos, including mine, the purpose is not perfect Kendo, is done to train for reaction time and stamina. As for being staged, I would disagree, some of our Yudandsa can be extremely impressive in a similar way.

[rant]Why must we pick holes everything all the time? :rolleyes:

ahmed61086

19th March 2007, 07:47 AM

I have a feeling this is the reaction of KWFer's mostly. It seems that a lot of people on this forum are so afraid of anything that is not super traditional.

Kenshi

19th March 2007, 05:53 PM

[rant]Why must we pick holes everything all the time? :rolleyes:

Some people pick holes, I hope I was not one of them. Hey, I even admited im stuck up!!!! One of the reasons I even commented on stuff like this is because there are many people iving in their own little kendo worlds and I think its good to share/disseminate correct information and valuable experiences, including pointing things out that are non-standard or irregular. Im not telling you that you cant enjoy watching this video, nor even doing the excercise.

For example if you make a sweeping general comment like this:

This is a common drill in many dojos....

.. many people will believe you. Im not saying the drill is not useful nor cool nor done in the odd dojo or whatever, but I would certainly say its NOT a "common drill in many dojos." You could of-course have been to alot more dojos than I and done this drill 100 times, I have no idea.

I have a feeling this is the reaction of KWFer's mostly. It seems that a lot of people on this forum are so afraid of anything that is not super traditional.

I just think that a lot of people on this forum really like and are passionate about kendo...probably some of them more than you.

ahmed61086

19th March 2007, 08:09 PM

..................

ahmed61086

19th March 2007, 08:15 PM

I just think that a lot of people on this forum really like and are passionate about kendo...probably some of them more than you.

I don't doubt that there are people more passionate about kendo than me(I personally dont know many who are, though).

I think you confuse over-zealousness with passion. I dont see how you could judge someones passion for something, on if they think a demo is cool or not.

But I guess anyone who disagrees with your philosophy on kendo is probably dispassionate.

Hisham

19th March 2007, 08:30 PM

In my ex-dojo we called it "le cercle de la mort" meaning: the circle of death, i found it great to measure my alertness level, gyaku do worked pretty well in that situation since most of the time it's your men that everybody wants to strike.

PS: Don't bother arguing about this and agree to disagree guys.

ScottUK

19th March 2007, 09:05 PM

I think you are somewhat delusional on what you think being passionate is. If you mean, over zealous, than yes, I bet there are hundreds of Japanese wannabes that are much more over zealous about what kendo should be than me.

But other than that, you cannot judge somewhats elses passion for something based on a difference in opinion on what is acceptable in Kendo, especially when it comes to something which has no correct answer. Whether or not this demo is acceptable is a moot point, you will get different opinions on that from different people, as you have seen on this thread.

But I guess anyone who disagrees with you is dispassionate.Nice post Ahmed. I have left the appropriate -rep. :rolleyes:

Charlie

19th March 2007, 10:41 PM

It looks staged but I think, you know, when you demo something, it's okay to jazz it up a little. I liked it!

Shazzanzzz

19th March 2007, 11:14 PM

We do the same exercise sometimes too. It doesn't look that staged, but maybe they did go in sequence (instead of all at once) a little to make him look better.

It's soooo tiring though. I'm dead after 2 minutes of it.

Neil Gendzwill

19th March 2007, 11:50 PM

We do the same exercise sometimes too. It doesn't look that staged, but maybe they did go in sequence (instead of all at once) a little to make him look better. Of course they have to go in sequence. We don't ever fight people two at a time, no reason to drill that way.

Kenshi

19th March 2007, 11:58 PM

I don't doubt that there are people more passionate about kendo than me(I personally dont know many who are, though)....But I guess anyone who disagrees with your philosophy on kendo is probably dispassionate.

Dude.... the quote of mine youve taken time to reply to wasnt really about this demo specifically, and whatever you have said negatively towards myself applies equally to yourself. Feel free to call me delusional as much as you like.

I personally dont really care about this demo... so, for the 2nd time, please take the win. Peace.

Shazzanzzz

20th March 2007, 12:12 AM

Of course they have to go in sequence. We don't ever fight people two at a time, no reason to drill that way.

I meant that they stayed back a little and waited for the person to clear before they attacked. The way we do it (we dont' really do it taht much btw), it's your own job to make separation from you and the other people, and make it as much one on one as possible, and not let someone attack you from behind or from the side.

ahmed61086

20th March 2007, 12:40 AM

Nice post Ahmed. I have left the appropriate -rep. :rolleyes:

I agree with you, it was a nice post.

Obviously you didn't see the offensive statement thrown at me by Mr. Kenshi. Its is just appropriate that I throw an offensive one back.

Thanks for the negative rep by the way, all those green ones were making me bored.

ScottUK

20th March 2007, 12:41 AM

I agree with you, it was a nice post.Ah, irony is lost on some people.

ahmed61086

20th March 2007, 12:44 AM

Dude.... the quote of mine youve taken time to reply to wasnt really about this demo specifically, and whatever you have said negatively towards myself applies equally to yourself. Feel free to call me delusional as much as you like.

I personally dont really care about this demo... so, for the 2nd time, please take the win. Peace.

Im sorry to dissapoint you, but Im not here to win anything. This is simply a matter of a opinion on this topic, whether it is concerning this demo, or other demos, or anything of this matter. I dont have a problem with your opinion, I just disagree with it. Thats just the way it is. I did have a problem with you insinuating me as being dispassionate because I disagreed with you. Or because my philosophy on kendo differs from yours.

ahmed61086

20th March 2007, 12:45 AM

Ah, irony is lost on some people.

Obviously.

JCM

20th March 2007, 03:33 AM

Some people pick holes, I hope I was not one of them. Hey, I even admited im stuck up!!!! One of the reasons I even commented on stuff like this is because there are many people iving in their own little kendo worlds and I think its good to share/disseminate correct information and valuable experiences, including pointing things out that are non-standard or irregular. Im not telling you that you cant enjoy watching this video, nor even doing the excercise.

For example if you make a sweeping general comment like this...

Kenshi, I have no intentions of getting into thread war over this, we just don't agree on this particular one, as you can see three people have answered the thread indicating that they are familiar with this practice, including on high grading person so change 'many' for 'some' dojos in my comment. Some of us find it useful, you don't. That is that

Halcyon

20th March 2007, 04:01 AM

Kenshi, I have no intentions of getting into thread war over this, we just don't agree on this particular one, as you can see three people have answered the thread indicating that they are familiar with this practice, including on high grading person so change 'many' for 'some' dojos in my comment. Some of us find it useful, you don't. That is that
Don't mind George. He's in a bit of a funk lately. Ever since he moved to Japan it seems that he's acquired a bit of a kendo superiority-inferiority complex. It seems that he is dismayed (and rightly so) by some of the drivel posted on this forum. But at the same time, he can't seem to stay away because, I would surmise, he likes to tell those less fortunate than he how misguided they are. George, if you're in New York, let me buy you a drink or two to kill that bug up your a**.:wink:

Kenshi

20th March 2007, 08:38 AM

Don't mind George. He's in a bit of a funk lately.....

I admit ive gone a bit weird since ive come here. Im definetly confused... and sometimes that comes out in my posts. Its difficult to post my opinion here without offending somebody. The thing is - as far as I can make out - im probably doing more kendo, of higher quality, and more times than anyone here (Alex and other high grades living in Japan not withstanding). I could be wrong however. Does that give me a right to comment?? I have no idea. It certainly doesnt make my opinion better than anyone elses.

I will take that drink, and you can pour it directly into the offending orifice (my mouth in this case).

JCM - Cool. Didnt mean to pick on you... other things got my goat.

Kenzan

20th March 2007, 08:58 AM

In my ex-dojo we called it "le cercle de la mort" meaning: the circle of death..

This is what my wife refers to the space precisely 16 feet around me after I've have my fill of Ale and Chili.
LOL
:D

johnkichu

20th March 2007, 09:52 AM

I admit ive gone a bit weird since ive come here. Im definetly confused... and sometimes that comes out in my posts. Its difficult to post my opinion here without offending somebody. The thing is - as far as I can make out - im probably doing more kendo, of higher quality, and more times than anyone here (Alex and other high grades living in Japan not withstanding). I could be wrong however. Does that give me a right to comment?? I have no idea. It certainly doesnt make my opinion better than anyone elses.

I will take that drink, and you can pour it directly into the offending orifice (my mouth in this case).

JCM - Cool. Didnt mean to pick on you... other things got my goat.

George,

If you dont' mind me adding my two cents worth ... No one is questioning your right to comment (which, by the way, is not derived from the quality or the quantity of kendo you do). It's not even what you say, but sometimes how you say it - and insiting that your opinion is better than anyone else's doesn't help. Most of us who have been a while are used to your style - some aren't.

Kenshi

20th March 2007, 10:30 AM

If you dont' mind me adding my two cents worth ... but sometimes how you say it

Cheers John, point taken.

Kenshi

20th March 2007, 02:01 PM

I just realised where this thread went strange... it was my comment to this remark:

I have a feeling this is the reaction of KWFer's mostly. It seems that a lot of people on this forum are so afraid of anything that is not super traditional.

My (offhand and off-thread) comment:

I just think that a lot of people on this forum really like and are passionate about kendo...probably some of them more than you.

Just to clear things up: what I was trying to say is that many people on these forums are passionate about kendo and it shows in their posts. Some of these people may be more "passionate" about kendo than you (or I, or James, Paul, or Claire)

Thats it.

It seems to have been percieved as an insult, and that was far from my point. Apologies.

Anyway, thats me done here.

baysun

20th March 2007, 05:52 PM

Real Nice video...
At Colorado University (Mountain States Budokan/ Rocky Mountain Budokan), Umemoto Hiroshi Sensei had a kind of very high powered Tachigiri Geiko Uchikomi drill that was "something" like this: One defender on one side and about 15 attackers on the other side. The defender would be attacked by 10/15 people consecutively (one after another). Each match would end when whichever came first: about one minute or an ippon, which after the next attacker would come charging at you immediately (if you were the defender), no matter what position you happened to be in. So if "time " or an "ippon" were called and you had your back to the line of attackers you had to turn around and naturally react out of [mushin] to the next charging attacker... It was a beautiful drill because the defender would get into a natural flow. I felt like (No words can express)... Umemoto Sensei and Iwakabe Sensei made us feel "the flow" of multiple attackers that way. When you are in the groove, there is no beginning and no end... (No matter who was the winner, the defender had to face everyone before we changed defenders)!Tremendous!

Another drill, which mostly depended on the honesty of all the students, involved about ten people on one side of the dojo facing 10 people on the other side of the dojo. A third group of about 10 people would walk between them and when sensei said "hajime", ALL Hell Broke Loose! If someone got an
Ippon on you, you had to sit down! So we fought until the last person was standing!!!!! Umemoto Sensei had taught us another new flow, another new groove! I feel completely honored to have been his student and to have experienced this.

Also, sometimes police dojo do drills like this! If I were a teacher in America, no doubt, I'd have my students doing it.

I understand that some people don't like this kind of kendo. I've done neither drill with Nitoh-Ryu, but I can understand the feeling in this video of the defender. It really makes no difference if this is staged or not. IMHO they're teaching you something extremely valuable here.

Everyone should get the All Japan Kendo Federation Dictionary...!!!

ahmed61086

20th March 2007, 06:06 PM

I just realised where this thread went strange... it was my comment to this remark:

My (offhand and off-thread) comment:

Just to clear things up: what I was trying to say is that many people on these forums are passionate about kendo and it shows in their posts. Some of these people may be more "passionate" about kendo than you (or I, or James, Paul, or Claire)

Thats it.

It seems to have been percieved as an insult, and that was far from my point. Apologies.

Anyway, thats me done here.

I also apologise, for my comments as well.

JCM

20th March 2007, 06:36 PM

JCM - Cool. Didnt mean to pick on you... other things got my goat.

Hi Kenshi,

No worries, I know were you were coming from so I dodn't take any offence from your comments, sorry for being a bit dry there

JCM

20th March 2007, 06:52 PM

I understand that some people don't like this kind of kendo. I've done neither drill with Nitoh-Ryu, but I can understand the feeling in this video of the defender. It really makes no difference if this is staged or not. IMHO they're teaching you something extremely valuable here.

I have seen very similar variations of what you describe, and you are right, some people don't like it, I remember someone saying that is 'dirty' kendo (no waiting for an opening, little proper kamae, etc...)

emitbrownne

20th March 2007, 06:58 PM

:confused:
Sorry I can't seem to axcess the site.
Neither can I.

Could anyone help.. the site starts to load then I get error on page message.

I am behind a work firewall here... could that be the issue??

Hisham

20th March 2007, 10:36 PM

This is what my wife refers to the space precisely 16 feet around me after I've have my fill of Ale and Chili.
LOL
:D

Hey man, leave the talk about biological warfare behind closed doors, especially if you're the weapon, some could see you as a threat to national security :D

Charlie

20th March 2007, 11:29 PM

Another drill, which mostly depended on the honesty of all the students, involved about ten people on one side of the dojo facing 10 people on the other side of the dojo. A third group of about 10 people would walk between them and when sensei said "hajime", ALL Hell Broke Loose! If someone got an
Ippon on you, you had to sit down! So we fought until the last person was standing!!!!! Umemoto Sensei had taught us another new flow, another new groove! I feel completely honored to have been his student and to have experienced this.

Wow. In this drill, is the only rule - don't hit someone in the back of the head/body?

baysun

21st March 2007, 11:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by baysun
I understand that some people don't like this kind of kendo. I've done neither drill with Nitoh-Ryu, but I can understand the feeling in this video of the defender. It really makes no difference if this is staged or not. IMHO they're teaching you something extremely valuable here.
__________

Wow. In this drill, is the only rule - don't hit someone in the back of the head/body?

_____
Concerning Second Drill:
Yeh Charlie, you can't hit someone from the back and 2 or 3 people shouldn't jump one... But there always were some close calls in the excitement... If, for example, you score an ippon, sometimes you could get 2 or 3 people immediately attacking you (and from different directions). If you go for one of them, the 2nd person has to disengage. So if your 2nd attacker hits, for example, your kote, it is not an ippon because you elected the first one. Also if the teacher calls you "out", you were "out"! You might wanna use 2/3 shimpan. The honesty of the students is important, but sometimes they get caught up in the excitement!!! I wanted to say that the first drill was my favorite, but, I love them both.

As a note, when I lived in the NY area, there was this thing about New Yorkers Not Liking Los Angeles! As a youngster, I fell into the same trap! " I don't like LA! " " I don't like LA! " Had I ever been there? > No! Later, I got a chance to work there for a 2 months. And you know what happened? I loved LA.

I had judged LA without having been there. So Charlie, thanks for being open-minded.

Use variations. Both drills have to be high powered/enthusiastic/ like uchikomi or kakari geiko. These drills are more than nice, because they bring out (and extinquishes) something(s) inside of ourselves, that we didn't think were there or more deeply, were not there: "Suteru" throwing away unnecessary thoughts (which you asked about long ago)... "Mushin" the absence of thought... Believe me you are not analyzing things, because you are in a different dimension, and the concept of time is out the window.

After, the teacher can evaluate.

tgsfg

22nd March 2007, 02:43 AM

My dojang does a 1 on multiple opponents drills for the yudanjas (which is only two of us). According to the sensei, it's a way to increase our reaction speed, counter attacks (is it called oji-waza?), stamina, and defense. I also think it's sensei's way of letting the kids have fun. They love the whole "rush the sempai" thing. They like it more when they do that "war" shiai thing mentioned above. Where it's like 3 vs 3 and etc. How many people tried the balloon war thing?

Kashiyasu

13th April 2007, 09:34 AM

I really like Nito... At least watching it since I haven't trained with the two swords yet.

KhawMengLee

13th April 2007, 09:59 AM

That's nowt. I hear that HRH Queen Eliz 2 (http://www.pabudden.com/kodokan/pictures/Queen_12wkc.jpg) is a kendo fan.

Scott, from where I was kneeling on that day I could have got a very morbidly interesting photo of HRH...luckily my common sense noticed before my videocam did.:D

Ahmed, George may seem pretty blunt but its his opinion. He's dedicated a lot of time to his love of kendo(with a little on the side for nihonjin babes) and has enough time under his belt to really define what kendo is to him.

So don't take his words as insult or arrogance but moreso as a viewpoint from a peer(of which he pretty much is for the majority on this forum). Some Sensei are strict and seemingly harsh, others are more soft in their methods...neither are wrong and both can teach you something...its all good teaching and advice.