Theoretically speaking

[JCM]

Before I ask the question I want to stress this is not a philosophical, good vs. bad or ethics question, I am just curious about what the rules say on this.

Say that you got awarded ippon in shiai (you scored it) but you know it wasn't, like hitting just outside the kote but everything looked ok from the refrees' point of view.

Can you let the shimpan know/refuse ippon?. Or would it be inappropriate to do so?. According to what I read this complaints are only appropriate after the match and by your Taisho or coach, but at that point is probably pointless.

[JSchmidt]

Before I ask the question I want to stress this is not a philosophical, good vs. bad or ethics question, I am just curious about what the rules say on this.

Say that you got awarded ippon in shiai (you scored it) but you know it wasn't, like hitting just outside the kote but everything looked ok from the refrees' point of view.

Can you let the shimpan know/refuse ippon?. Or would it be inappropriate to do so?. According to what I read this complaints are only appropriate after the match and by your Taisho or coach, but at that point is probably pointless.

You win some, you lose some...it all evens out at the end.

[Shazzanzzz]

actually hitting the target is about 1/3 of an ippon i would say. Other parts are form/spirit and zanshin. So I don't think you should worry about it that much.

Plus, refusing a point is the same as complaining about a point being scored on you you didn't think was a point. You are questioning the shimpan's judgement, so they wouldn't like it at all.

[Kyung]

You should just focus on the match when you're sparring or whatnot. My master says that even though you may not hit clearly, you should always have loud kihap to exert that you hit, for the psychological effect. It's not always about clean hits.

[Neil Gendzwill]

After a while you realize that you win some and lose some by what you perceive as referee mistake. So you have to just accept both, this is part of shiai.

[shred_lord]

Timing and Opportunity are also big factors in scoring Ippon (so I'm told).

[ahmed61086]

I saw a guy in a shiai get hit, and he felt that his opponenent just scored ippon, but the judges didn't give the point. So he just stood there untill his opponent hit him again, to get a point. I guess he felt his opponent deserved it, and that the shimpans didn't make the right call.

I personally would have kept fighting, but I can see why he did it. I think the shimpan might have been offended though.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I think the shimpan might have been offended though.Not half as offended as his coach, I'll bet.

[Kyung]

Not half as offended as his coach, I'll bet.

I would never hear the end of that from my master if I ever pulled something like that for sure

[shred_lord]

I saw a guy in a shiai get hit, and he felt that his opponenent just scored ippon, but the judges didn't give the point.

Key word bolded.

I love fencing people who self-judge. It only ever makes my job easier. :tongue:

[JCM]

After a while you realize that you win some and lose some by what you perceive as referee mistake. So you have to just accept both, this is part of shiai.

Very true. I have sometimes lost to bad decisions on precisely the opposite scenario. I guess you guys are right

[Obulco]

I saw a guy in a shiai get hit, and he felt that his opponenent just scored ippon, but the judges didn't give the point. So he just stood there untill his opponent hit him again, to get a point. I guess he felt his opponent deserved it, and that the shimpans didn't make the right call.

Interesting case. Either the most honorable or the most arrogant thing to do in a shiai. Or perhaps both.

[剣、ビールおよび女の子]

This thread reminds me of a similar issue:

At the last Shinsa I attended, one of the Shodan candidates had a little wobble in kata sanbonme (as you do).

The panel were going to let this go and pass him, but before the chair had a chance to signal the shodan grading was over, he raised his hand and asked if he could repeat the kata. The chair agreed and he repeated it in front of the panel. He made the same mistake again.

This time, as he had drawn attention to the mistake and then repeated it in front of everyone, the panel had no option but to fail his kata (don't worry - under new BKA rules, he will be able to take the kata exam separately at next shinsa - so it is not too sad a story).

Now - here is the dilemma. If he had kept his gob shut, he most probably would have scraped through no problem. However, in the pub afterwards, the examiners all expressed admiration for his balls (figuratively).

what's more important - the menjo, or kudos from a bunch of senior grades?

[The great I AM]

the menjo, or kudos from a bunch of senior grades?Unless he was happy with what he did, then neither.

[The great I AM]

I saw a guy in a shiai get hit, and he felt that his opponenent just scored ippon, but the judges didn't give the point. So he just stood there untill his opponent hit him again, to get a point. I guess he felt his opponent deserved it, and that the shimpans didn't make the right call.

I personally would have kept fighting, but I can see why he did it. I think the shimpan might have been offended though.Double post goodness.

I was in a bit of shiaigeiko once where a guy did this to/for me. And I hated it. Its like a handout, or a feeling-sorry-for-you ippon. I felt stupid when I realised what he did, because weather or not you agree, its not and never should be your decision, otherwise why even bother having shinpan. They are there for a reason, same as you, and in most cases those reasons are different. Add to that the fact that if you don't want to take his free ippon, you just have two people standing there doing nothing, which just looks bloody silly.

Plus that shinpan did get offended, and called the guy an idiot and a law unto himself.

[MrBump]

Screwing around like that is like deliberately scoring an own-goal in football. It's an obvious protest, and brings all kinds of unneccessary issues into the match and takes away from the true spirit of the sport.

[Hisham]

I guess he felt his opponent deserved it, and that the shimpans didn't make the right call.


I guess that is why shiai or competition in general isn't for everybody.

[Washington]

I don't complain about the questionable hits scored on me because I don't complain about the questionable hits I score on others :)