Katori Shinto Ryu

[ZealUK]

Koryu books have just started selling 'Katori Shinto Ryu - Warrior Tradition' by Otake Risuke.

I believe its a reworking of 'Deity and the Sword'.

Certainly of interest to anyone doing Katori Shinto Ryu, or those with a general interest in koryu bugei.

http://www.koryu.com/store/katori-shinto-ryu.html

[rikoseishin]

Yeah rotten luck for some of us who have already made our koryu purchase for the month, or two for that matter :cry:

[michaelm]

Do you know if it is much different from the original 'Diety and the Sword' series? Is there any additional content?

I already have the three bilingual volumes that were published in the 1980's. Bought them before this fancy interweb thingy. I had to special order them from our local Kinokuniya bookstore. Man, that took ages to arrive.


thanks
-Michael

[Kenshi]

Isnt it the same thing?

Apart from KSR people the books are pretty much useless in my opinion. A little bit of info, to be sure, but not worth the pain of buying them.

If you are a hard core koryu dude, or a koryu wanabee with money, then cool.

[michaelm]

Yup, wannabe. That sums me up pretty good. Although I prefer the term poseur.

Was just asking. Sheesh.

[fifthchamber]

The book has been re written entirely, new photographs, and extra chapters on each of the sub systems studied in the ryuha. If you have any interest at all in koryu and what koryu does, or means it makes sense to put money into a book worth having rather than the other stuff out there..
I don't train in the school, but that doesn't mean that I won't pick anything up from it if I read it...I don't need to try the techniques to want to improve the understanding behind them..
It's a book worth having, in a sea of books that aren't worth the effort it would be silly to not be interested in it. (The above comment does not apply if you don't give a monkey's left nut about koryu of course..).
Regards

[Kenshi]

Ben,

Have you seen it? Is it just full of pictures like the original?

[Fred27]

For those of you who have despaired of ever being able to acquire a copy, we have the ultimate, and far less expensive, solution: Katori Shinto-ryu: Warrior Tradition. It is based on the earlier three-volume work and has been re-edited, re-translated, and re-designed, with over 850 new photographs and new material on important aspects of the tradition. For those who want to read Otake Sensei's original words, the entire Japanese text is also included

Taken from Koryu.com.

[fifthchamber]

Hi George,
I have not yet seen it, but was informed that more work had been put into the writing and that the pictures had been redone and added too in order to provide a better explaination of what was meant in the text (The original books are not intended for instruction but neither is this one..).
I believe that the chapters have been added to considerably and rather than being a simple walk through of the kata chosen for display there has been more work put into what makes the Shinto Ryu special (Or what makes it Koryu)...
It also is meant to clarify a few things that have happened with the Ryuha recently and I hope it will..
Either way, it is one of "those" books I think...The three of four that make a little go a long way..
My regards..
(How is the weather in Kansai?It's crap here..Rain constantly and then 25 degree sunshine on my training days)..

[Kenshi]

Thanks for the info. Id like to see it before I buy it!!!!


(How is the weather in Kansai?It's crap here..Rain constantly and then 25 degree sunshine on my training days)..

It was crap earlier but its better now. I just hope its good for the rest of the week and the Kyoto Taikai (I skipped today..)

[fifthchamber]

They may eventually sell it in Kiinokuniya..It seems designed for the Japanese audience as well and so should certainly be sold here somewhere, and sometime..It might be worth waiting until you can skim it there for free..
Or you can buy a train ticket to Tokyo when mine arrives and I'll show you..I'll even throw in a pint or two..
Heh..Just improved today..Maybe sunny this weekend too..About bloody time..

[theicychameleon]

"or a koryu wanabee with money"

In a world full of Japanese cultural exports but almost devoid of Koryu dojo its not hard to be a Koryu wannabee. Money now, thats trickier. :)

That said theres a koryu dojo in Dublin of all places so who knows?

[Kenshi]

"or a koryu wanabee with money"

In a world full of Japanese cultural exports but almost devoid of Koryu dojo its not hard to be a Koryu wannabee. Money now, thats trickier. :)

Nothing wrong with being a wanabee or dabbler.. better than nothing... as long as your honest about what it is you are doing. Gotta start somewhere right?

Personally I feel that some kendo dojo fall into this dabbler category as well... but I think that its changing rapidly.

I also think its easier to "fake" knowledge in kata-based MA than it is in things like kendo, which is brutaly honest. Iai is an example where theres a lot of people who talk the talk, but cant walk it very well.

There is an interesting thread on ebudo about it called what is a koryu study group (http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37038). Ellis Amdur has a lot of authority on the forums as you can see.

All of the above applies in Japan as well as outside Japan btw.


That said theres a koryu dojo in Dublin of all places so who knows?

Iai?

[michaelm]

With both Ellis Amdur and Phil Relnick in our neck of the woods, its hard not to have your interest piqued about koryu. Albeit in Aiki-related circles or Japanese cultural events, I've had the chance to talk to both of these gentlemen a couple of times. I even participated in an Aikido seminar weekend hosted by Mr. Amdur even though I had not done Aikido in years. Man, talk about walk-the-walk, that guy is something else.

[theicychameleon]

"Quote:
Originally Posted by theicychameleon
That said theres a koryu dojo in Dublin of all places so who knows?

Iai?"

Our dojo teaches MJER. Thats Koryu right? I'm still doing Seitei though.

[ZealUK]

I wonder what makes people a dabbler or not. Is it the amount of times you train in a week? The age you started? Your level of skill? Your lineage and teachers?

Faking knowledge in kata based martial arts? Fair enough. It's hard to see what's really going on when people do kata. The sportive element of kendo certainly presents a platform for people to 'put up or shut up.' I don't see the same kind of thing with Iai competitions, which are boring as hell, frankly.

Still kata done properly can be terrifying when faced with a skillful aite.

Even in Japan koryu bugei are not something you can learn over a short period of time. It takes tens of years to become proficient under the best instructors, so imagine how difficult it becomes to understand things properly when seperated by thousands of miles. This is really the downfall of study groups, they are constantly trying to catch up with what is being taught in Japan. If only a few people can attend training in Japan, the ability of the rest of the study group depends on the ability of their ambassadors to relay and teach information correctly. If they have dedicated and skillful people bringing information back to them, then I don't see why they can't improve dramatically over time.

[Kenshi]

Our dojo teaches MJER. Thats Koryu right?

Thats a complicated debate.


I wonder what makes people a dabbler or not. Is it the amount of times you train in a week? The age you started? Your level of skill? Your lineage and teachers?

Exposure or lack of.


If they have dedicated and skillful people bringing information back to them, then I don't see why they can't improve dramatically over time.

I dont disagree - not a bit - but, as far as I can see, its been the Skosses, Fridays, etc, that have succeeded... ie those that have gone to Japan and taken back.. not the once-a-year-and-the-occassional-seminar-guys. But thats not to say that they cant succeed. I hope they do. Anyway, I think you know my position.

[ZealUK]

Got the book today. It does have a lot of photos, but the written content is pretty detailed by the looks of things. Of course having the Japanese and English on adjacent pages does essentially double the volume of the book, but I suppose reading it in English then in Japanese is nice.

I'll post my thoughts when I finish reading it.

[fifthchamber]

Mine arrived today too.

In addition to the original waza shown in the previous set there is extra information about the sojutsu, jujutsu, ninjutsu and several other areas of the ryuha that have not been discussed outside of the school before.

The pictures have all been retaken and the explaination has been rewritten in the new book. It looks to be a great book and as far as a resource to the school goes it would be hard to find another book that comes anywhere as close, including the previous 3 volume set.

The Jujutsu section is very interesting to me as well, being from a ryuha that dates from before my own but has some basic similarities in it...Interesting to see these things if only in pictures..

Regards.

[ZealUK]

Well I read it, and enjoyed it very much.

There are a great deal of photos as I mentioned before, nice to look at, but not immensely informative for those that don't practice Shinto Ryu. Notably the kuzushi for each set of kata are left out. There are some really nice shots of kamae in armour.

For me the most interesting parts of the book were the authors comments on suitable swords and the entire section on the esoteric teachings of the school. For me this really gave a good insight into the heart of a well preserved koryu art. The shuriken, ninjutsu and jujutsu parts gave a nice little taste of some of the more advanced curriculum as well.