How high is the heel?

[ahmed61086]

Well, it seems that most people say that heel should be only a very short distance from the floor. Yet, in high level competition, I see a lot of the kendoka have their heels higher off the floor, than what is taught. It also seems that this is partly the reason why they are so fast and are able to "explode" when they want to.

I have heard some people say, that only those who are very accomplished, can have their heels a little bit higher up off the floor, yet still get the desired push, speed, and distance. What is the the truth behind the heel?

I would like to the know the standard(Ideal) Idea, and then the more practical one(if that exists).

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

[ben]

A high heel (unless you're talking Blahniks) is usually a sign of nervousness or high tension. I would disagree that it enables more explosive fumikiri, rather, it limits the potential spring by shortening the distance your calf and achilles can travel in the push off. High heel position in competition often is accompanied by a wide stance, both a sign of nerves.

I tell my students "about 2cm", knowing that they will all imagine that as bigger than what it is. The crucial point is not the height, but the stability or strength (not muscular tension) of the left leg, esp the left knee, not to buckle under the force of the opponent's seme.

b

[SmellsLikeBogu]

ok, there are 2 kinds of kendo:

-propper kendo how we are taught
-and the crappy gone-to-pot kendo it becomes when we are in shiai :p

the better your propper practice kendo becomes, the cleaner your shiai kendo will come out.
thats my theory anyways

[Sparv]

I asked the question to my sensei last week. (he is a sixth dan renshi). He said: "just don't care. The most important is that you put around 70% of your weight on the left feet. The rest will come from that, and it varies much with people". BUT remember: it is an answer to a beginner. By the way, his heel is very close to the floor in keiko, but he uses jodan.

[SmellsLikeBogu]

problem is if you heel is higher, your knee is probably bent to much, thus for pushing off you need to stretch out your leg (lowering your heel) before you start going forward. resulting in loss of speed. Thats the explanation I got anyways :)

[Wyrlss]

I try to keep my heel pretty high in jodan, so I look bigger. I don't believe it shortens my possible forward movements, but I could be wrong.
Oh, and Sparv, he meant your left foot in chodan gamae, right?

[MikeW]

I have always been taught to have my heel no higher than 2 fingers distance off the floor.

[Sparv]

I try to keep my heel pretty high in jodan, so I look bigger. I don't believe it shortens my possible forward movements, but I could be wrong.
Oh, and Sparv, he meant your left foot in chodan gamae, right?

Right (or left) (I want to say that what you say is true). There are too many left and right in the world. Why are there more than one side :D ? Why right=not wrong and right=not left are the same (english is annoying sometime)? Why does the brits drive on the wrong (left) side of the road?

Hopefully, there are no shoes in kendo. Sometimes I just do not put the right (not wrong) kote on the right (not what-you-want) hand.

[Wyrlss]

Just remember the conversion:
Two rights=One wrong
Three lefts=One right

[The Limp]

problem is if you heel is higher, your knee is probably bent to much, thus for pushing off you need to stretch out your leg (lowering your heel) before you start going forward. resulting in loss of speed. Thats the explanation I got anyways :)

* agrees with Smelly-one *

As far as I know one should keep the back of the left knee "tense" in order to always be prepared to launch an attack. If we refer to Honda's article about Ji-geiko and read what a 6th dan he points out exactly that.

If you heel is to high, your left knee will be bended (as SmellsLikeTeenSpi...mean...LikeBogu said) and you won't be able to accomplish this.

Also, with you heel very high I think it would be very difficult to properly balance the weight of your body (even in jodan-no-kamae)

I've also been taught to rise it as far as 2cm above the floor.

[Kenzan]

I have always been taught to have my heel no higher than 2 fingers distance off the floor.
Or Dojo teaches that the heel should only be high enough to slip a sheet of paper under it.

In practice however.....
:confused2

[euclid]

I would think that raising your heel too high would also substantially increase the possibility of injury.

More pressure exerted on a smaller surface area of the foot = bad

[mark]

I would think that raising your heel too high would also substantially increase the possibility of injury.

More pressure exerted on a smaller surface area of the foot = bad

I have been wondering about that also. In kendo a lot of people injure their achilles and the facia of their feet. I wonder if the height of the left foot is a contributing factor.

[ZtefaNNN[K]]

i think it contributes to injuries, I used sometime ago to havemy left heel too high, I found that I had my left knee bended almost all the time and, that my feet were too separated when doing keiko shiai etc... I had copied that from videos, mainly All japan´s etc. then I came to thought about it, it doesn´t help, it´s good if you´re focusing on oji waza, but a good 50-50 balance is better in my opinion and that´s what my sensei told me too, the point is that it´s harder, and requires alot of practice, but I think it´s much more variable and adptative. I just remembered the eiga documental, he says that he had many injuries, achilles was one of them, and when watching his videos, he has his left heel VERY high.

[Masahiro]

A high heel (unless you're talking Blahniks) is usually a sign of nervousness or high tension. I would disagree that it enables more explosive fumikiri, rather, it limits the potential spring by shortening the distance your calf and achilles can travel in the push off. High heel position in competition often is accompanied by a wide stance, both a sign of nerves.
b

i agree completely.

[ahmed61086]

;251254']i think it contributes to injuries, I used sometime ago to havemy left heel too high, I found that I had my left knee bended almost all the time and, that my feet were too separated when doing keiko shiai etc... I had copied that from videos, mainly All japan´s etc. then I came to thought about it, it doesn´t help, it´s good if you´re focusing on oji waza, but a good 50-50 balance is better in my opinion and that´s what my sensei told me too, the point is that it´s harder, and requires alot of practice, but I think it´s much more variable and adptative. I just remembered the eiga documental, he says that he had many injuries, achilles was one of them, and when watching his videos, he has his left heel VERY high.

See, this is what I am talking about. I know the left heel isn't supposed to be high, yet all the best players in the world, who probably know much more about kendo than we do, have their left foot higher than we are usually taught.

So the question is, why do they do this, unless it is something which has some benefit? I dont think eiga, miyazaki, ect, would have their heels so high, if it was better some other way.

See where I am getting at?

Now I am not saying anybody is wrong, becaue I agree with everyone on the board, but why do these top players do this?

[euclid]

I have been wondering about that also. In kendo a lot of people injure their achilles and the facia of their feet. I wonder if the height of the left foot is a contributing factor.

I believe that stress of that kind along the bottom of the foot could very easily contribute to plantar fasciitus as well as possibly spraining toes (if rolling the foot forward) and achilles tendon injuries.

[JSchmidt]

problem is if you heel is higher, your knee is probably bent to much, thus for pushing off you need to stretch out your leg (lowering your heel) before you start going forward. resulting in loss of speed. Thats the explanation I got anyways :)

I disagree. With a bent rear knee you can better utilize your quads, the biggest muscles in your leg.
The top players do it, because they got the footwork to support it and it'll give them a wider range of movement. For the rest of us mortals, who don't have footwork to support that, we are much better off sticking to more orthodox footwork. (You will also notice as those Japanese players gets older , not quite as agile and starting to aim for the higher grades, they will return to more a more orthodox stance).

Jakob

[ben]

I disagree Batman. Your Quads might be the biggest muscle in your legs, but kendo footwork is not going to utilise them. It's just the biomechanics of the launch.

b

[ZtefaNNN[K]]

I disagree Batman. Your Quads might be the biggest muscle in your legs, but kendo footwork is not going to utilise them. It's just the biomechanics of the launch.

b

agreed.

plus, not every "top kendo player" uses his feet the same way, in the end it comes to what do you want to do and what suits you better. I haven´t seen many women kendo vids, but she doesn´t use this kind of footwork with bended knees and that stuff, and she always says that acorrect footwork is better, I really think it´s better as she says, she has quite a curriculum at taikais, and also, when I improved my footwork and stopped bending my left knee it helped me to perform much better.

[ZtefaNNN[K]]

I was talking about one of my senseis.

[ahmed61086]

I disagree. With a bent rear knee you can better utilize your quads, the biggest muscles in your leg.
The top players do it, because they got the footwork to support it and it'll give them a wider range of movement. For the rest of us mortals, who don't have footwork to support that, we are much better off sticking to more orthodox footwork. (You will also notice as those Japanese players gets older , not quite as agile and starting to aim for the higher grades, they will return to more a more orthodox stance).

Jakob

Ahhh, this is what I am talking about. So for these top players, its is something that they can do because of there experience and there body adaption to kendo, due to their long years of practice since childhood?

This, I guess is why we see this All Japan players doing it, but we just cant.

My new sensei who just came from Korea, he has been doing kendo since he was a little kid, and he is 24 years old, and 4th dan. His heels is a little higher than orthodox. So I asked him. He said, that everyone is different, and that for his kendo, it is OK for him to have his heel that way. Btw, he is F**&^%$ amazing, and when I say amazing, i mean amazing! Definitly the best I have ever practiced with, I can't even touch him. :dead:

[Karaken]

Ahhh, this is what I am talking about. So for these top players, its is something that they can do because of there experience and there body adaption to kendo, due to their long years of practice since childhood?

This, I guess is why we see this All Japan players doing it, but we just cant.

My new sensei who just came from Korea, he has been doing kendo since he was a little kid, and he is 24 years old, and 4th dan. His heels is a little higher than orthodox. So I asked him. He said, that everyone is different, and that for his kendo, it is OK for him to have his heel that way. Btw, he is F**&^%$ amazing, and when I say amazing, i mean amazing! Definitly the best I have ever practiced with, I can't even touch him. :dead:

Ahmed, if you see any highlight Kendo picture, it'll have a kenshi in the air with right knee bent about 2 feet above the floor and left foot about 4 feet apart and a few inches above the floor. The Shinai already landed on Men but both feet are still in the air. My opinion for the high heel is due to wider stance. It gives you stability and better defense posture. I'd say AJKF players are good despite this wider stance because they are strong and flexible not because of it. If you watch 7-dan, 8-dan tournament, the heels come down significantly and the stance gets narrower. Daniguchi sensei ( 9-dan ) shows almost no visible gap under his heel. If you are as strong and flexible as AJKF players, you might want to experiment to see if wider stance gives you any advantage. But if what you want is speed of attack, you might be better off experimenting with the distribution of your weight between feet and the timing of the shifts.. Cheers!

[ahmed61086]

Ahmed, if you see any highlight Kendo picture, it'll have a kenshi in the air with right knee bent about 2 feet above the floor and left foot about 4 feet apart and a few inches above the floor. The Shinai already landed on Men but both feet are still in the air. My opinion for the high heel is due to wider stance. It gives you stability and better defense posture. I'd say AJKF players are good despite this wider stance because they are strong and flexible not because of it. If you watch 7-dan, 8-dan tournament, the heels come down significantly and the stance gets narrower. Daniguchi sensei ( 9-dan ) shows almost no visible gap under his heel. If you are as strong and flexible as AJKF players, you might want to experiment to see if wider stance gives you any advantage. But if what you want is speed of attack, you might be better off experimenting with the distribution of your weight between feet and the timing of the shifts.. Cheers!

Thanks for the info, Ill definitly experiment.