Starting a Kendo club at University.

[Phorest]

I know several of you practice Kendo at a college or university...and many others of you once did. So, I'm going to ask for a little advice.

The college I'll be attending this Fall (West Virginia University) has no Kendo club. And according to the people I currently practice with (2 hrs away in Bethany WV), WVU has never had a Kendo club. As of right now I drive up to Bethany every Sunday for keiko. And once I move to WVU, it will be almost 45 minutes faster to drive to Bethany. Still, thats a lot to handle while studying for classes on Sunday night. So...I have come to the colcusion that starting a Kendo club at WVU is a good idea. Heres the plan I've developed in my mind...I'd like it if some of you could add a few things or give me advice in this regard.

The Current Plan:
Begin Fall Semester at WVU. One of my classes is Japanese 101. My idea was to ask the teacher, and ask around a little bit to see if I can find anyone who currently (or used to) practice Kendo. Theres also a very casual Japanese restaurant (not cook-at-the-table style) downtown that has a bulletin board with flyers for lots of different things, some of those being for Goju Ryu Karate, Japanese cooking classes, etc. I thought that perhaps if I typed up a flyer, and asked for anyone who currently (or has) practiced Kendo to give me a call, that might attract one or two folks.

Once I have maybe one or two people interested, I could start a practice schedule and reserve a room at the Rec Center for us to use.

Heres the MAIN PROBLEM. We would need a SENSEI! I am not even graded (but will probably go for ikkyu sometime soon). Perhaps if I get really lucky and meet someone who is highly ranked they could teach beginners, so as to increase the number of members in the club. But other than that...I don't know what to do! The only thought I had was perhaps to drive everyone up to Bethany with me on Sundays and do it that way for a while.

Sorry for the long rant...this has just been on my mind a lot lately, and I was hoping that someone who has been through this before could give me a little advice. If not...just ignore the post. :glasses:

[Neil Gendzwill]

As you are practising regularily at Bethany and you have a sensei there, you must ask him permission before trying anything like this. IF he feels you are up to leading a study group AND he has the time/inclination to help you with it, then you can discuss with him how he wants to proceed. Perhaps he will suggest a road trip for your group every 2nd or 3rd weekend, or perhaps he would like to drive over himself and instruct. This is all besides the administrative hassle of getting practice space and all - it may not go quite so smoothly as you think! We used to have a good arrangement with the local university, eventually it got so out of wack we said to hell with it and rented space elsewhere.

[Phorest]

My sensei at bethany has told me that he thinks it is a great idea, and has encouraged me to start a Kendo club at WVU if at all possible. He hasn't, however, given me any pointers, or commited himself to driving down to instruct us or anything like that.

[Nishi]

What plans do you have after you graduate? This dojo will be your responsibility....will you still be able to commit after it serves its purpose to you? You will need a plan my friend, from beginning to end.

[Charlie]

Well, sounds like you have the go-ahead. The best thing to do is to get together with other kenshi and just start practicing if you can. The problem you'll run into is other people will want to join (or the university will force you to let them) - now who will teach the newbies? Certainly some clubs have shodan or nidan-level instructors or even ikkyu instructors/coaches, and the best thing to do is maintain close ties to a home dojo like the one you described.

But I think you'd wanna avoid being in a teaching role until shodan or higher, eh? The other thing you could do is get the club to go to WVU once a month and make sure the noobs get instruction there, using your college dojo as a practice space until they can return to WVU for further instruction.

Sounds like you have a good game plan in re: recruiting other Japanese players. May I suggest you also get involved with the Japanese student association?

[Charlie]

P.S. Keep your questions coming, because I am from a university dojo, too!

[Neil Gendzwill]

What plans do you have after you graduate? This dojo will be your responsibility....will you still be able to commit after it serves its purpose to you? You will need a plan my friend, from beginning to end.

I disagree. Giving the club a good start over the 4 years he's at school is a good thing. If he can get his instructor involved, it will hopefully be self-perpetuating. The main thing is to make sure that the juniors coming up are prepared to take over the admin stuff as they become seniors.

[Phorest]

Well as of right now...I would feel very uncomfortable teaching. Not that I can't relay some of the basics to a noob....but I am still getting the hang of the basics myself! So as of right now my Kendo is nowhere good enough to teach, I think. That is why I am hooooping to find someone else who is of a higher rank than me who can teach.

I do feel pretty good about just getting together to practice though...which brings up another question. If its just me and 1-5 other people getting together twice a week, how formal should it be? What I mean is, should we still adhere to strict dojo rules, etc.

Another thing I've thought about....if this club gets going, and I am the main organizing force behind it....it will be strange that once I step into the dojo, I'm the lowest/one of the lowest ranked kendoka....yet outside I'm the President? Should I defer to a higher ranking student to act as the President outside the dojo? How should that work? I mean, they would be my senior...*sigh*.

[Charlie]

Nah, don't worry about it. Just because you're the main organizer doesn't mean you have the be the head cheese during practice, it doesn't. Make announcements and file papers and then grab your shinai and fall in.

As for formality, I think the structure of kendo practice should be adhered to at all times. It's not a hard set of rules to remember and keep up.

I hope you can find some more peeps to practice with but don't be disappointed if you don't. Sometimes you meet Japanese or others who have experience but they don't want to participate due to school or work or they're just sick of it and would rather drink beer and play frisbee tag.

:shocked:

[PhilMcLaughlin]

Well as of right now...I would feel very uncomfortable teaching. Not that I can't relay some of the basics to a noob....but I am still getting the hang of the basics myself! So as of right now my Kendo is nowhere good enough to teach, I think. That is why I am hooooping to find someone else who is of a higher rank than me who can teach.


Hi Phorest

No matter how good you get that wont really change (its just that the level will improve

In any case what you are potentially talking about here is a study group rather than a 'traditional' dojo and the outside worlds expectations would be slightly different. Go for it ! - if you dont its unlikely anyone else will



I do feel pretty good about just getting together to practice though...which brings up another question. If its just me and 1-5 other people getting together twice a week, how formal should it be? What I mean is, should we still adhere to strict dojo rules, etc.


It's your dojo so you get to choose. However I think it would be a good idea to work hard on the small points even when together as it will show up when you travel outside. You might consider a relatively democratic system for dojo admin / decisions / drinking but then opt for full on reigei during practise time



Another thing I've thought about....if this club gets going, and I am the main organizing force behind it....it will be strange that once I step into the dojo, I'm the lowest/one of the lowest ranked kendoka....yet outside I'm the President? Should I defer to a higher ranking student to act as the President outside the dojo? How should that work? I mean, they would be my senior...*sigh*.

You could juggle about with job title a bit. We often use the term 'Dojo Leader' when the dojo is being run by a more junior grade (us:) than might otherwise be typical. Bottom line is that you dont have to combine the role of sensei with dojo administration - this being avery good point for a university dojo. Its common for them to spring up because of an enterprising individual such as yourself an then die off again when that person leaves. If you can clearly set up a regime with an instructor (sensei) and a dojo leader then the dojo has a better chance

From your earlier posts it also sound slike your sensei is supportive of the idea - so much so that if you were to ask him for help and guidance in finding a senior you might get lucky

From my acadmic life I think the biggest likely problems are going to be organisational and logistical. Universities often have policies on exactly who can be a member of a university club ( which could scupper any plans for an outside senior or even outside kenshhi) and where you can train (at sensible times)

be careful about insurances and instructor accreditations - the US style personal claims culture has hit the UK and the BKA now has to prove that it has taken all possible steps to avoid risks etc and that is a monumental pain

These hassle might want you to give up the struggle but plug away and youll do well. You may end up outside the university itself but go for it anyway.

Lots of well established dojos in the west have started out just as you are proposing so im sure you will be able to find help (just like this thread)

I wish you the very best of luck with the new dojo and your studies (if you can fit any in around your beer and kendo :-)

cheers

[AlexM]

I agree with everything Neil and Charlie have said.

I'd also like to add that you shouldn't feel bad about being the club president despite not being the head instructor. It's perfectly normal I think.

Up here most of the club's activities are actually managed by the students. Our sensei usually only helps out with regards to financial matters (and of course suggesting things like invitations and club activities). The club president, treasurers, equipment managers, email guys, etc. are all students. Their rank doesn't really influence what task they have to do, it's whoever is most implicated in the club (and sometimes people that have specific skills related to their tasks).

If you're starting this club you're in effect the one in charge by default, no need to feel uncomfortable about it.

One more thing, activities (even non-kendo related) are good for any dojo. Take roadtrips to visit other dojos or just go play paintball or something. Have fun.

Forgot to mention, doesn't your Uni. have a message board or something? Use it. Also try to make sure that it reaches the graduate students too, they sometimes have separate message/bulletin boards.

[Phorest]

Thanks Phil, Neil, Charlie, and Alex.

I appreciate the reassurance that I can act as a leader outside the dojo but not so much inside. That was my initial intention... but I haven't really been around any University clubs so I wasn't sure how things are supposed to work.

As far as how I am going to set things up with the University....who knows! I move in to my apartment on Friday...and classes start Monday. Things may be a bit hectic for a while, but I want to get going with this Kendo thing ASAP. I'll talk to our Rec Center and see what I can figure out.

I'll update you guys on the progress and I'll be sure to pass along any questions come up with along the way!

Thanks again!

[Neil Gendzwill]

Regarding being the dojo leader - so long as everybody has had some time with your sensei, you can lead the class. You don't need to teach or correct, just be the one to say "OK, now do 100 shomenuchi". Your teaching should be restricted to simply demonstrating what the exercise is in case people forget the terminology. Talk to your sensei about class plans or just make notes on what is currently happening, then just direct the class. The teaching can occur next time sensei visits or next time you do a class road trip. As people get more comfortable with the situation, perhaps your sensei can suggest a checklist of things that you can watch for in each other.

[heri0n]

what happened to u of t?

[Neil Gendzwill]

what happened to u of t?
Still there along with the rest of the city I expect. Did you hear something about the kendo club? As far as I know it's still ticking along.

[heri0n]

err i meant .. i thought phorest was gonna go to u of t... but hes not..
yeah their clubs still there

[Phorest]

err i meant .. i thought phorest was gonna go to u of t... but hes not..
yeah their clubs still there

You know whats funny....Well...

I decided not to go to UofT. For various reasons but....

They still havent sent me an acceptance/denial letter! I'm sure glad I wasn't banking on going there! Its funny...I got a confirmation that I had applied, but they have yet to send me an acceptance or a denial letter. Haven't heard word one from them!

Heheh...maybe my scores were that bad.

I came up for the UofT Kendo tourney and met up with AlexM, kendokamax and others....it was really fun.

But now I'm going to West Virginia University. And theres almost no Kendo in this terrible excuse for a state.

[heri0n]

i see.. i didnt see u at the tourney..
well i'll be enjoying kendo at the university of waterloo :D
what program are you going into

[Phorest]

I'm going into International Studies, with a focus in Law. Lawschool after, hopefully.

Yeah I looked for you, and never did see you!

Waterloo eh? Maybe I will have to venture up to Canada for a tourney.

Speaking of that, how long should I wait before the new WVU Kendo club should participate in tournaments? :) I wonder if we should get our own Zekken, or take Zekken from our "parent" dojo at Bethany. Hmm.

[AlexM]

Phorest,

Shouldn't you be checkinbg with the US kendo federation (or one of those regional ones)? I'm sure they can tell you about tourneys in your area and about maybe getting some help to set up your dojo (affiliation perhaps? used bogu perhaps? visit from sensei perhaps?). I'm not sure but you might need to register with them to be "recognized"... Or they'll laugh at you and think you're nuts.

Zekken are expensive... use tape :D .

[Phorest]

Used bogu is gonna be a big thing. I don't see how I can get people into it without telling them they're gonna have to shell out $500 in a year for bogu.

Thats a good idea Alex, I'll check it out.

[nodachi]

Used bogu is gonna be a big thing. I don't see how I can get people into it without telling them they're gonna have to shell out $500 in a year for bogu.

Thats a good idea Alex, I'll check it out.


I used to think that bogu was expensive. I still do, however, if one knows that they are going to need it, and it takes anywhere from 6 months to a year to get it, depending on the person, that is quite a nice chunk of time to save up little by little each month by setting aside some cash for it.

I know in a one shot deal of laying out the cash it seems expensive, but if you let people know they should be saving for it from the beginning, it will SEEM more managable. Know what I mean? Budgetting is your friend and makes those big purchases less overwhelming.

[Phorest]

HOLY CRAP!
Very good news. I talked to my Japanese professor, and she informs me that there is a Japanese exchange student who does Kendo, and who has been asking around to try to find people to practice with. This couldn't have worked out any better if I'd planned it.

I'll keep you posted on things as they develop. WVU might be having a Kendo club soon!

[Ryukyu]

Phorest,

Bogubag.com has a great deal on bogu.
For $350 you get the Koei GZ-17 (5mm machine stitched) with a zekken, a canvas bogubag, with shipping included.
I don't know if you can do much better even with used bogu.
If you're interested, go to the website and click on the link for specials in the middle of the page.

[Phorest]

Ok heres an update.

I met an exchange student from Osaka that does Kendo. She is a Sandan, Taisho of her highschool team. So needless to say..she is awesome. We had an impromptu keiko today at the Student Rec Center. It was great fun! The only thing is that...the room we used is on the top floor...and the locker rooms are on the bottom floor. So...we had to walk by EVERYONE who was lifting weights or running on the treadmill on our way back upstairs. You wanna talk about people staring at you...wow. Then not only that..but while we were practicing...we drew a little audience outside the room that just watched us for most of the time. It was kinda flattering...yet made me really nervous! :normal:

But...I'm glad that I'm finally having keiko here at WVU. I talked to her about the possibility of starting a club, and she seemed to think it was a good idea.

So....now to recruit people! Whats the best way?! :ninja:

Any brilliant ideas?

[xvikingx]

Lots of flyers posted around campus. You'll get all sorts of kooks, but most of them are weeded out after the first. *Disclaimer: Of course this goes for any clubs in general not specifically a kendo club. I have never tried to start a kendo club* It will be nice if you find more people with experience because it will be full of beginners. Good luck and have fun.

[Neil Gendzwill]

We just use posters. Make them big - use 11 X 17 instead of regular paper. Use a nice simple graphic, black and white is fine. Keep the info simple (date, place, time) and make sure to include a phone number or e-mail address people can contact for more info. I've attached our poster from last year as an example.

[AlexM]

At McGill there's an "Activities night" during the second week of the semester. All the clubs in the Uni. set up little stands or kiosks in the Shatner Building (and yes, it's named after William "I am Kirk" Shatner) and try to get students interested in their karate/aikido/fencing/cross-country skiing/cross-dressing/science fiction/hockey/...etc. clubs.

The kendo club also sets up a nifty little kiosk complete with videos from All-Japan tournaments and some poor sap in dressed in bogu. We then spend most of the evening trying to convince people that it doesn't hurt that much.

Maybe UWV has a similar event which you could participate in?

[Phorest]

Neil: Thanks for attaching that poster...it gives me some ideas. Among those...a website! I get a free website with my university e-mail account...so I'll look into that.

Alex: Yes thats a great idea! Only thing is that we are not an official club yet. But...once we are I will be sure to participate in the "Student Organization Fair". They had it last week here...I went and it was pretty cheezy. But...yes, good idea.

Thanks guys.

[Kent Enfield]

Okay, I havn't responded to this thread so far, but it seems I'm actually qualified to give information for once. I was a foudning member of our university's kendo club.

At least you have someone who is marginally qualified to lead practice. But be aware that she likely has no experience running a practice and comes from a different practice structure than is likely appropriate for a fledging club. You're most likely going to have to help her with the structure of practice.

Posters and a website have worked quite well for us as advertising. For posters, make sure they photocopy well and copy them onto colored paper so that they stand out in a sea of used car and tutor ads. For the website, don't worry about making it flashy, make it informative. Give people the when and where of practice, and a brief description of what kendo is.

As for getting stared at, get used to it. It's going to happen. A lot. For our first half-year, we practiced in the racquetball and squash courts. Unfortunately, they have open windows at the top for ventialtion which connect to a on open hallway and basketball courts. Not everyone was happy with our shouting.

Your fledging club is also going to have a huge turnover. Don't let it discourage you. People are going to try it out and decide it's not for them. And you will get kooks. We tend to get a lot of anime otaku, but fortunately most of them quit.

You're also going to have to work very hard at setting the tone of the club. People will be lazy and turn it into a social event if you let them. It's up to you to make sure that practice starts on time and the like. You're going to have to lead by example.

It seems you already have an acceptable practice spave available, but once you become an official organization (your school should have a procedure for this and people to help you with it), things open up a bit more. Once that happens you'll have the opportunity to at least request money like all the other organizations, and you'll probably have an easier time reserving practice space. However, those benefits probably won't happen until next school year.

We used to do the activities fairs as well, but it lead to us having two groups of beginners: those who saw fliers and started at the beginning of the term and those who saw us at the fair and started several weeks later. We eventually stopped doing the fairs all together, though we still do demonstrations for Japan Night. Try them and see how it goes.

[Phorest]

Kent...excellent post! That is a big help. I'm pretty sure I'll go ahead and start printing up flyers as soon as I have a website functioning. Eventually I would like to get officially recognized by WVU...but I think I'll wait till we attract a few more members.

I'm really excited about this! *runs off to work some HTML magic*

[Charlie]

Kent speaks much truth here, and I have little to add. I have noticed, though, that it seems like in a university setting you get half a dozen or more people that come out every semester and only one or two of them stay. But! After two-three semesters, you have quite a nice little club! (This was the case with my club. I did not found it but I was one of the early "keepers" and now I am the main organizational guy.)

[KendoShiai]

The only thing that I would like to add is that the two best sources of advertisement that I have done is #1 the web site. Seems that’s the first place a lot of people turn to. Make sure that if you do a search on Google of any of the search engines, that your site comes up first or near first. Be specific. Search engines will not spider graphics so use the club name in the header. But there are tons of books out there about that. The #2 place is by my local martial arts store. They send me more not only new students but people that come into town that ask if there is Kendo local. I just had a gentleman from Texas visit here with me. I baby them down at East Coast Marital Arts Supply and they in turn baby me. You know the old you scratch my back routine. The only other thing I would say is once you get established have your web site linked from as many main Kendo web sites that you can.

http://www.auskf.info/
http://www.obukan.com/links.html
http://www.kendo-usa.org./
http://www.ecmas.com/

Any place that people will go to find out more about Kendo. As I said I have had 10 people in the last week seek me out all because of the web. Good luck.

[swrdply400mrela]

Kent...excellent post! That is a big help. I'm pretty sure I'll go ahead and start printing up flyers as soon as I have a website functioning. Eventually I would like to get officially recognized by WVU...but I think I'll wait till we attract a few more members.

I'm really excited about this! *runs off to work some HTML magic*

Hi Phorest, I belong to the Texas A&M Kendo Kyokai, and we started almost 4 years ago with the help of U of T. This year we had a booth at open house, which displayed all the clubs of the university, and we got about 90 people to sign up for the beginners class. Of course we only expect about 1/3-1/2 to show up, and only 2-3 to stay with us. But nonetheless, this will help our club grow. My advice is to definitely get in touch with a lot of grad students, because 1) that is how we found our awesome sensei, 2) they may already have experience 3) they tend to be more dedicated.

Good luck with your club and keep us updated!

Mike

[Shazzanzzz]

hmm...Phorest, you're at wvu. I wonder how far away you guys are from Virginia Tech (where i'm at). Anyways, our kendo club kinda faded away 2 years ago because all the older members either lost interest or graduated. Last year was kind of a rebuilding year, we pretty much had to start from scratch, and only had less than 10 paying members (we need money for insurance, school policy). But, we still had fun. We did a lot more advertising beginning of this semester (because of better leadership, including me, hehe) and attended the club fair for our school, and there were generally a good amount of people who are interested in kendo. Right now, we have about 20 people who paid for the club dues and more are showing up every week to watch and participate in the practices.

I don't think getting people to join is the hard part though, it's getting them to stay. You have to make kendo interesting for them. Let them know it's a lot of hard work and that kendo take a really LONG time to learn, but still make the practices interesting. Have activities outside practices too, make friends with the newbies.

We don't have a sensei here, though, so, the officers have to teach the newbies. We're not doing that bad of a job though I dont' think, the newbies are getting quite good. We plan to go to the dojo in Northern Virginia once a month, too, to get regular "certified" instructions.

We're still working on getting officially sponsored by our school and stuff (to get money from them). Our predecessors didn't do a good job starting the club at all. So, make sure you do a good job the first time around...

As for the tournaments, for colleges, the big one is the one in Harvard in April. A lot of school goes there, we did for the first time last year. There is also one in Cornell sometime in November, but I don't know if they are going to have one this year, I haven't heard anything about it.

Keep us updated about your club situation, and good luck!

[Miyu]

hmm...Phorest, you're at wvu. I wonder how far away you guys are from Virginia Tech (where i'm at). Anyways, our kendo club kinda faded away 2 years ago because all the older members either lost interest or graduated. Last year was kind of a rebuilding year, we pretty much had to start from scratch, and only had less than 10 paying members (we need money for insurance, school policy). But, we still had fun.

Good to hear that you guys got back on your feet! My brother went to your club a few times. William and Mary had almost a similar problem, but luckily I was able to keep it alive. It's hard work running a college club so kudos to you.

[Jerry Wellbrock]

Phorrest, I think it is great that you are interested in starting a Kendo Club at WVU. Morgantown is not that far from Pittsburgh and I think there are Kendo Clubs at both University of Pittsburgh and at Carneige Mellon University. I know that you have been at Salem Teikyo and between those three perhaps you can work something out for occassional visits from from the different instructors. Also find out which region you are in (I think it is the East Central US Kendo Federation) and approach that group for either advise and/or assistance. Best Wishes and Good Luck. Drop me a note anytime and I will come and visit you. Jerry :old_man:

[Shazzanzzz]

Miyu, you said your brother has been to our club a few times. Who is he?

[Phorest]

Just as an update:

Here is the website I whipped up.

http://community.wvu.edu/~wmf004/

[SpeedCAT]

Hi,
I have same situation...here...I want to start a club.....but there is no dojo kendo here.

Here is my email organize452000@yahoo.com

How far you done in creating club?
How to get support from Universtiy to open Kendo CLub?

[Anime12478]

What college are you going to?