Debana Do

[Karaken]

Is there such a thing as Debana Do? If Yes, how is it different than Nuki Do? Timing? Personally, I've never heard of it but it came to me as "Why Not?"

[Fonsz]

I guess that it isn't feasible because you'll be hitting an elbow or an arm. Let us know if it has worked for you. Preferably on Youtube or something.

[ben]

Sometimes you can hit do without your opponent raising their arms, but I doubt whether this would be yuko datotsu as it doesn't constitute a valid opportunity. I don't think there is a debana way of doing do. It really is nuki do. But of course you can call it what you like.

b

[misterkurukuru]

isn't do debana, cause the arms have to go up? when you don't make it in time to do a clean do, thats when you do kaishi do, even nuki do is pretty much debana.

[akumalkenshi]

Hidari Dou

Passing through the same side you are attacking. Dont need much of an opening.

[Bennosuke]

Maybe as a Jodan player. Your seme pushes them to go for an attack, but as they are raising you hit do. Or you fake men by raising up, scaring them into a "debana attack" but as they start the attack you are already coming down for do.

[R Stroud]

Debana is defined as "the moment when a player moves forward to try to strike or attack"

Debana waza is defined as "a waza where one strikes just at the moment when the opponent is about to strike or attack. Examples are debana-men, debana-tsuki. Also called degashira waza."

So it appears that debana-doh is in agreement with the definition of debana waza.

[Rularn]

i think the difference between nuki do and debana do is who starts the movement. if you are counteracting a men with do then it is nuki do. if you are moving and forcing a men with the intent to hit do then it is debana do. it is somewhat of a fine line. it is similar to the arguement that there is no true oji waza. that all oji waza is done with seme, forcing your aite to do what you want them to do. if you want to do nuki men, you show kote and bait them. if you want to do degote, bait men and hit as they come for it.

[R Stroud]

With Debana the opponent is moving forward and providing an opportunity for you to deliver a strike. You hit him when he starts to attack. This is Sen no Sen, and part of the Shikake group of techniques.

For nuki waza you are avoiding his strike after he has committed to his attack. He hits air, you follow up with the counter strike. In this case it is Go no Sen, and part of the Oji group of techniques.

Maybe you could think of of the timing as Debana = before, and Nuki = after.

[walnut]

isn't do debana, cause the arms have to go up? when you don't make it in time to do a clean do, thats when you do kaishi do, even nuki do is pretty much debana.

I've always thought of nuki do as debana as well.

[D'Artagnan]

... nuki do is pretty much debana.

what he said...

in my opinion,

nuki dou/'debana' dou = virtually same waza

although I personally don't consider the term 'debana' dou to be apprpriate in this case. You can argue techinically all day long, but I would think of 'debana dou' a bit like I think of 'hiki-tsuki', i.e. non-existant...


...if you are moving and forcing a men with the intent to hit do then it is debana do

that is nuki dou

as you said here -


...all oji waza is done with seme, forcing your aite to do what you want them to do

[ahmed61086]

I wonder, what would happen if you did do hiki tsuki? Get hansoku? Get a realy pissed off aite? Get a realy good laugh?

Its a mystery.

[Neil Gendzwill]

A true debana doh vs men would be pretty tough to pull off, because doh is inherently slower than men. You need to get out of the way of the incoming men. If you think about it, the debana idea in doh is more about the body movement than the hit. You start your step to the right just as he commits to his attack (whether you provoked it or not). Then because your timing has enabled you to avoid the men, your doh is able to come under and score. But if you just moved straight into the opponent, likely his men will beat your doh. Debana kote is popular because the path to the kote is shorter than to the men, so you have a little timing advantage. Debana men is trickier because to make it work against an opponent of equal speed, you really need seme whereas debana kote can work on reaction. Debana doh, you're really at a disadvantage speedwise, so you need that sideways step which makes it nuki doh.

My 2 cents (Canadian) anyways. We always call this waza nuki-doh.

[Karaken]

A true debana doh vs men would be pretty tough to pull off, because doh is inherently slower than men. You need to get out of the way of the incoming men. If you think about it, the debana idea in doh is more about the body movement than the hit. You start your step to the right just as he commits to his attack (whether you provoked it or not). Then because your timing has enabled you to avoid the men, your doh is able to come under and score. But if you just moved straight into the opponent, likely his men will beat your doh. Debana kote is popular because the path to the kote is shorter than to the men, so you have a little timing advantage. Debana men is trickier because to make it work against an opponent of equal speed, you really need seme whereas debana kote can work on reaction. Debana doh, you're really at a disadvantage speedwise, so you need that sideways step which makes it nuki doh.

My 2 cents (Canadian) anyways. We always call this waza nuki-doh.

Is that the same difference between debana men and nuki men ( both against men )? But you don't have to side step to hit nuki men though..

[Neil Gendzwill]

Is that the same difference between debana men and nuki men ( both against men )? But you don't have to side step to hit nuki men though..No, debana men is always straight in. Nuki men involves a step sideways or back and then forward. It's a lot clearer, as you get swing, dodge, swish, smack in that order. Nuki-doh is a lot more compressed because the avoiding step and attacking step are the same.

[h2o]

...but I would think of 'debana dou' a bit like I think of 'hiki-tsuki', i.e. non-existant...
Haha, I have always wanted to try doing a hiki-tsuki, but it seems kinda hard ;)